I am Back With Wet Foam

[Outback Jack]

Well I could not believe it after I was getting the bottom of my boat ready for paint and marking the water line from the mark of it sitting at the slip for a couple weeks. I thought the line was off by 1 inch on one side...so i pulled up the carpet to do some tests on the foam and I found wet foam.

When I bought the boat last year the guy said he had an incident at the dock and had it repaired. I checked the repair and it looked good. I asked if it got wet and he said no. It was just above the deck height on the outside so I said he is probably right. You have to take his word and the price was right.

What really made my day was when i pulled the carpet up the manufacturer had a hole left open where they filled the foam. On both sides just under your feet .So it was never water tight from day one.

So I actually don't know if the boat got gradually wet from the manufacturer not making the deck water tight or from the dock incident.

The thing is I don't figure there is any rot in this boat as i did a couple test holes and got down to the bottom of the stringers and they are not rotting..actually the foam is only about half soaked.

What do you guys recommend on getting the foam dry or at least getting it out and replacing it.

I don't really want to tear up the whole floor, but if that is the only way I guess I will.

Anybody have any luck with doing a cut on center on the stringer and just putting the piece back in and fiberglass with matt over it all again.

Any suggestions form the experts would be well appreciated....and thanks in advance

Out Back Jack

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

From my experience I know of NO way to dry the foam and the only way to remove it is to remove the deck and shovel it out. Others may chime in.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

What do you guys recommend on getting the foam dry or at least getting it out and replacing it.

Anybody have any luck with doing a cut on center on the stringer and just putting the piece back in and fiberglass with matt over it all again.

There is no way that I know to dry out the foam .. sorry..

However.. what you suggest with the center cut is what I have done in the past for localized foam replacement.

Yes you just put the piece back on your stringers with additional beam to beam ply strips to tie the for and aft ends of the piece. ... Glass over it and good to go.

YD.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

I think localized replacement is a good idea.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

There is no way that I know to dry out the foam .. sorry..

However.. what you suggest with the center cut is what I have done in the past for localized foam replacement.

Yes you just put the piece back on your stringers with additional beam to beam ply strips to tie the for and aft ends of the piece. ... Glass over it and good to go.

YD.

I think localized replacement is a good idea.

Yes I confirmed last night that this is a very solid boat.I figured that because the guy I bought it from owned it for the last 10 years and it was taken out of the water and put in a boat shed after each time on the water..after taking the other seat out I noticed the weld on the bottom of the mount was broke and wore a hole right through the floor..the boat has been in the garage since oct and the carpet will still damp under the mount.....and after running a few tests again confirmed it is localized for sure. I will definately be going with a localized repair and clean stuff up and reglass.

Thanks again Guys

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

Well guys i got at it yesterday...I could not believe it there were 17 ... 1 -1/2 inch holes that were not sealed on each side . No wonder these boats have water intrusion...so after I get the foam cleaned out I will evaluate it from there....most stringers have the original colour on the top edge...except for the one that was under the helm chair that had a hole wore through the flooor...will get the foam out and do a good evaluation on it then, but looking good other then 3ft of that stringer....this foam is work

I am glad i found this forum and I read alot of your threads Yacht Dr, Woodonglass and Frisco, you all seem to know your stuff..I use to build bathtubs and we built a couple boats from scratch before I left the industry 25 years ago. I know my experience with the 2 boats we built from scratch, we had to build the mold first, would have never had these problems because we completley chopped the insde of the boat after everything was sealed. I never knew that other manufacturer didn't do the same...shame on them hehehehe. I like to do a little rv,ing too and I know that they need maintenance to survive .My first travel trailer, I completely disamantled the front end of a 1975 trailer one time after finding out their problems...the trailer is still being used by a fellow rv'er.I owned a couple other ones but knew what to look for in them. I actually bought my first brand new travel trailer this year...I was on the roof the other day recaulking a couple screw holes...Maintenance I am looking at it the same way and would have never know the issues boats have . Like someone posted earlier in a thread...the manufactuers only got to get it by the warranty date... So after I get done I will have a boat that I will feel good about selling to another boater down the road...Thanks alot guys

I don't have a camera other then the cell phone...will post some pics after i get it all cleaned out...I decided to cut the hole floor out instead of doing different areas...as i found basically every where there was a plug the foam was wet

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

Well guys I got the foam out.

