I'LL tell on myself!

[RetNav]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

Thats a good idea. Knowing his situation the deposit would be impossible for him to come up with. I guess that cures the loaning problem.

I was also brought up with sermons from my Dad saying "neither a lender or borrower be". I guess I just forgot that sermon.

If I need a tool that I don't have I will either go buy one or rent it. Usually just
buy what I need, then try to not lend them out. Sometimes that causes me
more work as I will go with my tool and supervise/do the work myself.

 

[scrat]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

I have this particular neighbor / friend. In the past I've loaned him 3pt post driver .. had to go get it after 2 months, it was broken of course, loaned him a pull behind harrow, went and got it after 4 months, it was broken. When iasked to borrow a cultivator he said he could let me borrow it for 100.00 (he wasn't joking). I let it go. A few months later he asked to borrow my 24 ft camper. That was the straw. I'm surprised he still speaks to me after some of the things I said.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

I barrowed a boat from one of my friends older brother. Of course the motor broke while I was using it. As soon as I got into shore(after walking in the water along shore with the boat half way around the lake to get back to the landing) I took the boat straight to a mechanic and called the person I barrowed it from and told him it was broke and they were looking at it. The next day I went back and picked up the boat and paid the $75 bill and brought the boat back the him. I said thanks for letting me borrow it. He said thanks for taking care of it and getting the problem fixed.

The mechanic said that the shif linkage had broken. He also said that it had been wearing for quite a while. Therefore it wasn't my fault that it broke. But, I have always said that since it broke when I was using it, thats makes me mostly responsible if not completely responsible(depending on what went wrong, like if the engine blew up I would probably thought it was fair the split the cost) therefore I paid the whole bill, and considered myself lucky that he let me borrow it.

And there you have it. You acted in the proper way. Would that everyone did that.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

I actually have to respectfully disagree with that. That's not proper, necessarily.

If I borrow a boat from someone (I never have, but if I did) I would expect that boat to be in working condition and make it through the fishing trip and bring me back. As long as I didn't behave in an irresponsible manner and outright abuse the vessel, he should have to pay my expenses of getting a tow back to the ramp (if they apply) and pay to fix his boat. To expect me to pay when HIS boat breaks is insane, especially if it's just a happenstance break, meaning I didn't do it. I don't care who's using it, he agreed to let me borrow it, if I bring it back undamaged and unabused and its broken, to me, that's his problem, not mine.

There is an expectation by both parties, by the loaner that you won't abuse the boat and by the loanee that the boat won't break when its used. Like if you loan someone your car and it leaves them on the side of the road, that's not their fault, that's yours, as long as they were driving it normally and not abusing it. Why should it be different for a boat?

I know, most people would disagree with me, but I'm sorry. That's how I feel. You agreed to loan me the boat. Noone ever said that whatever goes wrong (what if the water pump goes out and cooks the engine, you think I'm buying them a new engine? Think again!!) while I'm using it I'll pay for, unless I hit a tree or damage it loading or unloading, regular wear and tear caused breakage isn't the responsibility of anyone but the owner.

 

[RetNav]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

I actually have to respectfully disagree with that. That's not proper, necessarily.

If I borrow a boat from someone (I never have, but if I did) I would expect that boat to be in working condition and make it through the fishing trip and bring me back. As long as I didn't behave in an irresponsible manner and outright abuse the vessel, he should have to pay my expenses of getting a tow back to the ramp (if they apply) and pay to fix his boat. To expect me to pay when HIS boat breaks is insane, especially if it's just a happenstance break, meaning I didn't do it. I don't care who's using it, he agreed to let me borrow it, if I bring it back undamaged and unabused and its broken, to me, that's his problem, not mine.

There is an expectation by both parties, by the loaner that you won't abuse the boat and by the loanee that the boat won't break when its used. Like if you loan someone your car and it leaves them on the side of the road, that's not their fault, that's yours, as long as they were driving it normally and not abusing it. Why should it be different for a boat?

I know, most people would disagree with me, but I'm sorry. That's how I feel. You agreed to loan me the boat. Noone ever said that whatever goes wrong (what if the water pump goes out and cooks the engine, you think I'm buying them a new engine? Think again!!) while I'm using it I'll pay for, unless I hit a tree or damage it loading or unloading, regular wear and tear caused breakage isn't the responsibility of anyone but the owner.

Now that I know, you won't be borrowing mine.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

Good, because if your junk leaves me out on the water I don't WANT to borrow it.

I put this scenario in front of some neutral 3rd parties and they said that if the loaner was any kind of a decent person he would offer to pay at least half since. I totally agree. Half and Half is fair.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

I actually have to respectfully disagree with that. That's not proper, necessarily.

