Inferior imported tools

jmoorepghpa

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
114
After reading an earlier post about engine stands I have an issue that has been bugging me for quite a while regarding the safety of imported tools and equipment. We hear constantly about lead paint in toys, unsafe toothpaste, drugs and poisoned dog food -- all imported ... what about guys who are hurt using defective imported tools and equipment? The professional mechanic knows the value of quality but I constantly see the inexperienced fall for the lure of cheap imported goods. I see a lot of guys buying unsafe garbage because "I'm only going to use it once". We should refuse to buy something if that piece of equipment could compromise anyones safety when it fails.... needless to say damaging our valuable property. The quality control issues with imported goods are enormous and frankly appalling. Just for the record I am not a union activist however I refuse to be the next guy on the news who got hurt or killed because of an inferior product. Tools and shop equipment are subject to sever strain and great forces and I feel we should not support an import industry that has absolutely no concern for our safety and well being. I now check everything I buy from electrical outlets to nuts and bolts to see its country of origin. I think most everyone who visits this forum has worked hard like I have to get to where they are. The thing is I need to be able to keep working hard to continue my lifestyle. We can't do that if we are disabled or dead. I hope this is the right spot to post my little speech... if not please let me know where is appropriate.
__________________
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: Inferior imported tools

Use of tools and equipment from any source is risky and injury is usually the fault of the operator. And it's also great that you feel you need to buy American. Keeps you busy looking doesn't it. I have an engine hoist that was made in China, my engine stand was made in China, all of my air tools are made in China (years ago) and everything still works fine. My neighbor came over with a brand new Sears impact wrench a few days ago that was made here and asked me to check it as it didn't seem to have much power. He was right. I could stop the thing with my bare hands. Mine will break your wrist if you could hang onto it. So much for quality. The brake rotors that came on my last new car lasted 20,000 miles. They were replaced with rotors from China and the car was sold with over 100,000 miles and the same rotors were functioning normally. It would be great if everything was made here as it was many years ago. Instead of complaining about China, why not sit down and think a little bit about "why" things are made off shore. No -- the evil corporations are not to blame. They could keep manufacturing here and go broke in the process so there must be other reasons. All you need to do is think about it. Remember when Japan was the place to have things made. Then it was Singapore, then Korea, currently China, tomorrow it will be India, and after that Iraq, and Pakistan. Does that sound rather "cyclic" to you? Perhaps down the road we will again have a few college grads that actually know how to design and build things rather than turning out a bunch of lawyers and non-technical grads that jump on the local, state and federal government gravy train. Look at it this way -- if you can't keep up with the cost of living, what do you do? You have a few choices you know. You can retrain for a better job (heaven forbid you might have to two things for awhile). You could do the bankrupt deal but you will be back in the same boat a few years down the road. You could move to an area where your current skills are more in demand. Or you could go on welfare. Lastly, you could go into business and see first hand what it's like. It costs less than $500 to become a Corporation -- have at it and live the American dream. But if you plan to manufacture anything and employ lots of people you better plan on doing it offshore. Corporations are no different only their choices are more limited. You either stay here and go broke and close the door, or you go where you can to reduce costs of doing business. Raise prices you say. Ahhh -- good thought and that's exactly why American auto makers can't compete with the foreign manufacturers. With about a 4:1 difference in employee benefits costs you simply can't compete. You can't fire anyone anymore, you can't find qualified people except foreigners who really want to work, they are taxed, the unions have them hamstrung (government and auto related industries are the worst in that regard), people demand job security (it can't happen as life doesn't work that way), and now people are crying about their premiums for health care. But are they giving up smoking, huge car/SUV payments, houses they can't afford even in good times, heck no. Government regulations, goverment interference, and Americans poor financial responsibility got us where we are today. Yes I'm an American and yes I am a business owner. I'm outa here -- blood pressure you know!
 

pine island fred

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Dec 20, 2002
Messages
1,144
Re: Inferior imported tools

Well said SILVERTIP, you sound like a bit of a libertarian to me. When I changed wheel assys, started to notice in the 70s, the tires were made in ISREAL and INDIA, no longer USA although they had goodyear or firestone on them. Serious stuff, 24 or 26 plyes, 225 mph rated. Was a good product!
Could never bring myself to buy snap on tools but used s&k wayne or cornwell. Later found that japaneese tools had improved to the point that it was worth my while to purchase them. Paying a high price for somethings does not mean it is a good product. People will always go for the lower price item if it works for them. Look how the public has flocked to the low cost air carriers, they would agree to be pushed around and kept on the ramp for hours to save $ 50. FRED
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: Inferior imported tools

