I am Back With Wet Foam

[Outback Jack]

Re: Limber Holes

Re: Limber Holes

Sounds good kpiazzisi, I have 96 inches to the ceiling and my beam is 89 so should be ok there too. I have to get my floor done complete first as I do not want any distortion caused by me from splitting the cap then fiberglassing.

I took it real easy this weekend I was only able to get 3 sides of my cleats fiberglassed and installed with screws and pl. now I will glass the 4th side and cap the stringers at the same time, before I head out . I am only going to use scrap pieces of 1708 for capping as it is more there just for waterproofing.

Also I had a suggestion using rope and pull it out after my foam set's up. I don't want to be pulling anything out as that will compromise the natural seal on the foam. No input on the weeping style conduit, I will go ahead with my plan when I get back from my last vacation. The way I look at it , it can't hurt and if it works we will never know until the floor has to come up again

Cheers jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Limber Holes

Re: Limber Holes

Well I questioned the pl . Don't like it at all. I ended up capping the stringers with torn apart csm . I am now going to have to grind the tops of the stringer in spots. Some of the pl that I never figured I had to wipe up clean as I would be covering it began to come off when the resin hit it. It's not bad but has to be ground off next week in some spots and some csm put down to seal these spots again. I figured at the time ,I might as well leave it and grind it off after it sets up. PL worked ok when in bead form, but any that you spread with your finger to clean off, make sure you get it cleaned up before you put resin on it. The PL was set up for 40 hrs . Oh well just a heads up for others.

Here is a picture of how I sealed up my cleats 1 side at a time and did the stringer tops the same way as it is just to seal and easy to use this way


Cheers Jack

 

[kpiazzisi]

Re: Limber Holes

Re: Limber Holes

Jack,

I did not have any distortion of my hull. I pulled the cap, removed the floor, stringers and bulkheads. My trailer however was designed for the boat and may have played a role in maintaining the integrity or the hull. The gaps I had in some spots b/t my hull and cap were from the factory. When I pulled the cap off at the start of this project, there were some 3/16 to 1/4 gaps in a couple of spots. It didn't get any worse by me taking the cap off. I doubt that the hull would distort by pulling the cap before finishing the floor, but I have only done this once.

I love the trees in the background of your photo. Not many trees like that here in Florida.

Good luck

 

[Outback Jack]

Deck and Stringer Replaced

Deck and Stringer Replaced

kpiazzisi,
I was quit surprised at actually how little movement there was in the hull when I took everything out .
What did you do to seperate the hull, Was it just held together with a sealer? Did you need a grinder or just take the screws out. Also how did your glass come out ?

I am working with the weather up here now, fall is in the air. I am hoping I can get the floor down and foam in when I get back from vacation. Hopefully by the end of next weekend. We can get snow in October here. The snow will not stay but the nights will start dipping to freezing the dogs water every night. Finishing the floor, I don't figure it will add that much weight to the flip. Lighter would be better The temps don't matter on sanding. I don't know what I will do now with the fairing. I was going to use epoxy. Just for strength around the delamination I found but I don't know how long it has to cure in 80 degree temps before I can shut the furnace down. I don't mind running the furnace for a week in the fall . My garage is not insulated . I usually try to stay away from it in the cold months. Makes me change my projects I will be inside doing upholstery .

I wonder how long I have to let epoxy cure or if I use ip2000 on the bottom after before I can turn the heat down?

I might have to call the manufacturers. I might get lucky with a week of indian summer, if so I can hit it then, if not I will have everything to go in reference to paint in the spring for the hull. The cap I can take to a buds place and spray in his booth.

I live out in the country bud,we are surrounded by a 100 year old mixed forest with white pines being the dominant. If you go down my driveway through them woods about 100ft there is a brook there with a good spring sea run of trout up to 18 inches. It is big enough for a boat down river but only big enough to canoe and get the white water going after a few days of rain up here, real fun. It has bolders in front of my place taller then us. I always sit down there relaxing wondering how the hell they got there Whenever I glass for a bit I always go for a stroll down over the hill just to relax and get at it again. I was in florida a few years ago with the kids, we did the tourist thing never had much time to relax. It was nice to get away from the snow we get . Not that I don't like the seasons but after a long one you need a break We had one winter I only took the blower out 2 times but I have only seen that once in my lifetime. We could use them every few in my books I know soon in life I am going to be heading out in the winter months to relax a few weeks, you never know I might be down that way some time and look you up.