Going to do a dump run today to see how much water was actually in it.

Looks like i am going to replace the stringer..I am not a patch up type of guy. It is the outside stringer so it is an easy one. I want to fix up some of their work and cap the other stringers.

I would probably do more damage trying to pry the kleats off the side of the main stringers, what do you recommend for glassing them stringers, glass right over the cleats. Outside stringers do not have cleats but I am going to add cleats as that looks like it will make it stronger.
Actually the stringer that failed was caused from staples going out through the side of the plywood and taking off that laminate layer then when water leaking on top of it from the hole under the helm chair it froze and seperated the other laminates. That was the only foam that was completely soaked. The other stringers are in good shape...but why would they use plywood for stringers is beyond me. So cleats are a good addition.

I will run some tests after I get things cleaned up and dried out. but the rest look strong and have not coloured black like this one.


It is time to order some stuff to do this floor.


What should I use for resin to coat my existing stuff.

Where do you guys find the best prices.

The old floor I took up is actually in good shape , but It would be alot of work to clean up,plus it looks like mold on the underside. so going to start off new.

How much 1708 and csm should I get .

I want to have some woven here too, what weight should I get.

I guess I have to make peanut butter how much cabasol and fibers would I need.

What do you guys recommend to wash down the hull , as you know mold is probably growing or going to grow.

Thanks again guys

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

Thats a lot of questions ..

We Need some current pics of the project to give you a good evaluation ..

YD.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

Got some pics for you all to see . YD my daughter dropped by a few minutes ago and snapped a couple for me this is a picture of the plywood that come up..it was not rotten but under the chair there were lots of holes...actually both sides come up in one piece.

Here is a picture of the holes in the plywood holding down the chair on port side and where foam was the saturated...that is why i decided to check it all when i found all the holes in the floor for filling foam/

here is a picture of the edge of the plywood just to show how solid it actually was

Here is a picture of the solid stringer on the starboard side


here is a picture of the port side stringer with delamination and rot about half way down


The next 2 pictures are of the cross stringers that join on the edge of the rotted port stringer...and they are solid too

basically everything looks solid other then that stringer on the port side

I hope the pictures are ok..I was just wondering what recommendations you have...should i cap the stringers after i replace the one on the port side?

I am also thinking of adding cleats to strengthen up these stringers on both sides like in the middle stringers.

What I was getting at earlier is if I deiced to cap the stringers what do I do to the ones with cleats on them already...I don't want to destroy the stringer ripping of a cleat to cap the stringer with mat and resin.

Or so you mat the cleats also.

I have not gotten the middle stringer cleaned off yet but I am happy with how they look, but will know more later.



I went to the dump today with the foam and it weighed in at 185 lbs, I don't know what the foam should have weighed without the water but i figure alot less. My estimate is I took about 16.5 sq ft of foam with me

I am just wondering how much work I should actually do and with what type of products for the inside...polyester or epoxy..and how much resin should i go through.

I know I should use my 1.5 oz csm and then some 1708 biax..but there is going to be areas I want to layer and was wondering on what weight of woven or roven I should use. How much product to buy to make peanut peanut to put the floor back down and how much .

Thanks again folks...sorry for all the questions but just kind of need a little guidance of how much I should do ..should i just redo where i found them cutting corners ..like dry glass or redo a coat of resin over everything, cap the stringers and cleats and add additional cleats..

I know I could ask in another thread but I don't like to hyjack threads and every project is different.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

I am in no rush either , how long do you think I should wait for the dampness to get out of the other wood before starting any glassing. I bought this boat for a project boat and run it alot last season..so I know everything else works good.

My original project was redoing the hull below the water line before putting it in the water, and I have everything bought to do that but after reading lots of good posts I thought I would check the boat over real good . That is when I found the wet foam under the seats.

I am also redoing the interior vinyl...I redid the seats last seasoncushion looks a little crooked as they are velcoded in so i can take them out to clean underneath. I am changing the colours from thisam going to do the rest this year. I am knew to upholstery too but thought I would tackle it as they wantted to much money in town. So I probably will not get in the water this summer and that don't bother me because I will have my to do list done and can enjoy a bunch of seasons without any major work.