I consider myself a "realist". We are in a global economy and by gosh Americans had better wake up to the fact that they better learn to compete and stop blaming everyone but themselves for their own inadequate education, job skills, work ethic, poor planning ability, poor understanding of economics, and generally don't know how to manage their lives. They simply expect the government to do it for them. In many states, nearly half the working population are federal, state, county, city and school system emplyees or welfare recipients living off the backs of those of us in the private sector. Get the government out of your lives and you will live very happily. The only people I talk to that want socialized medicine and government health care are those that already get it for free (and the unions of course). Go anywhere they have socialized medicine and see how long it takes you to have elective surgery.

Actually -- this is getting way off topic so Mr Moderator, feel free to dump this as its beginning to turn political.
 

jal

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
76
Re: Inferior imported tools

Silvertip for president. You have hit the nail on the head. To bad the hammer is made off shore and the head is American.
John
 

JMRuth72

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
125
Re: Inferior imported tools

I don't like inferior tools and it doesn't matter where they come from. I always look over a tool before I buy it and if it looks cheap I won't buy it. I don't really care where it is made, what I care about is whether they will last, won't injure or kill me and if it does break how quickly can I get a replacement. A good example is craftsman, I love their handtools don't care much for their power tools anymore. I rarely have a problem with their hand tools and when I do it is usually because I screwed up. Their power tools I have had several problems with lately and have decided I won't buy them anymore. Price is only a slight consideration and that is whether I will have to wait to buy it or not. That old adage "you get what you pay for" is just not true anymore. Otherwise I agree a lot with Silvertip, us Americans need to wake up and smell the coffee. Hurts to say but unfortuneatly it is true.
 

JMRuth72

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
125
Re: Inferior imported tools

P.S. I don't however see a thing political about what Silvertip said. I see the cold hard truth. I have also said for a long time that if you don't like this country there are 360 degrees worth of exits, pick one and LEAVE!!!
 

Frank Acampora

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
12,004
Re: Inferior imported tools

Fact still remains that Great Neck tools are not even worth stealing. They are inadequate to do the job for which the were designed, and will not last even if babied. And while I do see some quality merchandise coming out of China, My opinion is that as far as tools, they still can not make good steel.

Price is not always an indication of quality. A few years back, because they were on sale at K Mart for the rediculously low price of 6 bucks, I bought a set of double box end wrenches made in Brazil. Figured "Oh, what the hell." Turned out that the steel quality was good, forging quality was good, the wrenches had enough meat in them to take abuse, and the design was excellent. Matt finish chrome plating which does not look quality but in this case, looks are deceiving. Matt finish keeps a greasy tool from slipping. Best 6 bucks I ever spent on tools.


It is true we are looking toward a world economy and Americans better be ready--Too much service jobs and not enough manufacturing (which is the only way for a country to build wealth--value added) and we are destined to become a 3rd world country.

It is my personal view that because money trumps everything---including sex-- as business becomes more global, artificial borders will not be so important and wars will cease. Because even though in the past, war was good for the bottom line of a country and its businesses, NO MULTINATIONAL is going to want to fight itself or have some of its facilities destroyed over politics--bad for business. And if you still think that politicos are not in bed with big business---I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: Inferior imported tools

Too many skeletons in my closet to run for president. Besides only egotists and lawyers want that job. With nearly half the working public on some form of government payroll, what chance do you think a person with my beliefs have. I do however, have a story about how taxes work -- perhaps you've seen it before. Those on welfare should be able to grasp this concept but they probably won't believe it until it hits home some day. Here goes:

Every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would
go something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day
and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. He said, Since you are such good customers, I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the first four men were unaffected and thought this was really cool.
They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men -- the
paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share'? They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth
man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So the bar owner
suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the
same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay!
And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).
Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued
to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to
compare their savings.
I only got a dollar out of the $20, declared the sixth man. He pointed
to the tenth man, but he got $10!
Yeah, that's right, exclaimed the fifth man. I only saved a dollar, too.
It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!
That's true, shouted the seventh man. Why should he get $10 back when I
got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!
Wait a minute, yelled the first four men in unison. We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill,
they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!
And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our
tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit
from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up any more. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier. For those who understand, no further explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible. Do you think this has any bearing on why jobs are going offshore?
 

