How much should I offer?

[JoshT]

Re: How much should I offer?

im not telling you to buy it. but look at my signature. i have the EXACT same boat. 1989 1700 fish and ski spectrum 1700.

Thanks, coming from a Spectrum Owner it means a lot. Definitely looking over your threads when I get home.

Yo. engines that don't run are worth nothing. Buying one based on something someone says without hearing it run is like buying "a pig in a poke"

Ya, I think I realized that, its the reason for this thread. If I hadn't already I did in the many posts before yours that said teh same thing. If motor won't run then it can be assumed toast, dead weight, etc. and adds nothing to the value. That's why I asked how much you would offer assuming that the motor is in such a condition. I still appreaciate you taking the time to leave your input.

...that parts list shows just how much can and eventually will go bad with Force motors, which can run just fine, but my experience tells me they are lowest end motor you can own, and they are prone to break, and they can be tough to service. I have not replaced that much stuff on all my boats, over the last 25 years!!! and I've owned maybe 10 of them. From big block I/0's to little 40 Hp Mercs on glorified row boats. It's a buyers market, and there is no way I would buy a broken boat, with no sea trial.

Thanks for the reply. I was spacifically trying to not ask anything about the motor in this thread, got another thread in the force forum for that subject. The feedback I got there pretty much said the same about them being the bottom of the barrell. Bottom of the barrell motor is fine for getting me started out on this. Sooner or later (preferibly the latter) it will get replaced with somethign bigger and better. If I buy the boat it will be a project, but I intend for it to be a long term working project. In truth everything I've bought used, from my house to my bike to my trucks, I bought knowing it would be a project and I'm fine with that. I actually enjoy that to an extent but I prefer a working project, AKA one you can still use while working on it a little along. As for your 10 boats over the last 25 years, you must not have kept any of them long. If you keep any machine long enough it will need parts, it's not a matter of if but when. It may not need them all at once but it will need them.

 

[lncoop]

Re: How much should I offer?

Josh, the pros and cons have been pretty well covered, so there's no point in going any further with them, but I think what most of the guys are saying is 1900 bucks is a whole bunch of money for a 23 year old off brand project boat. I understand the hull is in really nice shape, but this is a project boat. For not much (if any) more you should be able to find a complete rig for that. If you buy this one you'll be rolling the dice unless you can get him down to a price that reflects only the value of the boat and trailer, and that price is not $1900 IMO.

 

[cgd7777777]

Re: How much should I offer?

May the force be with you not behind you!

 

[JoshT]

Re: How much should I offer?

Josh, the pros and cons have been pretty well covered, so there's no point in going any further with them, but I think what most of the guys are saying is 1900 bucks is a whole bunch of money for a 23 year old off brand project boat. I understand the hull is in really nice shape, but this is a project boat. For not much (if any) more you should be able to find a complete rig for that. If you buy this one you'll be rolling the dice unless you can get him down to a price that reflects only the value of the boat and trailer, and that price is not $1900 IMO.

That's why this was in my first post: "If you were buying it as a hull and trailer knowing that a wasted hunk of motor was hanging on back, what would you offer?" With the answers to this question I'll be able to try to get him down to that kind of price. I never intended to pay 1900 even if the motor was running. You know as well as I do that people try to sell high, but usually can be talked down if you try. More knowledge I have better chance I'll have of getting the price down, or figuring out the owner is a/an (pick your word) I don't want to deal with. Been looking at craigslist and 14' jon boats with motors seem to be starting at $2000, from there it only goes up as it gets bigger. The similar boats "for not much more" I see on there are poster children for rotted decks and transoms. Well there is one other that seems like it could be a good deal but I don't really care for it. That said I did spot this one:

!!NICE!! 16' Glass Master Fish And Ski!! Redoced from $1650 - $1450
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Date: 2012-06-07, 12:56PM EDT
Reply to: (removed) [Errors when replying to ads?]
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I have a nic, clean 16' GlassMaster boat for sale. It has a good running 85 hp Mercury engine...just had the carbs cleaned and a new water pump. New floor and has 3 seats. VEERY good trailer with working lights and pulls good. Has tilt trim that works great too! Call or text (removed) . Thanx and God bless!