But my main objective here is to get the floor back down again then I will continue with my original project

 

[boaterinsd]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

well if you have a cover you might or could stick a dehumidifier under it and run it to speed up the process. Or parking it out in the sun would also do the trick. ( JMO)

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

well if you have a cover you might or could stick a dehumidifier under it and run it to speed up the process. Or parking it out in the sun would also do the trick. ( JMO)

yes I do have a cover....good idea...I have the boat off the trailer on dollies in the garage and with the weather with 5 days rain and 2 days sun I will definately use the dehumidifier that I get everything cleaned up

 

[produceguy]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

OJ, If you still have damp wood, You might want to consider redoing the entire deck.
I don't think the old ply encased in glass is going to dry, just rot.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

I looked at it more today after cleaning everything up....the only problem i see is the stringer, so I am going to change that and go with new plywood over the deck and seal it up real good. It is actually drying out real good now the foam is out. So by the time i get all my supplies it should be good to go. I figure I will put a layer of csm over everything before I cover it in with a new deck. I am just wondering if I should cap the stringers with 1708 or do I need to go that heavy.
Thanks

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

I dont think you need 1708 for the cap..just 1.5 oz mat .

Good to see your replacing all wet/rotted wood .

YD.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

I dont think you need 1708 for the cap..just 1.5 oz mat .

Good to see your replacing all wet/rotted wood .

YD.

I was thinking of using the 1.5 csm to coat the floor before I put the carpet back down with the 1708 along the edge Do you think I should go with a heavier matt or will the 1.5 oz csm be enough.

how much resin you think I would need for this job.

Thanks

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

I was thinking of using the 1.5 csm to coat the floor before I put the carpet back down with the 1708 along the edge Do you think I should go with a heavier matt or will the 1.5 oz csm be enough.

how much resin you think I would need for this job.

Thanks

I think the 1.5 csm will be fine on the floor as long as the wood is not drinking any more resin when you apply it..

I also think that 1708 tabbing for Deck/hull is overkill ..

Your primary Bond is paramount for any ties .. 1.5 oz mat is Made for bonding and semi-structural. ( poly ).

If you go 1708 your going to be 1.5 on the first and the last... thats overkill..

3 layers of mat is more then enough for deck/hull tabs ( in most cases .. ).

YD.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

Good to see your replacing all wet/rotted wood .

YD.

Well got at it again today after the dehumidifier was running for a few days. It wasn't doing the trick so I took a couple samples of the stringers surrounding the bilge and I decided to tear them out too.

At the same time I decided to take a look at the transom. I guess I lucked out there the transom is made up of 3 pieces ..the main sterndrive area (which is good)then a smaller area 2 by 3 on each side ..with an area of fiberglass in between the center transom and the outside pieces. The outside pieces are the only ones with any issues.

I have seen people with full transoms from left to right just change the bottom half of the plywood , but I am thinking since mine is an individual piece on each side I should change each piece on each side because of strength or should I just fix the bottoms of them.

One side has good wood about 8 inches from the bottom starting where you can see in the picture
the other side there is only about 3 inches bad.

just in case you cant see the original plywood with my edit here it is

Will I be weakening the transom by disturbing the skin of fiberglass over the whole piece and change it all out on each side or should I cut the skin all around the bad wood and just change the bottom of each piece

Thanks again

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

Will I be weakening the transom by disturbing the skin of fiberglass over the whole piece and change it all out on each side or should I cut the skin all around the bad wood and just change the bottom of each piece

You should remove all bad wood..if you need to remove the glass then you need to remove the glass..

If you dont have to grind..then Dont . Only remove what is needed for a secure glass job..

YD.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

In reference to grinding around the old stringers , there seems to be alot of resin in places, do I have to grind all the old resin off right down to the chop and start from there or can I just clean it up, take the high spots out and start laying the stringers?

Same thing for the lip , do I need to take the roving they used along the hull edge to deck right down to the hull again or just clean off the pattern and start from there.

Thanks again

Jack