rogerwa

Commander
Joined
Nov 29, 2000
Messages
2,339
Re: Inferior imported tools

I don't normally buy cheap tools other than something I view as expendable or limited use. For example, I bought a pneumatic impact hammer from Harbor Freight for about $9. It took the tile off my bathroom floor and I haven't used it since. Worked great and I didn't spend $100. I did buy a HF 18v screw driver and again it fits the bill for $39. I would love a DeWalt, Milwaukee, or Makita, but I can get 4 or 5 of these for that price.

I also wonder how you can expect someone to run a business when you cannot control the single largest cost that you have.. Labor.

Everyone views the management as evil. Sorry, they are trying to run the business and make a profit, which is what the business is there for. The Labor organizations and Gov't are the real business killers.

What most don't understand is that business is the engine of our country and our economy. It sure ain't social programs and job security.
 

jmoorepghpa

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Apr 17, 2006
Messages
114
Re: Inferior imported tools

Wow. Lots of good points. I do understand the economic and political issues and agree things have to change here. I believe there are good imported products to be had and in some cases a lower price item that will be purchased for limited use is absolutely a good choice. What I am concerned about is quality control especially on items where even when used properly failure could result in serious injury. I think we are in a place where there is limited accountabilty on the part of foreign manufacturors for goods produced to be sold in this country. This is the price we pay for cheap products. I suppose one of my biggest concerns is steel and metal quality. I have seen things fail in items due to bad metal and/or poor welds which have had little effect other than to inconvenience me for a little bit. The point I suppose I was trying to make is we should look at an item and expect it to fail and decide what it means to us if it does. If a cheap angle grinder wears out thats ok but I'm going to go ahead and pay a little (actually a lot) more for a chain hoist. Without the huge and burdensome threat of our legal system and lawyers hanging over their heads foreign manufacturors tend to be a bit less inclined towards a consistant, safe quality product. Good, bad or indifferent thats where we stand. Silvertip is right on the money - it does keep you buisy looking for something made in America if you decide thats what you want. I got a Craftsman Professional jointer/planer for Christmas. I could tell from the cardboard the box was made out of--- you guessed it...made in China. You can bet I double checked everything on it before I started using the thing. So far so good but it still kind of gives me the heebies.
 

JMRuth72

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
125
Re: Inferior imported tools

There are several things that I see wrong at the moment with this country. 1.) Is that you apparently have the right to sue a business for your ignorance. Case in point that women that went through the drive thru at McD's orders a cup of coffee and then spills it in her lap and gets burned. She sues and wins millions. Why? Because she is stupid. If you order a cup of coffee you should expect it to be hot. DUH!! I am not saying that there are good reasons to sue someone, it just should not be allowed when it is due to ignorance.
2.) Expecting manufacturers to make inherently dangerous items safe enough that any 5 year old should be able to use them. Lets get real, somethings you just can not make "safe" the single best safety is between your ears. If you don't use it and pay attention then you are probably going to get hurt. It is not the businesses fault. Case in point I have an antique table saw that doesn't have a blade guard. I have now used it several times including ripping some really narrow pieces and have not cut myself because when I am using it I pay attention to where my hands are and where the blade it. There are just some things that you are going to cut on one that you can use a guard.
3.) People seem to expect our government to protect us. Yeah right.. They don't even do a decent job of taking care of our military members how do you expect them to care for everyone else. If we stop expecting the government to take care of us and take care of ourselves then things would also probably get better.