If I borrow a boat from someone (I never have, but if I did) I would expect that boat to be in working condition and make it through the fishing trip and bring me back. As long as I didn't behave in an irresponsible manner and outright abuse the vessel, he should have to pay my expenses of getting a tow back to the ramp (if they apply) and pay to fix his boat.

Well, now. That's special. You borrowed (not rented) a boat, and it breaks down while you're using it. Then you expect the owner, who was kind enough to lend it to you, to pay for the repairs AND for a tow?

If you want that kind of service, rent a boat, don't borrow one. Many places offer rental boats. You get that kind of deal from them. That kind of attitude towards using someone else's boat is why I don't lend my boat to anyone. If I ain't on the boat, nobody uses it.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

That's fine, but if it breaks not by the fault of the driver then why should he be held accountable? He didn't break it, he was simply driving it when it broke. I didn't steal it, I borrowed it. And you let me. So you think I'm gonna put a new engine on your boat if I'm riding along and the water pump lets go? (assuming it had no temp limiting warning system like all these new engines do) You must be crazy. I would not borrow from someone who expected something like that. I loan my little boat to people I trust and I've gone into a little spot I can hide and watch how they use it, they respect it as much or more than I do so I know if it breaks, I have no problems paying for it. I wouldn't loan it to people that I thought would abuse it. I also would never loan out my boat with the expectation that if happenstance happens I hold them accountable. That, to me, is not good boating etiquette. Like I said, not damage caused by abuse, but simply use. Because if something can easily be shown that the next time I took it out it would have broken then that's not the boat drivers fault. I'd love to loan it to people like you, I wouldn't have to pay for thing! Hey man, in that case, have fun!!!! RILUSI, that is run it like you stole it! LOL

Do me a favor, you look up the legal responsibilities in this situation. You will be disappointed I believe. If you borrow someones car with their permission and the engine throws a rod riding down the interstate the financial loss is on the owner, I'm sorry. Same with a boat. Unless you can PROVE that negligence resulted in the damage to the vehicle, it's on you. I know this from watching several hundred of those "Judge *****" shows on TV. They are for TV, but they are based on real law. They're always about cars, but I think it's safe to assume the same goes for cars as boats. Plantiff sues the defendant for something that happened to their car in the course of normal operation after it was loaned out, every time it is case dismissed, no grounds to show that reasonable care wasn't taken in the operation of the vehicle.

I loan out tools all the time, now most of them you couldn't damage if you wanted to, but things like drills and volt meters, as long as you don't drop it or use it past its voltage limits, if it goes out when you use it I'm not going to expect you to pay. That's outlandish. My father borrowed my uncles torque wrench and broke it misusing it (he didn't know how to use one properly and broke something trying to adjust it) and bought him another one. That's totally fair, he broke it out of negligence. He wasn't just using it and it broke. He was literally misusing it. I think thats great he did that, he also learned a lesson too! LOL

I mean, dude, think about it. You loan your boat out and it breaks. It's ruined this guys fishing trip/outing with his family. You loaned him a POS. You're actually going to hold him accountable for that? Instead of apologizing for ruining his day with his family, you hold out your hand asking for money??

There is no way I'm the only one who thinks his way on this forum.

 

[MrBigStuff]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

Due to past experience, I do not loan out anything to anyone with the exception of very good friends who established a good reputation prior to the point I refused to do it anymore. I had to go retrieve my stuff too many times and people did not have the same respect for the stuff as I do.

I was brought up to respect/appreciate my stuff and even more so, that of others I have borrowed. I bring things back in as good or better shape than when I borrowed them. I expect the same for my stuff. As an example, a friend borrowed my hydraulic jack. When it came back, it looked like the day I bought it. He had cleaned it as a thank you for letting him use it.

That being said, I would not expect anyone to pay for something that breaks just because they happened to be using it when it broke- abuse and neglect notwithstanding. I would actually feel bad if their day was ruined bad enough that they had to walk around the lake for example. I suspect my friends would fix it if at all possible before returning it and not expect reimbusement of any kind. But I would insist and force it upon them.

In the end, they borrowed the thing and returned it. I still OWN it and now it is fixed like new and should work for years to come. In the legal sense, I have gained rather than simply made whole, so is that right?

I had a coworker/friend who told me the story of how they were going to go out with his in-laws for dinner. The in-laws insisted that he drive their car. The exhaust system fell off the thing on the way. They wanted him to replace it as he was driving when it happened. I was amazed to hear that his wife agreed it was their responsibility...

 

[CATransplant]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

Waterinthefuel,

Since I don't loan my boat, the problem will never occur. I only have one boat, and I fish from it a lot during the season. I don't have time to deal with a broken boat or engine.

