I am Back With Wet Foam

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

In reference to grinding around the old stringers , there seems to be alot of resin in places, do I have to grind all the old resin off right down to the chop and start from there or can I just clean it up, take the high spots out and start laying the stringers?

Same thing for the lip , do I need to take the roving they used along the hull edge to deck right down to the hull again or just clean off the pattern and start from there.

Thanks again

Jack

I personally grind down to Raw glass.. NOT scuff resin spots..but raw glass. .. then layup..

YD.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

I personally grind down to Raw glass.. NOT scuff resin spots..but raw glass. .. then layup..

YD.

So that being said I figure you mean to the raw glass under the roving along the edge

Thanks
Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

I figure I would let you know I am still working on it. In the transom I decided to cut out the side pieces. I could not believe how water could get on to the top pieces...they were wet about 4 inches back..sometimes looking for a small leak in a car with antifreeze can be hard..put straight water in and it will show itself real quick. I am actually doing some work on my Trans Am, starter quit turning over the stroker, no biggie. Since I can't go boating this summer I have to take my wife out on a few cruises for an icecream

I actually decided to tear up all the carpet...going to go for the snap carpet look...wife just loved that look.

After I got all the rotted wood out there are some damp junctions in the corners cleats so I decide to wrap the boat in tarps and duct tape it to the boat and put the dehumidifier in it for a few days, just to be safe. Running it continuous with a hose out through the drain. It is in the garage and sealed up completely. I was thinking with the cover it wasn't air tight at all and we have alot of humidity in the air this spring as it has been raining every other day. I don't feel like doing all this work if it isn't completely dry.

I am going to relax for a few days and let it run.

We are finally getting some sun up here I am going to hook onto the camper and do some camping next week and take a break from the boat .

I am debating on going with epoxy instead of polyester under the floor, just for waterproofing .

Can i do the repairs and layup with polyester then go over the rest of the stringers and the repairs with a coat of epoxy for water proofing or should I just stick with polyester all the way?

It is just on the back side transoms under the floor where the foam was water logged , I found alot of dry fiberglass, like i said before I built stuff never repaired stuff . Can polyester resin gradually get disolved with standing water?

We like the style of this boat and is manageable for us and the right size for the waters we can go on and probably don't plan on buying another one. Unless we get rid of the camper and buy a cruiser would be my only option



Cheers

Jack

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

We are finally getting some sun up here I am going to hook onto the camper and do some camping next week and take a break from the boat .

I am debating on going with epoxy instead of polyester under the floor, just for waterproofing .

Can i do the repairs and layup with polyester then go over the rest of the stringers and the repairs with a coat of epoxy for water proofing or should I just stick with polyester all the way?

It is just on the back side transoms under the floor where the foam was water logged , I found alot of dry fiberglass, like i said before I built stuff never repaired stuff . Can polyester resin gradually get disolved with standing water?

We like the style of this boat and is manageable for us and the right size for the waters we can go on and probably don't plan on buying another one. Unless we get rid of the camper and buy a cruiser would be my only option

First Bold is the best thing you can do ! .. I would hook up that camper or tent and live your summer on ground as long as you can with your family ( I love camping out with the kids ).

Stick with poly all the way .. I would suggest stick with Poly..or Epoxy from beginning to end..

Properly cured poly/glass is like a glass bottle .. it cant be broken down from water ( not in our lifetime ..put a coke/pepsi plastic bottle in the water and see how long it takes to "break down" .. ) .

Dont get rid of the camper to get a boat ... a boat is a floating Bathtub .. with electronics and pumps and drives and $$.

Camper is Much more fun and compatible with summer fun with kids IMHO ..

I dont own a boat anymore.. I Might get a trailer boat for the Few days out of the summer where we dont go camping ..

Im thinking if you rid yourself of All the bad wood and tabbings and re-wood and re-glass ( not really that bad from My view ) .. your already done with deconstruction..and a little resin and glass WONT make you sell your camper ..

YD.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

First Bold is the best thing you can do ! .. I would hook up that camper or tent and live your summer on ground as long as you can with your family ( I love camping out with the kids ).


