Hydraulic surge brakes, Should I junk them and go electric?

[poconojoe]

My Karavan boat trailer axle is rated at 3520 pounds and has surge brakes from the factory. According to the boat manufacturer, the dry weight of boat and trailer combined is 2905 pounds.

The surge brakes don't seem to be working. I had the drums off to pack the bearings and during the reinstall I adjusted the shoes. With the wheels back on and one still on a jack stand, I gave it a good spin. I attempted to manually push in the tongue actuator and the wheel kept spinning. I could only push the actuator in about an inch or so. Does that seem right?

I have doubted these brakes for a while, but when trailering I don't feel any danger. It always feels quite stable, even on the mountainous curvy roads I travel. My state, PA, requires brakes if the trailer axle weight is rated above 3,000 pounds.

I'm very mechanically inclined with the exception of bleeding brakes. That has always been my achilles heel. I just hate bleeding brakes with a passion and I've tried many methods. I'd rather rebuild an engine than bleed brakes.

So, what is everyone's opinion on converting to electric brakes? My Chevy Silverado has the integrated trailer controller. I have read mixed opinions concerning marine applications. I only boat in fresh water, so is that really considered marine?

The cost to convert is very reasonable at just under $200 for everything. Complete brake assemblies, battery breakaway unit with built in charger and 7 pin wiring.

If I do this, I'll have to weld the actuator to stop it from moving during braking. That's not a problem, I have a MIG welder.

Should I change over? Opinions, suggestions...Thanks as always, Joe

 

[poconojoe]

Oh, I want add that the year of the trailer is 2003. The trailer in general is in fantastic shape. It's a painted one, not galvanized and has only seen fresh water to the best of my knowledge (I'm the third owner, I purchased it in 2013). It's garage kept during non boating seasons.

When looking into the master cylinder, it looks a bit rusty, another reason to upgrade.

 

[jimmbo]

Electrics sound wonderful, until the Electrical Components start Corroding, especially when used in Salt Water.

 

[76SeaRay]

If you go electric then if you change vehicles or someone else tows it, you have to have a brake controller in the other vehicle.

 

[Alumarine]

When you tried to manually activate the brakes were you using anything for leverage?
You can't do it properly with just your hands. Same goes for bleeding.

 

[jakwi]

I've seriously considered electric, though I haven't made the jump. When I redo my brakes I will, and I am in salt water. If you spend some time on google, you will find a lot of people tell you how it will simply not work for long, and then a hand full of posts on random forums where someone tried it and swears by it, even in salt water.

My perspective is that electric breaks are no more than an electrical coil. This is really no different than regular light bulbs from an electrical standpoint, different size coil for a different purpose. If lights will work after dunking there is no reason electric brakes won't. The rest of the sytem is mechanical, no different than surge brakes. If you don't maintain them, then they will fail within a season or two. take them apart, grease the pivots once a season. Better yet. if the coil does go bad you can replace the coil for about $30 each.

Add to that, that electric brakes are way cheaper than surge brakes, about $150 per axle I believe. Assuming they last even 1/3 as long you would still break even for your money, though not your time to install them.

My guess is that they will work fine. and it's simply the electrical magic that scares people away from using them. In PA I'm guessing that you are not in salt water, so If I were you I'd do it. Worst case scenario you'll have to redo your system in a year or so, but I find that really unlikely.

 

[poconojoe]

When you tried to manually activate the brakes were you using anything for leverage?
You can't do it properly with just your hands. Same goes for bleeding.

How or what would I use a lever to test it? Any good ideas?
I thought about using a ratchet strap or a come-along.
Then there's the fact that the inside of the master cylinder looks rusty.

I'm ready to abandon all that hydraulic mess and go electric, but some sellers state they are not for marine use. Again, I only dunk in fresh water.

 

[poconojoe]

I've seriously considered electric, though I haven't made the jump. When I redo my brakes I will, and I am in salt water. If you spend some time on google, you will find a lot of people tell you how it will simply not work for long, and then a hand full of posts on random forums where someone tried it and swears by it, even in salt water.

