I have to agree

[rodbolt]

Re: I have to agree

I dont support groups like KKK,Hezbollah,code pink and the numerous other hate/idiot groups. I also can see bombing a UN outpost,a refugee camp nor a building housing nothing but civilians and killing more than 50 civilians.,
they say all vehicles are targets and tell people to leave.
how can ya do both?
so yes,isreal is becoming as bad as hezbollah,KKK and a few other groups.
the west did not condem isreal until the christian northern part of lebanon was bombed a few days ago.
if Isreal is such a staunch US ally why are there over 60 UN sanctions against them that they totally ignore? why did the US state dept issue arms sanctions against isreal not long ago,and its not the first time.
like I say, we have no friends in the middle east. only those that will bleed us dry and hang the remains out to dry when convenient .
I say cut off all aid to everyone and pull back, when they sort out their issues we can be friends with the winner.
I keep hearing about "international" troops and cannot help but translate it into US troops.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: I have to agree

What exactly is the negative impact of a UN sanction? Has there been a UN resolution that they have enforced in say the past 10 years?

 

[12Footer]

Re: I have to agree

.

And when has any UN resolution brought about a real peace?.
------------------------------------------------From SW Florida, A proud member of iboats since
March 25, 2001
The old me

 

[--GQ--]

Re: I have to agree

skinnywater I have given you so much information in the past 3 years its not funny, IG reports,congressional records. but anything that does not reflect your view of history is trash mouthed with some political reference.
I am most likly way more conservative than you. thats why I say quit supporting Israeal and a few other places with arms and cash and let them sink or swim. by the way, are you aware our isreali friends are currently under state dept sanctions for reverse engineering US arms and selling them to china and a few other places and for modifying/upgrading the predator drones that they resold to china to current specs?

look very very closely at the pics of the chinese fighter that downed one of our P-3 aircraft a few years back. tell me who made the air to air missles under the fighters wings and where they bought them. bat ya cannot, or will not.


not bad for our ally.
I dont condone hezbollah nor any other terrorist types, be it KKK, aryan nation,al queada the IRA the PLA. however the US created and covertly supported most of them in the name of "communism".
I try to look at history as an object not just what the paper prints.
most dont stop to think what we did to syria,lebanon,iran,iraq and a few other places, we wont even mention the two great traitors in the honduras and nicaragua.
but if you search carefully though the IG and congressional reports, do a bit of searching through more non political biased international reports it starts getting clear.
hillary blew ole rumsfeld a new one the other night, as as much as I dislike hillary my disdain for ole rummy is worse. worse now cause he lied and lkied again on the TV the other night.
maybe we can debate the great tactical and political prowess of Donald Rumsfeld ?
so yes I will be willing to debate anything you wish, however ya need to quit calling me,and some others leftist and some other derogatory remarks you have made in the past.
I have found when someone resorts to name calling and distractions it means they can no longer debate and must shift attention.

You are too deep for the mass on Iboats. Some of the folks on here got their head so far up where the sun don't shine to comprehend what you stated above. They simply read a chapter in a book and think they know it all. Most of the posters on this thread knowledge of the Middle East is post 911 at best. No matter the outcome, the 30% mentality will say the same.

Treedancer, give me an update on the number. Is it 30% or has it gone down to 23%?

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: I have to agree

...You are too deep for the mass on Iboats. Some of the folks on here got their head so far up where the sun don't shine to comprehend ....

Do you have any idea how arrogant and conceited that sounds? We're all idiots because we don't agree with you and rodbolt? What is it that you think you know about us?

 

[QC]

Re: I have to agree

The Frogger is back!!!!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: I have to agree

I am saying no one is an idiot, leave me outta that one.
a few refuse to counter with a point and when confronted with a fact will reply with a beverage reference or a leftist,whatever that is, reference.
but I have called no one stupid.
however most have either not studied the history of the mideast and how Isreal actually became a state nor how much we mucked about in the name of communism so we would get the oil and not the USSR.
we(the west) did some serious nasty things in the 50's though the 80's and now its biteing us.
my reference to the media out conus was not that it was so much more factual but that it seems to have lesss political slant.
most our media reports news with a heavy balance either left or right.
if ya wish to see left news look at MSNBC, if ya wish to see the neo-con slant tune in FOX.
but there are a few overseas satilitee feeds I dont get here in the states that I do in VE, yes VE has satfeed, thats what my comments were.

you can look at the war like a fight on a cancer. a bullet to the patients head will stop cancer instantly,however its a bit tough on the patient.
its been thoughrouhly demonstrated that airstrikes cannot and will not disarm the nuts.
about the only thing the Isreali incursion and airstrikes has accomplished is to insure groups like hezbollah have recuits for many many years.
the arab/isreali conflict all goes back to the time frame of 1945-48.
we must go back and fix that screwup,somehow, before any real peace can be accomplished.
that and get Pat Robertson off the air.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: I have to agree

I am saying no one is an idiot, leave me outta that one.

Fair enough. I retract my statement to include only GQ's comment..

 

[bekosh]

Re: I have to agree

look very very closely at the pics of the chinese fighter that downed one of our P-3 aircraft a few years back. tell me who made the air to air missles under the fighters wings and where they bought them. bat ya cannot, or will not.

This one I can answer. It is a Chinese made PL-2. Which is a copy of the Russian K-13 (NATO reporting code AA-2 Atoll) which was a reverse engineered copy of the AIM-9B Sidewinder.