Maybe I could talk both of them down to around 1000 and combine the two.

May the force be with you not behind you!

 

[catfishcarl99]

Re: How much should I offer?

i wouldnt count the motor out either. if you do decided to get it and get him down to a fair price that motor might be fixable with used parts for $200 or less. theres coils on ebay right as we speak for $19.99 free shipping. with make offer. could be cheaper lol. the second is a current auction for a cd module $89 or best offer. now imagine thats all that wrong. bingo. your motor is running for $100. any non running motor can be a money pit. because its a force most will say junk. a non running merc is no different IMO.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Force-Ignit..._Accessories_Gear&hash=item2a18528fbf&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Force-..._Accessories_Gear&hash=item4604347e4a&vxp=mtr

by the way. if you get the piece of junk for cheap ill give ya $100 for the top.

as far as a project boat goes. if the floor aint rotton all you need to do is diagnose the engine. WHERES the project? the tran is all 100% alum so theres nothing there to fix either. im not a machanic and i work on my force myself. going fishing in a bit and ill take some vid on the motor and such for you. helps when you can see something in operation. but somehow i would want to find out if it leaked too. if your close to a ramp ide ask him to allow you to back it in and test it for leaks. it is a rivet hull.

i cooked the paint on mine 4-5 years ago. buzzer was unhooked by prev owner. and it overheated till it lost power and stalled. smoke rolled. the next day it sounded horrible when i cranked it. thought for sure it blew. took head off. everything was fine except for gasket. new gasket was $40 and it fired righ up. of coures a new impeller and buzzer hooked back up and i even installed a dumby light.

 

[Steve Mahler]

Re: How much should I offer?

Here in Upstate ny, any aluminum boat with trailer and good looking interior (no motor) would go for 2 grand. They practically worship aluminum boats around here. An early 70s starcraft with virtually no interior would start at a grand.

Personally (I own a force 50 BTW) I would offer 1500 and use a couple grand to buy a nice used 60-70 hp 2 stroke.

 

[greenbush future]

Re: How much should I offer?

For $4500.00 I'll sell you my 96/ 19 foot Spectrum with a 90 Merc on it. I just re-wired the entire fuse block, and it's a nice entry level boat. That $4500.000 is exactly what I value the motor at, and maybe the trailer, which is functional but not nice. The boat is not worth too much IMO, but it's a functional project boat, gets me on the water safe. Have fun checking them all out, there are tons of boats for sale.

 

[catfishcarl99]

Re: How much should I offer?

got a couple vids i got to load up and post in a bit.

ok. everyone kees saying this motor is broke. i always had a different idea of broke. broken rod and block, or shattered piston, or scored cylinder walls. if and the key is if the sellers correct and its a cd box. $100 and 15 min its not broke. so if i take a 2012 merc and remove spark plugs it becomes broke? i cannot see why every one is so quick to toss the powerplant. i have been experimenting props today as mine got about 23mph with me and 20 gallons of gas. me 275 and 160 lbs fuel. 13.5 pitch. today i stuck on a 11.5 pitch with 20 gallons and me which coulpe weeks back would push me23mph pushed me 26-27. the 13.5 was bogging the rpm's and reducing preformance. this prop picked up a few hundred rpms as well as 4-5 mph. gonna get a 10 pitch next to try.

many of good deals resulted in something not working and being simple to fix. not every case but i got a cs 650evl echo chainsaw 64.2cc from the 80's back when the saw body was alum not plastic 4 years ago. it wouldnt start at the garage sale. asking $25. i said $15 is what ill pay. SOLD. its now got a 24" bar and will idle till the tank runs dry and saw 4' diam trees down. cleaned the carb.

if you can get it at the right price you being a mechanic should have little trouble getting it going. ask him who the machanic that diagnosed the cd is and call him. below is a pic of the transom on the inside. you can see just above the battery boxes the motor bolts. and youll see no wood.