A lot of the reasons loaned boats come back broken is inexperience on the part of the borrower or lack of knowledge of the water they take it to. Heck, I've busted a prop on a rock on a lake I didn't know well, and most folks who don't have boats are a lot more likely to not understand how to operate them safely or to avoid hazards.

My outboard would not break down. I keep it well-maintained. However, the inexperienced borrower (remember...he doesn't have a boat or he'd be using it) is likely to make bonehead errors, like filling the tank with fuel and leaving out the oil. He might leave the plug out at launch. He might well hit one of the many rocks around the shallow launching areas in lakes around here.

Loaning a boat is a good way to lose a friend. He thinks you should pay. You think he should pay. So, I say, "Sorry, but I don't loan my boat to anyone. But, you want to go fishing on Thursday with me?"

The solution to the problem is simple, as I said. If I'm not in the boat, it's not on the water. Ever.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

Waterinthefuel,

My outboard would not break down. I keep it well-maintained.

As long as you have this attitude, then don't ever loan your boat out because you will always see it breaking as someone else's fault. Airplanes, which see a hell of a lot more maintenance than you could ever do to your boat, have engines go out not all the time, but it certainly happens. These engines are maintained to FAA specs. No amount of maintenance guarantees an engine to be reliable. It helps, but its not carved in stone. Like I love to tell my father who is awestruck when his perfectly maintained stuff breaks and he says, "Well it was working last time I used it." My reply is simple, "Everything worked before it broke."

By your replys you repeatedly show negligence on the part of the boat owner as why they should pay. I didn't say if they damaged it, I said if it was damaged due to use then they shouldn't have to. If they hit a rock or whathaveyou, absolutely, but that's not the damage I'm talking about. I mean like the shift lever breaking when the mechanic said that it had long been an issue and would have broken anyway. At that point I would not pay as you loaned me a defective boat.

We have an exceptionally well maintained Merc 70 that runs like a clock. In the middle of the fishing trip the *brand new* water pump let go and had I not had a habit of watching the tattle tale we would have burnt the engine up. Prior to that, that engine had been extremely reliable.

Stuff happens. If you think that because you maintain something it won't break, then you have an unrealistic expectation of stuff, for one, and for another, you would never see something going wrong as your fault.

Yikes, not the attitude to have in boating. Knowing what I know about you, I would never borrow your boat. Your expectations of reliability are beyond reasonable.

 

[CATransplant]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

Yikes, not the attitude to have in boating. Knowing what I know about you, I would never borrow your boat. Your expectations of reliability are beyond reasonable.

You keep mentioning that you would not borrow my boat. I already said that I do not ever loan my boat to anyone. So, there's no issue here. I'll never have to worry about someone borrowing it and it breaking, because I do not lend it...ever. There's nothing wrong with my attitude. I simply don't believe in loaning expensive equipment. I know of a dozen boat rental places within half an hour of my home. I refer anyone who wants to borrow my boat to one of them.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

I'm saying I would not borrow your boat because you're the one with the attitude about your stuff doesn't break. You're the one defending the position opposite mine, so you are the one I am replying to. Noone else is here saying I always loan my boat out and if it just happens to break I would expect full payment no matter the reason behind it breaking, you are the only one with at least a partial of that opinion.

If someone else would come on here who actually lends his boat out and has your attitude (or the better word would be "viewpoint") then I'd reply to him.

 

[redfury]

Re: I'LL tell on myself!

It's a mixed bag when something borrowed comes back broken/in need of repair.

Yes, stuff breaks. Damage from misuse is always the operators fault, regardless of borrowed, rented or owned. Damage from wear and tear is the owners issue as it would be a maintenance item. Borrowing a boat and getting stranded is the borrowers problem for not checking out the equipment being used and/or trusting the boat owner takes good care of it where you shouldn't have any problems.

The best policy? Hard to say. It's a case by case basis. The owner and the borrower have to know each other well enough to affirm that party A isn't going to break party B's equipment, and that party B's equipment is safe to use AND that party A will fix/replace whatever HE/SHE breaks, and that party B is responsible for repairs/replacements due to honest to goodness circumstances ( water pump fails ). Regardless of how you look at it, you are rolling the dice whenever you borrow something out. The risk is really on the lender in every case. The risk is only reduced when the borrowee has proven him/herself reliable.

example? I'll borrow you a dollar to 5 dollard today. If you return that money in due course without prompting and a thank you, chances are very high that larger amounts may be lent in the future. proven: trustworthy

Make me come and get my money, avoid me, or just simply never pay....don't even bother opening your mouth to borrow ANYTHING from me. proven : untrustworthy