Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

[kimchee]

Okay, thanks to everyone here, I made it through the crisis, for now... When I last posted, I had mentioned that my starter seemed like it was dealing with a locked engine, which you all later identified as HYDROLOCK. You all were gracious enough to tell me to first pull all the spark plugs IMMEDIATELY (as I was in salt water), which upon doing so, resulted in a waterfall out of the starboard 2nd plug, and upon further pull outs, I noticed more wetness in the portside plugs as well... Once I cleared away the water, with several cranks of the engine, I reinstalled the plugs, and the engine turned over nicely with a large burst preceding the start, so then I let the engine run for a good 15 minutes... At this point, I figure... MISSION ACCOMPLISHED --- Later to discover NOT QUITE...<br /><br />Next, I goto check the oil level.. Where I discover that it has grown (I'm thinking : Huh??) So, I goto pump some oil out, and this CHOCOLATE MILK comes out... Damn,... at this point I'm thinking I am screwed... <br /><br />I figure, the salt water got into the oil pan, so it would seem that I should pump out as much as I can, as many of you all recommended... SO I DID, and I left it...<br /><br />I came home, and did alot of reading on iboats, and I have concluded, that although it is difficult for many of you to diagnose through words, I have rationalized many of the posts by simply saying the problems I am describeed are most likely (85%) chance due to the EXHAUST RISER, BLOCK, MANIFOLD, (and their gaskets)...<br /><br />OKAY, at this point I am in over my head, but I figure, what the hey... You all have gotten me this far... So then I proceded to remove the steering assembly, which was attached to the starboard exhaust riser... EASY, next removed the riser, HARD (due to the elbow) [who would have figured there was a CANON inside the elbow]. Eventually I got it out... I proceded to remove the block, but it wouldn't come loose, so I just removed the entire block and manifold unit...<br /><br />Now, I goto the marine shop to find out that, the riser, block, and manifold would cost me $400 each side... How do I know it all three parts need to be replaced? I figured, from reading you all will tell me, it's not worth finding out, just replace them all, right??? Well, I figured as much, and I will be proceeding to that next step...<br /><br />I would like to be frugal in trying out the aftermarket kits, can any of you recommend one? and I notice they usually don't have blocks in between the riser, and manifold... Thus prompting me to think, is there enough space to mount the steering assembly???<br /><br />I have gotten quotes of $460 complete on e-bay for 2 kits:<br /><br /> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4576700887&fromMakeTrack=true <br /><br />If I but a sierra OEM kit, it would cost me: $750+ for both sides... Please advise

 

[Don S]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

You are messing with salt water, and it will destroy an engine quickly. To save yourself some money and time, get a REAL marine tech to pickle the engine and locate the problem.<br />It could be many things, but with salt water, you are flat running out of time.<br />DO you have mechanical breakdown insurance?

 

[f_inscreenname]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

$400.00 a side is cheap! I just paid $1150.00 a side.<br /> As for just buying a part of the system, not a good idea. The same water and exhaust gasses go through all the parts. If one has failed the others will soon enough. <br /> Last change your oil again and again with new filters. You may also want to run a clean out through the motor during one of the oil changes.

 

[Dave NCarolina]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

I didnt notice what size engine you have but I just went through the same thing with my GM 350.<br />I purchased both manifolds and Risers complete with gaskets for 430.00 both sides.<br />Did you put any type of oil in the cylinders?<br />You better act quick.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

I would plan on multiple oil changes until the oil is clean. I replaced the OE one piece manifolds on my OMC V-6 2 years ago, cost 377 per side, I got a spare set this winter because I heard they were getting hard to find, had to pay 460 per side for those, that is the cost of boating in salt water!<br />BTW you can figure on having to do this about every 4-5 years, you have to check the risers/manifolds for flaking rust, if you see that replace em. Only way to avoid some of it (manifolds) is to get an engine with full closed cooling next time. Raw water cooled in salt, you think of manifolds like tires on a car, they have a finite life span. Cheaper than a new engine!

 