 

[roscoe]

Re: How much should I offer?

Hmmm, seem strange that they made an all aluminum transom in 1989, then went back to putting wood in them 2 years later.

I know, cause I drilled the holes in it to mount the motor bracket.

 

[catfishcarl99]

Re: How much should I offer?

unless theres wood inside the alum. i see no wood. the pic above is at the transom from inside. i had my whole floor out and the rear inside board out and seen not a chunk of wood anywhere.


first two pics were from tim wagners post of his when gutted. if thers wood i didnt see any when i did mine.

 

[catfishcarl99]

Re: How much should I offer?

kind of a pain couldnt put key in to choke with cam in hand after i adjusted and choked it fired up.

 

[birdgod]

Re: How much should I offer?

Got this boat myself with the 85hp ob. I paid $850.
Been using it for 3 yeah.

 

[lncoop]

Re: How much should I offer?

Carl, what you've done with yours is very impressive. Josh, sounds like you've got the right attitude about it, and I hope it all goes your way. Good luck with whatever you decide, and be sure to let us know how it turns out.

 

[greenbush future]

Re: How much should I offer?

Carl,

Really nice work on your boat, looks like the boat is doing exactly what you want it to. Your stern configuration is completely different from what I have on my 19, the transom and "no wood" must be on the earlier models, because my boat is aluminum, skinned (inside) with a wood transom sandwiched inbetween, which runs the entire length of the back of the boat. I dont have any rot on my transom yet, but the floor will need to be replaced eventually. I also have wood for all my storage compartment lids, both pannels next to driver and passenger seats, and my entire console(s) on both sides of the walk through,-its all wood on mine. What do you think is behind the aluminum skin on your transom? Maybe composite or what?

I like the glass modification too, gives you more fishing abilities, and that's what I mostly use mine for too.

 

[catfishcarl99]

Re: How much should I offer?

ya if theres wood between the alum on trans i cant see it. the bottom 12" where the bilge pump and recirculation pass thru hull and plug is, is plate alum. about 12" up it steps out to 3" thick or so. thought there was a alum channel the engine bolted through. if the void is wood its far enough off the waterline that only way it could get wet is if the water is high enough to fill the sub floor and be above the carpet floor. im in the process of fine tuning my prop pitch to get most speed /proformance out of mine. it hit 29 when i first got it. lost the prop in lake. since then i put a hydrofoil on the motor, be easy i was young.:facepalm: been getting 21-23 mph out of it. came here to diagnose my cdi i fried and been fine tuning everything thanks to the combined knowlage of the members. steelspike gave me som info in the prop section about my engine. i had the top end pitch for my boat of a 13.5 pitch on it. the spare i got this spring on ebay was a 12.5. and i had a dinged up 11.5 from a garage sale that ide never tried. i had no idea what pitches did to a boat. yesterday i went out when i filmed the above to "find sweet spot" or at least to begin. i put the 11.5 on it and gained 4-5 mph and since removed the hydrofoil last week. the 13.5 on the under powered engine to boat ratio was bogging me down. and the lower pitch had a much better effect and gained me hole shoot speed and top end. i want to get a 10 pitch now and see if it gets a bit more speed. and next trip im gonna tryn the 12.5. im posting results in the prop section and ill link it here for the OP to see too. do you know how to use a mulit meter? being a machanic im sure you do theres a cd trouble shooting guide for this motor on cdi electronics, you might be able to diagnose the engine so you know if its the cdi or worse or more. http://www.marineengine.com/parts/technical_information/cdi_116-8301.pdf by the way thanks guys. no im not offended. but i like mine. had it since 04 and i wouldnt sell mine for 2$2000.00. heres a link josht to the prop test thread. uploading the other speed test vids vids now.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=552392

got them vids up on that link to the prop thread. click if ya all want to see the force be with me.