This is the short list. I know that I could go on, but why. The point is this if we stop maliciously sueing people and businessed they could spend less on insurance and lawyers then they could spend more on labor and materials. Same is true of people that could get off of welfare actually did then the government would spend less money and might be able to actually drop the tax rate a little. If we actually take care of ourselves and stop expecting everyone else to watch out for us we would all have to spend less money to protect our assets. I don't know if I made this clear enough it is hard to explain, but I hope that y'all get the idea.
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: Inferior imported tools

We have a generation that just reached voting age and you can see what's going to happen come November. If you think taxes are bad now, hang onto your wallets. When Mr. O takes over the reins you will see government spending like you've never seen before. Remember back when high end boats were heavily taxed. That industry tanked in a hurry. Remember when their were a bunch of small aircraft manufacturers in this country. You got it, the lawyers sued them and insurance companies priced them out of business too. That industry was making progress however, but it's a shell of what it used to be. Someone can mark it on their calendar -- one year from this date my business will be closed out of disgust, not because of financial ruin. I simply refuse to play this foolish game where they tax those who provide the jobs so they can treat their supporters to free health care, free transportation, subsidized housing, free meals, and pay them to sit on their arses while they continue to breed and make another generation of panhandlers. I'm done here. By the way, Minnesota just passed a gas tax increase that should go to roads but instead the bulk of that money goes for light rail in the metro Twin Cities area so the free loaders in our society have a way to get around. Welcome to our state where absolutely nothing is allowed and where the dregs of society come to get their free stuff.
 

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: Inferior imported tools

I guess i am lucky we make soap AND China can BUT it cost to much to ship and not many stores trust them ;)

I guess i gotta thank the FDA for all those rules


BUT in reality Long Island is a costly place to make stuff BUT we have invested in so much good machinery that we are the sole supply for many items in all the wallyworld type stores in the USA


I think they kinda of hate it BUT nobody can do it cheeper WITHOUT having to recall it :eek:

And are area is full of companys doing the same thing Marks USA is right next store making locks
getImage.php


And the street is FULL of others :)

Tommays
 

pine island fred

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Dec 20, 2002
Messages
1,144
Re: Inferior imported tools

When you guys have lots of time, suggest you read ATLAS SHRUGGED by AYN RAND. Also 1984 pretty much mirrors our govt. controlls today. FRED
 

donnymac

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
99
Re: Inferior imported tools

Geez, I think it's bad for young soldiers losing they lives for reasons uncertain. Now I see there's even more going on than the evening news says. In the province of British Columbia our premier is pro business, he is doing lots to make it viable to start and run a business. Tax breaks etc. So I'm heading to Oregon tonight and buy some tax free stuff for the boat. Weird isn't it?
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: Inferior imported tools

Donnymac - dying for reasons uncertain??? Where were you on 9/11? Oh -- that's right you were home with your feet up listening to the liberal medial tell you that we deserved that event. For gosh sakes Britain is dealing with these yo-ho's on a daily basis. If you took a few minutes and listened to those that have been there, you will find that Iraq is coming around and half of what you are being told by the liberal media is not true. Just a thought here but our soldiers are dying to keep America safe so you can come here and buy stuff for your boat. And of course your taxes are so low in Canada that you really don't need to come here. I won't even go into the universal health care issue.
 

rogerwa

Commander
Joined
Nov 29, 2000
Messages
2,339
Re: Inferior imported tools

Silvertip, we are on the same page.. That light rail comes at about 80Mil a mile, can not sustain itself, and will not reduce congestion. 8 1/2 cents a gallon increase.. I'm p.o'd to say the least.
 

donnymac

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
99
Re: Inferior imported tools

Donnymac - dying for reasons uncertain??? Where were you on 9/11? Oh -- that's right you were home with your feet up listening to the liberal medial tell you that we deserved that event. For gosh sakes Britain is dealing with these yo-ho's on a daily basis. If you took a few minutes and listened to those that have been there, you will find that Iraq is coming around and half of what you are being told by the liberal media is not true. Just a thought here but our soldiers are dying to keep America safe so you can come here and buy stuff for your boat. And of course your taxes are so low in Canada that you really don't need to come here. I won't even go into the universal health care issue.

Yeah your right , maybe I won't bother coming. I'll just sit back and watch the demise.
 

rernst

Seaman
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Messages
60
Re: Inferior imported tools

I don't normally buy cheap tools other than something I view as expendable or limited use. For example, I bought a pneumatic impact hammer from Harbor Freight for about $9. It took the tile off my bathroom floor and I haven't used it since. Worked great and I didn't spend $100. I did buy a HF 18v screw driver and again it fits the bill for $39. I would love a DeWalt, Milwaukee, or Makita, but I can get 4 or 5 of these for that price.

Ditto. I buy good tools for those used regularly, and usually Harbor Freight for one time or seldom used tools. I've got one of their $20 "sawzall" that did the job I needed done.
 
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