[kimchee]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

Thanks everyone for your replies....<br />I am a pharmacist by trade... So if there is anything I can do for you as far as that is concerned, please feel free to e-mail me at teabag1680@yahoo.com<br />Don S. and DaveNC, you both are stressing the hell out of me... Can you please go easy on me!!!<br />I respect your comments and thus have been trying to work as quickly as I can... But simply put... Can 3-4 days really turn my engine into crap?<br />I can already hear Don saying "HELL YEAH !!!"<br />I have read alot of previous posts, and it seems to be the concencus that I should just "not take my time."<br />To Don S.: "I live in a city of cut-throat money mongers" If I went to a mechanic with the current state of the engine, he would rape me [thinking, I was in over my head, and here's his opportunity]. AND, it is not like he would stop what he was doing and jump on my boat, I have 500 boats in my marina... PLEASE DON & OTHERS HELP !!!<br /><br />Currently, I have removed the pure salt water from the cylinders [when I fully cranked it], I stopped the engine, and pumped out the chocolate milk, and emptied the oil filter. I left the oil filter and oil pan empty, till I get there on Monday morning... I plan to reassemble the starboard&port manifold, and crank it [with fingers crossed]. If all goes well, I am set !!!<br /><br />I assumed I had removed the harmful water when I cranked the engine? Didn't I? The only harmful water left in the "residual choc. milk" in the engine, which I plan on attacking next, after I fill it up with fresh oil, replace the manifolds, and change the filters. DON & OTHERS, I CAN'T GIVE UP NOW, I am in too deep. Besides, from reading many of the other posts, it doesn't seem like this is a repair which is impossible? Is it? Then again, this is a mechanics forum... yikes.<br /><br />f_inscreenname mentioned moter flush, which I plan on doings, however is there any other ideas?<br /><br />One more thing, the manifold is very heavy, and when I removed it, it didn't seem like there was a bracket for me to rest it on when I reinstall the new one... How do I insure that the manifold is properly centered with the engine, since the only thing holding it in place is my hands, and glue before I screw it in? I can already hear you guys saying "VERY CAREFULLY "<br /><br />THANKS EVERYONE !!! YOU ALL ARE GREAT !!!!<br />To date: I have saved over thousands of dollars because of iboats...

 

[tommays]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

i will go easy but yes 24 hours can ruin a motor in saltwater<br /><br /><br />the big problem here is that you have no idea HOW the water got IN this needs to be known or you will just fill it up again when you run it<br /><br />so you need to protect the motor ASAP<br /><br />you need to get in clean oil and at least crank over the motor with no plugs and the kill switch off to get get oil pumped into the bearings and other areas to stop any rusting<br /><br /><br />and pump oil into each sparkplug hole and crank it some more to coat the parts to stop rusting <br /><br /><br />if you luckey this will give you some time to find the cause of the water getting in <br /><br />tommays

 

[Dave NCarolina]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

Kimchee I'm not trying to put a scare into you but I have had several mechanics tell me a teaspoon of salt water in an engine can seize it in a few days.<br />I imeadiately pulled my plugs and drenched each cylinder with Tranny fluid. THEN you could take your time.<br />As far as the mainifolds heres what I did. I put the risers on the manifolds then slipped the risers in the rubber elbows to help hold them in place while I put the bolts in. Not enough room in there for more than one person to work. Its not easy to do but it can be done.<br />I ran my boat for the first time this morning, she ran great, never skipped a beat.<br />Planed out nice and had great power.<br />Good luck but get oil in them cylinders.

 

[rebars1]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

If your manifolds use bolts to the block, you could get a threaded stud (same as bolt but with without a head) and temporarily install it as a pin to support the manifold while you are getting the first bolts in. Then remove the stud and install the proper bolt. It's difficult to hold the manifold and gasket in place while starting the first bolt without some help. I have also use wood blocks to prop it in place until bolted.

 

[SeaRay24Sorrento]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

Not a bad idea to pull the valve cover at this point and get a look into part of the engine. I went thru the same experience as you but hydrolocked and bent a rod trying to flush out salt water in driveway before manifold teardown. It was my manifold to riser gasket that failed as well. That chocolate milk caused alot of surface rust on everything in less than a week! Tomorrow I'm off to the machine shop with a truck full of motor parts to get his opinion on what is still good. If you get her running keep changing out that oil till you get rid of that milky residue. I also heard running tranny fluid helps the process.

 

[SeaRay24Sorrento]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

Also check out this site for manifolds, I had purchased from them for a Ford 302 a couple years back. Their price and shipping couldn't be beat! http://www.ebasicpower.com/exhaust/index.php

 

[Davenc]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

Originally posted by SeaRay24Sorrento:<br /> Also check out this site for manifolds, I had purchased from them for a Ford 302 a couple years back. Their price and shipping couldn't be beat! http://www.ebasicpower.com/exhaust/index.php

Thats where I purchased mine. Luckily I live an hour away from them. They are the cheapest of all marinas on the NC coast and nice people to boot.