 

[birdgod]

Re: How much should I offer?

Carl, as you can see I have the same boat as you, only different is that it as a 85 hp OB. You mention that your 50 hp can run about 30 mph? My 85hp can nly get me to 31mph. Do you base your speed on the GPS?

 

[catfishcarl99]

Re: How much should I offer?

Carl, as you can see I have the same boat as you, only different is that it as a 85 hp OB. You mention that your 50 hp can run about 30 mph? My 85hp can nly get me to 31mph. Do you base your speed on the GPS?

i have an on board speedo, runs off water pressure. i took my tom tom with me when i did the prop test. it was really close. when i ran 25 tom tom fluxuated between 24-25. so pretty close. you would prob get a lil more speed with a different pitch prop.

 

[birdgod]

Re: How much should I offer?

i have an on board speedo, runs off water pressure. i took my tom tom with me when i did the prop test. it was really close. when i ran 25 tom tom fluxuated between 24-25. so pretty close. you would prob get a lil more speed with a different pitch prop.

Yeah. I am using the original prop. it is 14.25 and 17 pitch. My WOT rpm is cwithin the factory spec so i didn't change it. My GPS speed for 2 people onboard is 32mph.

 

[rabristol]

Re: How much should I offer?

Please run from this one. I had a brand new boat, with a 50 hp Force. Junk is all I can say. From day one that engine had issues. I kept taking in back and they said its "good to go" NOT!!!!!!!!! I will never buy a boat with a Force! If you do, plan on using the iboat forum a lot and using your ATM card for parts and make sure you get a TOWBOAT policy. Its not that I dislike them, I hate them!

 

[JoshT]

Re: How much should I offer?

Once again I appreciate all of the input. I have decided to pass on this, though I still think it could have been a great deal. Hopefully between my three threads there is some information that will help someone in the future. I know it helped me, but it wasn't what made my decision. After talking with my folks and thinking about it for the last few days I realized two things.

First, I didn't want this boat to use it I, wanted it to have it. While I did like the boat and do enjoy boating, I really don't have time to for it at the current. Too much work, part time student some of the year, a truck I'm trying to rebuild, and a house I want to fix up. I don't need to buy a boat just to have it sit here in the yard not getting used and rotting out on me. I've already done that with a motorcycle I need to fix back up so I can sell, should have learned my lesson with it. Once a couple of those things are out of the way it may be time to think about getting a boat again.

Second that boat isn't really set up for what I want to do. What really got me back on the kick of wanting a boat was a recent ocean fishing trip. I'd like to be able to run what ever I bought in marshes and coastal waterways (which the 17 foot aluminum would probably be ok for) and possibly get out into bays and maybe even in the ocean a little. Pretty much from what I'm reading on here I what probably want is a glass hull for the added weight, and something closer to 19'. It may be a little small for the ocean stuff but a little big side for the local lakes, and I have to be able to use it for either or its not happening. My only main concern about something like that would be my ability to pull it. Both of my trucks are Ford Rangers. Ones a 99 4wd 4.0L with tow package, the other is my project a 86' 2wd that's getting lowered but also getting a 5.0L V8, stronger transmission, and beefier axle. I'm not too sure about using either to pull something that size. I've got plenty of time to read the forums and decide what will suit be best, and by then I may have a bigger truck to pull with.

Rabristol, don't mean any offense here, but you messed up on that one. I don't care how cheap those motors are if it was properly cared for when new it shouldn't have problems, and if it did they should be fixable by any competent shop. I'm going to assume that you did properly care for and maintain the motor, so that puts it on the shop. If they tell you it's good and you have problems again give then a second chance then go elsewhere, don't just keep taking it back. By the second time it should have been obvious that they were incompetent and didn't deserve your business. If the problems really couldn't be fixed on a brand new boat the dealer/manufacturer should have been involved in getting you another brand new boat or motor as that would have been covered under federal lemon laws (if you are in the US).