My perspective is that electric breaks are no more than an electrical coil. This is really no different than regular light bulbs from an electrical standpoint, different size coil for a different purpose. If lights will work after dunking there is no reason electric brakes won't. The rest of the sytem is mechanical, no different than surge brakes. If you don't maintain them, then they will fail within a season or two. take them apart, grease the pivots once a season. Better yet. if the coil does go bad you can replace the coil for about $30 each.

Add to that, that electric brakes are way cheaper than surge brakes, about $150 per axle I believe. Assuming they last even 1/3 as long you would still break even for your money, though not your time to install them.

My guess is that they will work fine. and it's simply the electrical magic that scares people away from using them. In PA I'm guessing that you are not in salt water, so If I were you I'd do it. Worst case scenario you'll have to redo your system in a year or so, but I find that really unlikely.

I'm ready to go for it and have read that some boat trailer manufacturers are starting to go with electrics, but there are still some that say no. Are they just old school and not up to date with the knowledge of today's electrics?

And like you are basically saying...what do I have to lose?

 

[mike_i]

I like disc brakes.

 

[harringtondav]

I helped my pal fix his 25 yr old Heritage trailer brakes. He changed the master cyl. To bleed we used a pry bar (crow bar with a point instead of the hook). Two man job. He pumped until resistance and held. I bled until the bar bottomed out and closed the bleeder. Repeat until bubble free fluid. Then repeat on the other side. I kept reminding him to not let the reservoir run dry or we would have a do over.

Gravity bleed may work. Back the trailer down a steep grade. Open both bleeders and pour in fluid until the bleed is bubble free.

BTW I have electric drum brakes on my trailer and I love them. Dial in the gain, no back up issues. Fresh water, but I'm not sure that's a concern. Sealed magnets on the actuator lever/cam. But if you have hyd. discs, I'd spend the time and money to make them work.

 

[JASinIL2006]

I have electric drum brakes on my trailer and I really like them. I don't boat in salt water ever, but I have heard that drum brakes generally (electric or otherwise) don't last so long in salt or brackish water.

Electric brakes are very easy to install. I just replaced mine, including the brakes, hubs, and drums. Do yourself a favor and get Dexter Nevr-Adjust brakes if you this route. No annual adjustment of the brakes. They look to be a very nice system. (I just installed mine, and they seem to work great.) The single-axle brake kit for my Dexters cost $171. I went ahead and got new drum and hub assemblies (with installed, pre-greased bearings!) for another $123. I added a breakaway kit (with built in battery charger) to apply trailer brakes if the trailer ever breaks free for $72. You also need wire to connect the brakes to the trailer plug/wiring loom; most online trailer stores sell this by the foot.

Were it not for the breakaway box (a Curt model, with horrible, incorrect, stupid wiring directions - never buying another Curt product), the whole install would have taken less than 2 hours.

Anyone who says electric brakes won't work in water, or will short out, or anything similar simply doesn't know what they are talking about. The brakes don't short out (or fail) any more than the brake lights on your trailer fail if they get wet. You will need a brake controller for your tow vehicle, but that is true for any braking system except surge brakes.

I've never liked surge brakes when I've towed with them. The electric brakes are much smoother and when set properly, the trailer and tow vehicle brake as one unit. Really nice.

Hope this helps!

 

[poconojoe]

I have electric drum brakes on my trailer and I really like them. I don't boat in salt water ever, but I have heard that drum brakes generally (electric or otherwise) don't last so long in salt or brackish water.

Electric brakes are very easy to install. I just replaced mine, including the brakes, hubs, and drums. Do yourself a favor and get Dexter Nevr-Adjust brakes if you this route. No annual adjustment of the brakes. They look to be a very nice system. (I just installed mine, and they seem to work great.) The single-axle brake kit for my Dexters cost $171. I went ahead and got new drum and hub assemblies (with installed, pre-greased bearings!) for another $123. I added a breakaway kit (with built in battery charger) to apply trailer brakes if the trailer ever breaks free for $72. You also need wire to connect the brakes to the trailer plug/wiring loom; most online trailer stores sell this by the foot.