 

[steve n carol]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

kimchee, whatever oil you put into the cylinders. DON'T turn it over with the spark plugs installed....LEAVE THEM OUT! and turn the motor over....no it will not start. Yes, it will "spurt" oil out of each hole. Drape a rag over them if you want, out of the way any moving parts, like a fanbelt/alt. etc.<br />use about three tablespoons for each cylinder. Use a syringe. You don't need to re-install the exhaust manifolds to do this. In fact...while the exhaust manifolds are off, and after you oil the cylinders, spray WD-40 onto the exposed exhaust valve stems, (you'll be able to see them inside the cylinder head). The engine will smoke, from the oil, when you first start it. <br /><br />Now, I don't know the answer to my next statement/question. Others please help me out. <br /> <br />I am thinking you're in a slip in the marina, <br />Q), If the manifolds/risers are removed, could Kimchee sink his boat? It's a water level thing...sl

 

[kimchee]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

YIKES !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Davenc]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

I dont think the boat will take on water, mine didnt. I didnt disconnect the intake hose to my pump. I dont see any reason he has to disconnect any either. If he does he needs to keep the hose higher than the water line.

 

[Davenc]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

Oh kimchee, I purchased a five dollar oil can at my local hardware storeu to sqirt the tranny fluid in my cylinders. It held a lot of fluid and made it easy with the long tube it has on it.

 

[bamadave]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

Kimchee, Don is not trying to scare the hell out of you. He,Tommays, and bondo, are the best there is when asking for advice. They don't pull any punches and tell it like it is. The thing that bothers me the most with your problem is after you do all of this work, is it going to be in vain. With you doing the work, it's going to be a crap shoot. You mention being raped by the mechanic, it might be cheaper in the long run to have him do the work. We have all learned one way or the other it's better (and cheaper sometimes) to have someone else more knowledgeable to do something that we have never done before. When it comes to my family's safty and my boating pleasure, I let my mechanic do the scary stuff that I'm not comfortable with.<br /> If you have read as many posts here as I have, I have learned ONE thing, the definition of boat is, BRING OUT ANOTHER THOUSAND! I'm not trying to be a smart..., just telling you as Don said, just a few hours of salt water injestion will destroy the engine. And you still don't know where the water is entering your engine, ie., it could happen again as soon as you start it up after you do the repairs. Good Luck, and pat yourself on the back for finding this great forum. It is the most informative site for boat repairs. But only because of all the people that give their time unselfishly to help guys like us.

 

[kimchee]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

Okay, after steve and carol told me my boat may have sank, I ran to the marina, and everything seemed fine!!! Talk about stress...<br /><br />Anyhows, I took all your advice and hired a "real mechanic" who took over, and said the mani/spacer/riser combo will cost me $700 each side (installed). Now, here's where he get me... Listen to this guys:<br /><br />As I was cranking the engine, he says that my "flywheel" doesn't sound to healthy, and that he says it is just a matter of time before that too goes... If that goes "he says, just to replace it will cost me $1200 alone" because it requires the engine and boat to be lifted. BUTT, If I change both sides of the manifolds ($1400) and flywheel, it will put me at $2600. NOW, he says, if I changed the entire engine, it would be $7,000. DOES THIS MAKES ANY SENSE ???<br /><br />He did a compression, and said it looks okay.. He says, eventhough the engine looks good, it does not negate the other problems... <br />Compressions test was as follows:<br />Starboard/bow to starboard/aft: 125-130-150-155<br />Port/bow to port/aft: 140-145-150-155<br /><br />Talk about dilemma !!!!<br /><br />Actually, as I am typing, it seems like an obvious decision to simply change the manifolds, so I will go ahead and replace the starboard side manifold/riser/spacer for $700. AND wait to see what you guys say to do with the port side...<br /><br />As far as what some of you have mentioned about the possibility of the water NOT coming from the manifolds. Well, I asked them about that, and they said aside from a crack in the block. It is 99% chance due to the manifolds. He said that because the compression test is good, the head gaskets are good, and therefore, the head gaskets are not a problem.<br /><br />My revised plan is to:<br />Change the starboard mani/spacer/riser.<br />Frequently check the port side plugs, and look for signs of water. <br />Hopefully the starboard side plugs will have NO water after this.<br />Hope for the best with the flywheel, and deal with it when it becomes a problem.<br /><br />He also said because I have a 1996 engine...<br />The lifespan of an engine on saltwater is 10-15 years at best.. Which puts me in the range for a new engine...<br />What would you guys do ???

 

[SeaRay24Sorrento]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

You will need new manifolds and risers reguardless at this point. The link I provided earlier will get you a set complete for both sides for a little over $400! $700 a side seems way too much. Does your motor have fresh water cooling (antifreeze in the block)? If so, the motor is protected from the salt water and should last considerably longer than if not. The leaking I recently experienced on my 350 was bad on one manifold and just barely on the other. Do both and be done with that part of it. Forget the flywheel at this point, you need to get this running with clean oil first.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Hydrolock=fixed ---> What is next....

kimchee - where are you located?