I can't Find my seal

[Arkman]

I'm trying to do some work on a trailer I got for free. Its an older spartan and I cant seem to find the seal to go with it. The only thing the seal says is NOK AF809 2E. I've tried searching it online and I get nothing. I brought it in to a couple autoparts stores and they didn't have anything. One had a seal that had the same diameters for everything but it was $12 and I wasn't sure that it was right so I decided to check here first.

What do you guys think?

 

[Subliminal]

Re: I can't Find my seal

 

[Arkman]

Re: I can't Find my seal

I dont know much about trailers but I'm almost certain that isn't compatible.

 

[robert graham]

Re: I can't Find my seal

Go to Northern Tools if you have one in your area, they carry everything for trailers. Good Luck!

 

[marlboro180]

Re: I can't Find my seal

If anyone is having a problem finding a seal, or a bearing, these are two great outfits...bearings, pillow blocks, keyed shafts,etc...

http://www.motionindustries.com/motion3/jsp/mii/LocationsMI.jsp
- many, many many locations. This one is for MN

If in midwest/ Wi ,

http://www.bearingsinc.net/index.htm ( my favorite)

All ya gotta do is get your part number off yer exg. part, call em and they will cross reference it to one they have one the shelf, or bring one in for you.

BTW- Just got the wrong seals sent from my Case tractor dealer, not his fault- the parts listing is wrong. Called Bearings Inc, they will have them brought in for Fri AM. 2 1/2 day turnaround. Not bad, and $4.50 ea for double lipped axle seals. Much quicker than my dealers lead time of 1-2 WEEKS

 

[Silvertip]

Re: I can't Find my seal

Did you see the sticky at the very top of this forum that deals with bearings and seals?

 

[Arkman]

Re: I can't Find my seal

I did see it but the part number on my seal is different. That inside diameter listed next to the part number is far to large. That slips past ever level of my spindle and slides back to where the trailer is bolted to the axle. I found that out the hard way. Luckily northern tool allows for dirty returns. My seal looks strange compared to others I've seen. Also, my spindle(I think thats the right term) tapers from 1"(outside bearing) to 1 3/8" (inside bearing). From what I can tell that is not normal. Usually its 1 3/8" to 1 1/16" I think. I don't know, this is the first trailer I have worked on.

The one seal I took off was totally toast so I couldn't measure that and the other I think is damaged so I can't get accurate measurements off of that. I went to northern tool and the seals they had for the bearing size I need had the wrong outside diameter...so it wouldn't fit in my hub. I thought about just getting a new hub but I was unable to find a 1" outer bearing by 1 3/8"inner bearing hub assembly.

From what I can tell the seal has an outside diameter(the part that fits into the hub) of 2.55" and an inside diameter (the actual rubber part) of about 1.5" The spindle itself has three different steps. A part that fits a 1" bearing (L44643) and then the next step is 1 3/8" (L68149) the third step is only a little bigger then the second and it measures 1.47". The seal I bought today fits sort of but where it hits that third level (which I understand is the part the seal is suppose to run into) it slips over that ledge really easy. I'm assuming that is not right.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: I can't Find my seal

The only dimension you can measure on a used seal is the outside diameter. the inside diameter is stretched from its new ID so it is a useless dimension used. You need to measure the seal area on the spindle. I have also never seen a 1 inch outer and 1-3/8 inner spindle. If you are using a ruller to measure this you need a dial caliper for a more accurate reading. That said, just because I've never seen one does not mean they don't exist. It also means nothing since the bearings have nothing to do with the seal. It is only the hub diameter (seal outer diameter) and the seal surface diameter on the spindle that is of any importance. Have you tried a NAPA store and talked with someone older than 18. As for part numbers, that too means nothing since very seal manufacturer can have their own part number for an identical part. So stop looking at part numbers and look for physical dimensions. Some of the better seals are actually double lip which is a better seal. So just because they look different also is inconsequential.

 

[Arkman]

Re: I can't Find my seal

Thanks silvertip. I have a caliper and am measuring with that. I've gone to every part store in town and today even talked to the manager of one. He found something close but I feel like the fit is too loose. With very little effort I can push the seal back too far on the spindle.

Can most spindles be removed from the axle. I wouldn't be apposed to changing all that out if I had to.

Generally speaking, on a stepped spindle is there one step that the seal is supposed to rest against?

 

[Arkman]

Re: I can't Find my seal

Is it possible that the person who replaced the bearings before me put the wrong size in. I would imagine that its awful hard to put a 1" bearing on a 1 1/16" spindle, but I thought it worth a question.

 

[99seapro]

Re: I can't Find my seal

Is it possible that the person who replaced the bearings before me put the wrong size in. I would imagine that its awful hard to put a 1" bearing on a 1 1/16" spindle, but I thought it worth a question.

Are you measuring the surface of the spindle where the outer bearing rides or where the castle nut screws on? The area where the bearing rides will step down where the washer and nut attach on a 3500lb axle which it sounds like you have. the seal is 1.72 id I think.