Were it not for the breakaway box (a Curt model, with horrible, incorrect, stupid wiring directions - never buying another Curt product), the whole install would have taken less than 2 hours.

Anyone who says electric brakes won't work in water, or will short out, or anything similar simply doesn't know what they are talking about. The brakes don't short out (or fail) any more than the brake lights on your trailer fail if they get wet. You will need a brake controller for your tow vehicle, but that is true for any braking system except surge brakes.

I've never liked surge brakes when I've towed with them. The electric brakes are much smoother and when set properly, the trailer and tow vehicle brake as one unit. Really nice.

Hope this helps!

Yes, your post definitely helps! Thanks for the encouragement!

It's also a good idea to use heat shrink butt connectors. The ones that have the adhesive inside that seals them. This way all your connections are water tight to prevent corrosion. They have some really cool ones that have a solder ring inside that melts with your heat gun. So, it's like a three in one. The solder, the heat shrink and the sealing adhesive. No crimping.

 

[bruceb58]

Any drum brakes, be it electric or hydraulic, suck if you dunk in salt water. It's why i went disc with electric/hydraulic.

 

[Fed]

Mechanical cable discs would be on more than 90% of the trailers here (Aus) but I'm not sure if they comply with your regs.
Pretty much maint free and bullet proof.

 

[MRS]

on one of my older boat trailers had surge brakes that never worked right went to electric brakes and loved them. Towed behind a older motor home and with the electric brakes set right helped stop the motor home better than it stopped without the boat behind it. No troubles for three years before I sold it. Drilled the trailer part that slides and added two 3/4" bolts and was good to go wish I knew how to weld would have done that but bolts worked good for me.

 

[poconojoe]

on one of my older boat trailers had surge brakes that never worked right went to electric brakes and loved them. Towed behind a older motor home and with the electric brakes set right helped stop the motor home better than it stopped without the boat behind it. No troubles for three years before I sold it. Drilled the trailer part that slides and added two 3/4" bolts and was good to go wish I knew how to weld would have done that but bolts worked good for me.

Thanks for sharing your experience, it definitely helps.

 

[indybleck]

Had the same problem on one of my trailers, found out the cylinder was rusted, took apart cleaned the rust off the small ram worked great. I've done electric also on another trailer, these were really nice, never failed here in Michigan, I always unplugged them before launch. The trailer I have now I replaced the hubs last year, got a good deal worked great til end of year. Got it out this spring and was ready to go electric until I adjusted with just a little drag as I spun the wheel, working like a charm now. I always know when they are working at the first stop sign. Also when I went electric I took master cylinder and coupler right off and replaced with a straight solid one. No welding the coupler, no bolts nothing to worry about on the coupler.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Yes, your post definitely helps! Thanks for the encouragement!

It's also a good idea to use heat shrink butt connectors. The ones that have the adhesive inside that seals them. This way all your connections are water tight to prevent corrosion. They have some really cool ones that have a solder ring inside that melts with your heat gun. So, it's like a three in one. The solder, the heat shrink and the sealing adhesive. No crimping.

You know, I tried those this year while I was rewiring the trailer and I found them to be a bigger pain than they were worth. I could get a good strong connection when I was working at a bench, but when I was upside down on a creeper, trying to join two uncooperative wires under the trailer, holding a torch or heat gun, I had much more difficulty. Either I didn't get a good solder joint or the plastic sleeve got too hot and burned. They were even tougher to use in areas were I was making several connections.

I ended using standard weatherproof crimped butt joints that I then covered with liquid tape for good measure. They have worked very well.

 

[jakwi]

I've used those solder splices and I'm with you, they are nothing to write home about. If it's what you have twist the wires together, and presolder, then used the heat gun to shrink. I much prefer the environmental butt splices by raychem. I used those in aviation, and while they are a bit expensive they just don't fail.

 

[Starcraft5834]

my 2 c. why junk surge... less apt to fail due to electrical short... ive only had surge.. ive got 2200 lbs of toon and motor sitting on a new tandem Shorlandr with 4 surge breaks.. gtw 5500lb capable.. works perfectly for me