Dont get rid of the camper to get a boat ... a boat is a floating Bathtub .. with electronics and pumps and drives and $$.

Camper is Much more fun and compatible with summer fun with kids IMHO ..

I dont own a boat anymore.. I Might get a trailer boat for the Few days out of the summer where we dont go camping ..

Im thinking if you rid yourself of All the bad wood and tabbings and re-wood and re-glass ( not really that bad from My view ) .. your already done with deconstruction..and a little resin and glass WONT make you sell your camper ..

YD.

For sure I enjoy the camping too.best thing i ever invested in..been doing it since the kids were in diapers...my oldest is now finishing university and my youngest starts soon. It is great to spend time with your family and build the memories for them to enjoy.

I never figured my wife would like boating because she can't swim and is afraid of water. After she got in this boat we were going out at least 3 times a week, so I figure I better look after it.


I figure the same thing , got the boat torn apart, would have never known there were issues with boats until I found this forum. We run it all last year and it was a solid boat. I am just fixing things I would not have found if i never found the wet foam, because the floor was solid all over.

Then after experience working with chop gun I could see why the side transoms got wet the fiberglass chop was not wet enough from the start..But I need a little guidance on repairing because that is a whole new area , I really appreciate you chiming in. I must say though that any of the hand layed glass like the main transom and ski locker etc, was layed real fine. I am feeling the same way with a little fiberglass and resin and the boat will be good to go. I might have it in the water by fall but my goal is for next summer for us to enjoy again.

Also if I feel like selling the boat I will not feel like I sold someone junk.

Poly all the way

Thanks again YD

Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

After having the dehumidifier running for a few days I thought I would have another look....where do i draw the line on stringer replacement. I know I had wet foam laying against the wood. I already tore out what I found to have actual rot. Now i am looking at the stringers around my gas tank. I did some core tests it drilled through normal and the shavings felt damp but not wet, I couldn't squeeze them and see water.


I know i am going to find damp wood if you have soaked foam laying up against it for how long I don't know. Should i just change them out and move on or give it time to try and dry out.

Thanks
Jack

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

Hello again Jack..

Again.. you need pics with everything ..

Think of us as being bystanders .. we can only deduct without seeing ..

When you drill out..have that camera ready .. when your done glassing snap a shot.. we NEED to SEE.

I personally think .. if you have "rotted or rotting" wood then replace.

If you have "damp" good wood .. then its not really OMG fix it now .. it can wait until conditions for you are better ( unless your doing a full blown resto ) .

YD.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

If you have "damp" good wood .. then its not really OMG fix it now .. it can wait until conditions for you are better ( unless your doing a full blown resto ) .

YD.

Hello YD

Well you just made my decision to spend another day of demolition. I never started this out as a full restoration but after seeing what a good solid floor can be hiding i want to fix it up so I am not under there in 2-3 years again.

I have it in dry dock in the garage, so it might as well stay there until it is water tight .

All the people that went over this boat when I got home with it and that were on it last season thought it was a very solid boat, they would not believe it to be the same boat .

I guess I am into full restoration mode now

What do you recommend for coating and caping stringers? I like your ideas, you seem to use products to what they are capable of handling.

I had a good camera that was sent in for warranty work then died 6 months after warranty run out. I payed good money for it and am still boiling over it as that was last year. I will post you some pics when I get the stringers rough fit and after I get it glassed just to let you know my progress with all the good info you are providing me.

Thanks again

Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

I guess my biggest thing was that I had to come to grips that damp wood is as bad as rotted wood,damp was just going to last a little longer then rotted. I also got thinking about it over night , probably alot easier cleaning up with everything out of the way and start off with new stuff. Then trying to clean up their stuff and fiberglass over it to try and seal it.

After 4hrs today have all wood out of the boat. I could not believe how unsecure the bond was between some of the roving to the hull too. makes me wonder how long these hulls sit before stringers are attached I am going to go on that trip now and when I get back I will clean stuff up and make sure boat is still level and get to work


cheers
Jack

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

What do you recommend for coating and caping stringers?

With stringer "capping" I like to use just a few layers of 1.5 oz mat over resin SEALED end grain on the wood.