 

[marlboro180]

Re: I can't Find my seal

Is it possible that the person who replaced the bearings before me put the wrong size in. I would imagine that its awful hard to put a 1" bearing on a 1 1/16" spindle, but I thought it worth a question.

You sure it isnt METRIC?
http://www.motionindustries.com/motion3/jsp/mii/productSearch.jsp

 

[Arkman]

Re: I can't Find my seal

Nope, I'm not sure. All I know for sure is there number of the bearings I took out and the number on the seal. I called the fargo bearing and seal (which i think is a motion industry company...thats how they answered the phone) and he didn't really have anything either.

I'm afraid my next step is to just replace the entire axle, but that wont happen for a while, and fishing season is quickly approching.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: I can't Find my seal

The seal rides on the highest smooth surface just in front of where the spindle is welded to the axle. the next step down 1-1/16 or 1-3/8 inch is where the rear bearing sits. The area just behind the threads on the spindle is were the outer bearing sits. That will be either 1-inch or 1-1/16. As I mentioned, I've never seen a 1 inch outer and 1-3/8 inner but that doesn't mean they don't exist. As for replacing spindles, that is not practical as labor and the new spindles, hubs and bearings would be more than a new axle and then you need someone who knows what they are doing so that proper alignment is achieved.

 

[marlboro180]

Re: I can't Find my seal

Nope, I'm not sure. All I know for sure is there number of the bearings I took out and the number on the seal. I called the fargo bearing and seal (which i think is a motion industry company...thats how they answered the phone) and he didn't really have anything either.

I'm afraid my next step is to just replace the entire axle, but that wont happen for a while, and fishing season is quickly approching.

Thats a bummer. When I searched NOK on their site, all I got was metric seals, and posted the results in above ^^^^.

I would just measure the I.D. of the hub, and the O.D. of the axle and let them figure it out. Maybe someone put the wrong seal in there prior to you owning it, people do funny things.

If that $12 seal is right, thats a lot for a seal but if it the correct one, what the heck its cheaper than replacing spindles. ( sorry about lack of apostrophes, but my laptop had a gravity check .Turns out gravity impact tests remove the apostrophe button from computers)

 

[Arkman]

Re: I can't Find my seal

The seal rides on the highest smooth surface just in front of where the spindle is welded to the axle. the next step down 1-1/16 or 1-3/8 inch is where the rear bearing sits. The area just behind the threads on the spindle is were the outer bearing sits. That will be either 1-inch or 1-1/16. As I mentioned, I've never seen a 1 inch outer and 1-3/8 inner but that doesn't mean they don't exist. As for replacing spindles, that is not practical as labor and the new spindles, hubs and bearings would be more than a new axle and then you need someone who knows what they are doing so that proper alignment is achieved.

Thanks for the info. I'm still not totally sure that I understand how this all works so I made a little picture. (Work isn't that busy )

Is this what it should look like? I just drew rough where I understand the seal should go.

 

[marlboro180]

Re: I can't Find my seal

If there are signs of a seal being there , than yes , for an inner seal.

I just got off the line w/ Bearings Inc. on another matter but asked them about NOK for you. NOK (made around the world) is an German Company selling OEM parts to manufacturers only. Sorry for steering the thought of them being metric your way.:redface: That being said, here are some very common sizes in the 2.55 OD double lip variety:

2.55 x 1.75, 2.55 x 1. 725, 2.55 x 1.718

 

[Arkman]

Re: I can't Find my seal

Ok, I'll look for some signs of the seal...I cleaned the spindle really well before I started this process. I'm not sure if I'll see anything but I'll give it a shot.

Thanks for the help. I know those sizes are too big for my spindle for sure...I've tried them

Another question. How tight should the seal be on the spindle? Should the rubber really sit snug on the spindle or should it just grab ahold of it? So it can slide on the spindle easy but still cant see light around the rubber/spindle joint?

 

[marlboro180]

Re: I can't Find my seal

Ok, I'll look for some signs of the seal...I cleaned the spindle really well before I started this process. I'm not sure if I'll see anything but I'll give it a shot.

Thanks for the help. I know those sizes are too big for my spindle for sure...I've tried them

Another question. How tight should the seal be on the spindle? Should the rubber really sit snug on the spindle or should it just grab ahold of it? So it can slide on the spindle easy but still cant see light around the rubber/spindle joint?

The area where the old seal was riding should be a lot smoother than the rest. It should be just inboard of the shoulder where the inner race sits against.

I guess I would mic up the axle seal lip and see what is available. The seal should be kinda snug, but not flopping around on there. It is an interference fit to keep the grease in and water out, but should turn easily enough as to not build up excess friction thereby creating additional heat and frying the seal.

FWIW:
Measuring the uncompressed ID of the lip on the seal ( vernier calipers just-a- touchin) and comparing that to my axle, the seals are about .020 smaller than the axle and are just snug and turn pretty easily.

Hope this helps.

 

[Subliminal]

Re: I can't Find my seal

I dont know much about trailers but I'm almost certain that isn't compatible.

Maybe this would work better?