Thanks again

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Well this week has been productive , I was able to get my drainage tubes put in, if they work I will never know , but I know these compartments will be finished water tight from above.If water ever get's in at least it will gradually find the tubes It was a Great feeling to screw the deck down. I used the 5200 over all screws . I figured after I fiberglass I will be able to see each screw better if I ever need to do a repair. This will enable me to access the area without tearing the boat apart. I put 1 layer of csm on the bottom of the deck. I will be carpeting my boat back to original . Then I used the pl on my cleats that I screwed to the sides of the stringers and also on top of the cleats. So lot's of areas to adhere to the bottom of the deck. I also sealed the tops of the cleats and all the stringers with torn up csm. Then I sealed the tops of the stringers with torn csm to bond the cleats together and also used pl to adhere the cleats to the stringers with screws. I will do the pb around the deck some time next week and tab it in. All i can say it is nice to see the deck down

Here are some pictures


Cheers
Jack

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

OJ, PL requires a minimum of 48 hours to cure. 72 is preferred. If not... Well you know what happens. Sorry!!!! Another tip when using PL for setting and coving is to use a plastic spoon dipped in Mineral Spirits to Cove it smooth.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Thanks for the tips Woodonglass. Sorry isn't enough hahhahahahaj/k I had a mess:facepalm:. I probably read it a few times in one of your posts as I have read alot of yours and I really appreciate all the help and info you provide us . I was questioning the 40 hrs I waited and said to myself it should be ok, but I found out real quick. I should have taken the time and come in and looked here for a bit.

Thanks again
Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Well I have not put the project away yet, was just getting some things ready for winter, had to get the firewood in the shed and get a few other things done. Will be getting back to it this weekend, going to fill the deck with foam and get it glassed in. Then i will plan my next step. At least now I am at the stage I can just take my time to get it ready for next season The biggest job is done . Wife said to me the other day let's put the patio chairs in it and go for a cruise some evening
Cheers
Jack

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

OJ, PL requires a minimum of 48 hours to cure. 72 is preferred. If not... Well you know what happens. Sorry!!!! Another tip when using PL for setting and coving is to use a plastic spoon dipped in Mineral Spirits to Cove it smooth.

I used PL on top of all my stringers before I put the plywood down. I tried to get it so when it squeezed out I would not have to touch it at all. I had 3 or 4 spots I just could not leave and pushed it back in under the deck and wiped the excess off. I left it for 10 days to let the 5200 that I used to seal the screw holes set up etc and get some other things done around here other then the boat .

The areas which I wiped the excess off and left a little residue reacted again with the 435 resin when I was filleting the voids with my cabisol and chopstrand PB...only a couple spots...but just so everyone knows a bead of the pl was not disturbed but any excess from a finger wipe on the edge of the plywood was. Basically the resin will not set up in these spots and the pl lifts right off of the plywood.

That is my experience with pl , make sure you get any thin excess wiped up because it doesn't matter how long it sits it will react .

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Had a productive weekend, I was able to get the deck tabbed in and foam is done. I used almost 3 16 lb kits. I have about half of the third kit left. I heated the foam up in the containers sitting in warm water in the set tub first. Had a real good expansion rate. I would advise people to drill a few relief holes. Don't be scared to drill a bunch as you will get better coverage and you will be sealing them up afterwards anyway. Don't know how my limber holes worked in the compartments but at least they are there in case I ever get water intrusion. No foam come out the ends and i was able to drive my 2 ft bit up the channel but don't have anything longer to check. So just have to hope they are somewhat clear.
I was also able to get the top of the hull stripped down just have to take the rub rail off and I can split the hull

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Well I got thinking last night and after lot's of reading and getting advice from fellow iboater's I am taking this to the next level..A FULL RESTORE. I just feel I have so much time into this I got to do it right and add some little touches. I am going to go with a Full gelcoat spray and get rid of all the vinyl stripes and go with gelcoat inlays with the advice from YD...Thanks bud you make these projects go to the next level, not just a fix this but let's do it up right

So today I got out of bed and decide to just do that. I made room in my garage, put my other toy my TA in for winter storage and started work. I split the hull and now have it suspended from the ceiling


I then took out my boat dolly and put it to work, now everyone needs one of these it makes it easier for moving things around.