From Wikipedia:

The K-13 (known as R-3S in Soviet service) was developed from 1958, entering service in 1960. It was directly based on the U.S. AIM-9 Sidewinder. According to some accounts, it was acquired after a Taiwanese AIM-9B, fired by an F-86 Sabre, struck a Chinese MiG-17 without exploding during an air battle on 28 September 1958. The missile remained stuck in the MiG's fuselage and was carried back to its base. This one example provided considerable insight to Soviet engineers in the design of workable IR-guided missiles.

The Chinese F-8 before the collision.

Original story: http://starbulletin.com/2001/04/14/news/story1.html
K-13 missile on a Soviet Mig-23

Now, you weren't thinking of some whacko conspiracy theory with Israel selling US weapons to China now were you?

 

[QC]

Re: I have to agree

rodbolt,

That was one of the best posts of yours I have read. I understand the news bias, but I think most of us at least attempt to see through it from either side. I assumed at the beginning of this that you meant VE news, so I apologize for my remarks.

What I have said repeatedly though is that the history does not matter. Israel is a state and if so it deserves to defend itself from those that want to kill it. I can only assume from your comments that you would reverse the UN's "creation" of Israel, because the only solution acceptable to her enemies is destruction. Sooooooo, either they fight when they are threatened, air-strikes, ground troops, whatever, I don't care; or they must leave. I don't see how other options, discussion, debates, resolutions, understanding of history, whatever can change that.

 

[12Footer]

Re: I have to agree

Now, you weren't thinking of some whacko conspiracy theory with Israel selling US weapons to China now were you?

NICE piece of investigative homewerk, bekosh!!

 

[technostingray]

Re: I have to agree

poliitics makes strange bedfellows.

 

[--GQ--]

Re: I have to agree

Rubber, you are too quick to pull the trigger. I say lock that AK up or loose it. Unable to comprehend something is far from being an idiot. It maybe due to political blindness.

We are the most powerful nation on earth. We should not get ourselves involved with every conflicts and world hates us as a result. Remember things are always changing. Nothing stays the same. In the future we may not hold the prestigious title as the World Super power. It is a possibility that someone (China) will rise to challenge us for the position then who will back us up. Our so called Arab Allies nor any country for that matter will not back us up. As it stands right now, we have no friends, but money sucking leeches. Get your head out the mud and think critically for a moment.

I tell you another thing Rubber. I get upset when I see an unfortunate member of our society rubbles through trashs for food so she can live another day while billion of dollars are wasted in foreign aids. We need to take care of our own but you don't see this.

Bekosh, in the 80's, Israel traded Missile Technology with China to keep them(China) out the Middle East conflict. We put a stop to that long ago.

 

[technostingray]

Re: I have to agree

"Eat 'em up boy and don't spit 'em out" (Treasure of the Sierra Madres, 1948)

 

[bekosh]

Re: I have to agree

Bekosh, in the 80's, Israel traded Missile Technology with China to keep them(China) out the Middle East conflict. We put a stop to that long ago.

After digging some more, I did find a Reuters report from 2002 on Israel's weapons trading with China.

However, the missile in question is still a Chinese copy of a Russian copy of a 40 year old US missile. Not Israeli.
The only reference, that I found, to this missile being from Israel was on a rather dodgy "Christian Armegedon" site. (Don't know what else to call it. These are some real kooks! :} )
From http://www.revlu.com/

CHINA OPENED FIRE on AMERICAN PLANE!!
US PLANE ISSUED 'MAYDAY' AFTER CHINESE FIGHTER JETS
SIGNALED THEY WOULD OPEN FIRE and DID FIRE ON US!!
China's F8's carried missiles made in Israel.
Israel's sold weapons to China since the 80s.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: I have to agree

Hey bekosh, you clearly are not "deep" enough.8)

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: I have to agree

A Rubber, you are too quick to pull the trigger. I say lock that AK up or loose it. Unable to comprehend something is far from being an idiot. It maybe due to political blindness ... B I tell you another thing Rubber. I get upset when I see an unfortunate member of our society rubbles through trashs for food ... C Bekosh, in the 80's, Israel traded Missile Technology with China to keep them(China) out the Middle East conflict. We put a stop to that long ago.

You're in Fantasy Land. Wake up.

A All I did was quote your egotistical words. Here they are again: [quote user=--GQ-- uid=67419 fid=20 tid= rid=52] ...You are too deep for the mass on Iboats. Some of the folks on here got their head so far up where the sun don't shine to comprehend .... [/quote] Sounds like a pompous jerk to me.

B Can you get any further off topic? If you're so concerned about the homeless, sell that custom Taurus and donate the money.

C Prove Bekosh wrong.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: I have to agree

bekosh
I digress.
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/weapon/pl8.asp if you look closely at the wings its a sidewinder clone that was obtained from a close western ally.
its also part of why we have arms sanctions on our bestest buds today.
however they dont care as long as it pays cash.

 

[12Footer]

Re: I have to agree

Considering the big picture, all this is apples /vs /oranges anyhow!
I call your attention to Dave Abrahamsen's post, "WWIIII Speach , a C&P"
Take care in who you attack or defend.. If America is half the country I know it is, this is going to come to a head sooner rather than dan rather.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: I have to agree

http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2003_03/israelexports_mar03.asp

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1505209,00.html
just a few more for those that have the time,literacy and competency to read.
like I say, we have NO friends in the mid-east. just blood sucking leeches that help the US when conveneient.