I have found that for the most part your going to have trouble Wrapping heavy glass materials on top without getting huge air pockets ( basically worthless and might have just saved the time and $ NOT to cap it lol ) .

Use 1.5 oz mat as your bond base..then a few layers of 1708 or 17 oz woving roving ( with mat between each layer ) just up to the top of the stringers ..end with 1.5 oz mat. Then cap the top with mat.

If you Really want to wrap/cap with 1708 then apply 1 layer of 1.5 oz mat on the cap..let cure..reprep .. then mat and 1708 on the second layup. Yes you could do it all at the same time..but this is a "safer" method.

YD.

Pics

 

[Kiwifisher]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

You're receiving good advice from the doc here. I would just add that you now have the perfect opportunity to make sure the original damage the previous owner repaired was done correctly and will not need future work. Also now would be a good time to redesign/rework your underfloor layout to ensure that if any water does happen to get in under the floor, it has a clear path to drain into the bilge and out the drain holes. Another thing to consider now would be what foam, if any, you'll be putting back. Personally i'd go for something that does not absorb and retain water.


All the best and have fun doing it.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

I have not left the project, have been on vacation and have been looking at the boat a bit. It has be ground down washed and ready. I am just waiting for supplies to show up. New stringers and bulkheads have been cut and fitted . So I should be back at it next week . Getting everything sealed. Hope everyone has a Great Long weekend and enjoys the hodliday..I am taking in july 1 here then heading across to pick up supplies and going to enjoy July 4th while I am there.

Also was considering putting in mounts for an upgrade to drivetrain someday to a 4.3 . It was an option with my boat but they never added the mounts. I presently have the 3.0. Does anyone know of any specific measurements I could use to add these now so they will be there for down the road or is it something I can just glass in when needed to the side of the stringer if I ever go that root to a 4.3 drivetrain.

Cheers
Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

You're receiving good advice from the doc here. I would just add that you now have the perfect opportunity to make sure the original damage the previous owner repaired was done correctly and will not need future work. Also now would be a good time to redesign/rework your underfloor layout to ensure that if any water does happen to get in under the floor, it has a clear path to drain into the bilge and out the drain holes. Another thing to consider now would be what foam, if any, you'll be putting back. Personally i'd go for something that does not absorb and retain water.


All the best and have fun doing it.

For sure Kiwifisher, Vacation is over for a bit and I am going into full swing.

Yacht Doctor has given me some good advice and you have some good points too. There is alot of knowledge in these forums.
The plan was to check everything out after I got into it and apart. I found that there was a repair on the Hull and it was not done properly , it was done from the outside and it was along a stringer.

So I got out the good old grinder and got rid of all the delamination from whatever happen, basically had to cut a big hole to fix it right.

In the first picture you can see I bent my poly cutting boards to an angle to follow the the the same line on the bottom of the boat and in the second picture you can see it from the inside.
In the last picture you can see where i did the glassing.

I started out with a layer of 1.5 oz csm and 2 layers of 1708 the size of the hole and then I went with 1 layer of 1.5 oz csm about 2 inches bigger then the hole, then 1 more layer of 1708 4 inches bigger then the hole then on top of that I went with a layer of 1.5 oz csm.

From my experience of glassing , I figure this should do the trick, plus on the outside after I take off the poly cutting boards I am going to feather it down about 2 inches around and add 2 layers of 1.5 oz csm before I apply my interprotect 2000 barrier coat.

I will add more csm to the outside if I find I am grinding away to much of the inside patch to get the original shape back.

It's been 25 years since I glassed and am having a good time, bringing back lot's of memories.

Do you think this is suffice for this repair?