After that I moved the hull to the other side of the garage and am in the works of removing the outdrive and motor



I even tried the cap back on the hull after I separated and it went real smooth. I am glad and know it took alot longer working around the cap to get the stringers and deck back in place but I never distorted the hull that I can see as everything went smooth when I did the test fit of the cap.

After I get things removed we will bring in the troops to flip the hull.

I have my winter project pretty well planned out now and am just going to be taking my time and doing it up right.

Thanks again, Iboater's Rock and just gives a man a whole bunch of ideas

The name on the boat is going to change too, it was named by the previous owner and I need something more era appropriate

Jack

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

That's cool that you're going for a full restore.

This is just my opinion, take it for what it's worth (nothing), but I'd paint it. Nuts to that gelcoat stuff. From what I've seen on here it just looks to have too much disaster potential which could require daunting amounts of sanding to correct. Leave that stuff for the factory in the mold. I'm not saying bomb it with Rustoleum or something, go with a quality two-part marine paint like Awl Grip or VC Performance Epoxy or something like that.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

That's cool that you're going for a full restore.

This is just my opinion, take it for what it's worth (nothing), but I'd paint it. Nuts to that gelcoat stuff. From what I've seen on here it just looks to have too much disaster potential which could require daunting amounts of sanding to correct. Leave that stuff for the factory in the mold. I'm not saying bomb it with Rustoleum or something, go with a quality two-part marine paint like Awl Grip or VC Performance Epoxy or something like that.

But its only a 18 footer ..

I think you would see more "disasters" if more members would show how there Paint jobs came out. ( Not too many Full gel jobs on the forum as well ).

Remember..when your PAINT .. your going to have to prep, mask, prime, reprep, Fill every little dimple or even the tiniest of scratches, remask, super clean up so NO dust is around, spray the paint and hope you dont have any problems ( You only have one shot when spraying paint ).

Gelcoat is Prep, Mask, blow gel on, wetsand then buff until you have a mirror.

Once you get past the learning curve and the fear of gel .. its so super easy.

All this talk about wet sanding and more wet sanding and buffing .. and its soo labor intensive has Not done current applications of gel.

Forget that wetsanding ( accept the radius' and final sanding steps ) .. Use a DA or an orbital power sander with some 320 and see how fast that orange peel goes away.

I can tell you this for SURE .. Get two identical boats and two DIYers ( with the same amount of tool and basic how to know how ) .. put those boats in my shop. One wants paint and one wants gelcoat ( lets say 18 foot boats ).

Kinda like a junkyard dogs episode but I will only Tell them what and how and give them every bit of equiptment and materials they will need for there project.

Now.. Im there just as an observer and a consultant for each person ( in my lawn chair with a cooler full of food/water and a few beers ).

I explain all of the steps needed for each project up front.. and they can come back at any time to ask any question about any stage involved at anytime. I will sign off each step personally being OK to go to the next step .. or no you have to do more here and there before you proceed.

I Guarantee you guys.. the person with the gel coat job will come to me Fewer times for advise.. will have Fewer times where they needed to do a little more to continue to the next step.. and will have Less time involved achieving a better, more durable finish then the Paint guy. .. Oh.. and if repairs are needed in the future .. Bonus for the gel guy.

Just my 2 pennies worth . .. erm.. maybe more like a buck fifty but hey .

YD.

PS. I say go for it OB.

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

OJ:
I know you chimed in my thread, and I just wanted to let you know I was enjoying yours. Keep it up.

YD: I loved your post... Count me in for the contest (and I call the gel coat).

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

ezmobee, I originally planned on going with gel but was going to go with a barrier coat then I thought of paint and was going to go that root. I use to spray gelcoat 5 days a week back in 1980 and then run the chop gun. First man on the line but that was on molds and never had to worry about finish sanding . I tried my hand at painting one time on an old Bronco and it never faired out very well. I been on the fence for some time now but have leaned towards the gel as I have the winter to get the hull the way I want to and can spray it in my garage and then do the sanding. I know I have had people volunteer to spray for me but I need a spot to do a real good job or they will not spray and moving stuff around up here with winter coming on will be a pain and cost more. Actually the guy that volunteered to spray paint for me is wondering why I don't go with gel . I can do this at home. I also feel the gelcoat can handle alot more abuse then paint and like YD says it is more forgiving. I don't mind the labour of sanding as I will have lot's of time. Thanks for the input.

Yd I will be hitting you up with lot's of questions as per mixing and tip sizes when I get ready. I have to pick up a gun from somewhere too. I see you recommend the one from HF. Yd I hope you don't get tired of all the questions I will have because you must know by now I am always questioning myself

Do a show I will come down and be your first contestant .

Pmccraney, thanks for dropping by and checking out my restore, I have been watching your too. It's alot of work but when you see accomplishments you feel good

Motor is out now, just need a tool to take the gimble housing off now

Jack

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

I use to spray gelcoat 5 days a week back in 1980 and then run the chop gun

Carry on!

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Well I am wondering what I can do with this gallon of epoxy resin I have here. I was going to use it to do some repairs on the outside of the hull, but since I am going to gel now I don't want to just throw it out.

I am wondering , I have my deck tabbed in with 1708 and polyester 435 resin, but have not put anything on the deck itself yet, other then doing the plugs with pb on the holes I put in it to do the foam. Could I just use the epoxy resin over the deck with a layer of 1708. I will not put epoxy in the bilge or ski locker as I am going to gelcoat these areas . That way to I can practise my spraying techniques

I just don't want the gallon of epoxy to go to waist. Does epoxy bond good to fresh layup polyester resin?

Also can I glue carpet down to a waxed gelcoat surface or does it need to be sanded first?

I am just thinking ahead because if I decide to go with carpet in the end I might do the ski locker in carpet like it was.

Just doing some thinking today and need some opinions .

Jack

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Someone more knowledgeable than me will surely come along but......from my understanding, epoxy doesn't work well with 1708. I think 1708 relies on poly breaking down something or other in its mat component which epoxy doesn't do. I could very well be wrong.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Well I am wondering what I can do with this gallon of epoxy resin I have here. I was going to use it to do some repairs on the outside of the hull, but since I am going to gel now I don't want to just throw it out.

You should be fine storing the epoxy for a while..

I am wondering , I have my deck tabbed in with 1708 and polyester 435 resin, but have not put anything on the deck itself yet, other then doing the plugs with pb on the holes I put in it to do the foam. Could I just use the epoxy resin over the deck with a layer of 1708.

Yup.. No problems there .

Does epoxy bond good to fresh layup polyester resin?

No .. you have to grind it first before the epoxy lams go down.

Also can I glue carpet down to a waxed gelcoat surface or does it need to be sanded first?

Glueing anything that has wax or is not prepped is not a good idea. So .. NO you should not do this ( Dont add wax if your going to put another layer of Anything down after that coat).

Just doing some thinking today and need some opinions .

Do not put anything down unless its been prepped ..if its hard you need to grind it for the next application rule of thumb #1.

YD.

 

[Outback Jack]

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Re: Deck and Stringer Replaced

Ezmobee, for sure some stuff is not compatable with epoxies but usc 1708 is after talking to them earlier today.

Thanks for the info YD , I will probably go with the epoxy on the deck if it comes down to loosing it . I probably will not have much use for it after I am done this project.

YD do you think the one layer of epoxy for soaking in the wood then the 1 layer of 1708 should be all I need on the deck.

Also for everyone I was doing a little reading today and found a little comparison of epoxy versus polyester...interesting findings and was amazed at the findings of water absortion ....makes you wonder and shows both do absorb after immersion.

Jack