Thanks
Jack

 

[oops!]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

looks great.
that is a typical text book repair of a large thru hole

the 3 layers of 1708 is the same thickness of the hull.

on the outside.........you will need to build up the edge where the glass bent to meet the backing plate......there will be a little "void" around that........just fill with structural peanut butter.

then another full wrap of csm....a 1708.....one csm.......and gell !


glad you are getting back into glassing and having fun!......glassing up side down can be a pain....use small pieces of glass or it will fall. (yd) says use wax paper on a wet out table...than tape the wax paper to the hull....and roll it on form there.

but again....it looks really good

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

Thanks oops for the pointers. Like I said I am going to be putting a couple layers on the outside and I have to shape it first to get my best contour before I start glassing again. Since this stuff is a pain to sand with no wax I decided to put on a coat of waxed today on the outside so I can get it to set up good and get a good feather edged sanding down before I start glassing on the outside. Also I want to knock a layer of resin off and bring it back to the matt I started with from the inside.

Since I was originally only going to do some blister repairs with epoxy on the outside with an ip 2000 barrier coat below the water line , I will do my fairing with epoxy after I lay my glass on the outside. I figure I will get a better bond with the epoxy and that is what I am using for my blisters, so I will stick with one product on the outside under the waterline. I already had the epoxy bought for repairing below water line so I might as well use up what I got and save my polyester for my lay up under the deck and inside the boat.

LOL I never planned at first to be ripping up the deck and replacing the stringers , as the floor was solid. I was just going to do a barrier coat .

It was funny as the boat was being worked on for the barrier coat in the garage it was like a propane tank,It swets were the gas is . There would be humidity on the hull from the water line down, got me thinking about the wet foam. Glad I found this place to do lot's of reading and figure out the problem from the start.

Also I noticed the stringers I cut out because they were wet have been laying in the sun and are as dry as new now, maybe I will put them on ebay as slightly used

Anyhow back to plan B as A just got demolished when I started investigating HAHAHAHA

I am hoping to get on the water once this summer , so got lot's to do , cheers

Thanks
Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

Hello Fellow Iboater's

Well I got a chance to look at things again this weekend, I had the stringers all sealed and 1 coat of csm and the back transom pieces on each side tabbed in with 1 coat of csm then 2 coats of 1708. Then I was going to put down the stringers and I felt like the front motor mount fiberglass sounded like it come unbonded. Well I'll be , it was damp on one side under the glass . Grabbed the old grinder and took it out. It was not rotten but again had an area on it that the glass was seperated and a skim of scum on it that fiberglass would not bond too unless it layed in the sun for a few days. So I guess I have now changed every piece of wood on the boat other the the main transom as it was solid as a rock..I think these 3 piece transoms have one advantage. Thank God

I will post some pics of my progress when I get the camera again
Going to go away for another 2 weeks , I will get back at it again when I get back

Cheers Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

Well vacation is over and time to get back to the GRIND. I had a great vacation it ended down in bar harbour maine, liked it so much booked a place at the campground for the end of august.
That being said I have some time to work on the boat, most likely on the weekends and when I get a free evening.
I will be starting to lay in the stringers this week sometime and after I get them set in PB and tabbed I will start taking some pictures.

Hope everyone is having a great summer

Cheers Jack

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

Looking good so far Jack ..

Hope to see them pics soon hehee.

YD.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

Thanks YD
Well ran out of cabosil this weekend while filleting. At least I got them bedded in PB before hand and set up nice. I decided to do the last part (the darker stuff )with just resin , chop strand and some old sawdust powder from the bandsaw I had in a bag.(I hope it never absorbed moisture from the cat ) It will not set up for some reason...humidity is real high here at the moment. I even fired up the old furnace , but no go. I will try a couple heat lamps tonight. If that don't work will have to scrape the area off and do up a mixture with less sawdust powder I guess and more chopstrand or wait for my new order. Also i will attach a couple pics on where I am at right now. Basically ready to take out ski locker plywood and gas tank plywood when I get my fillets organized. Then 1708



Cheers Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: I am Back With Wet Foam

Well looks like my little mixture will not set up...must have been damp sawdust powder. I will scrape it off in the am and mix up some 1/4 inch chop strand and fillet with that , it is only that one side of the stringer and the 3 ft of the other one. Only thing i hate about that is I will have extra sanding to do before I start my 1708 . I can't let the cabisol hold my project up. That is the breaks living in the country in an area where this stuff has to be shipped in. Rest of my order will not be in until after the weekend.

Cheers Jack