is it damaged?

[rodbolt]

Re: is it damaged?

post me the seriel number and sometime during the week I can look up any warrenty info as well as any tech bullitens.<br /> I know its a pain but keep calling and keep all your workorders and records. there are a few others that can and will handle your situation. I dont know any reps in your area but if the warrenty records indicate it there may be someone in kennesaw I can talk to.

 

[Al Kungel]

Re: is it damaged?

After three trips to clean the carb of oil it was discovered that the oil level was rising because of a bad fuel pump, and that was pumping gas into the oil and making everything run poorly<br />I am having difficulty understanding how a bad fuel pump can pump gas into the oil. I would think in order for the gas to get into the oil it would have to come through the cylinder and past the piston. Is it possible that the thermostat is not working properly and thereby the engine is not coming up to proper operating temperature which leaves unburnt fuel to be washed into the oil. My 2cents.

 

[garyN]

Re: is it damaged?

AIK<br /><br />I am not a tech, but as I understand it with a mechanical fuel pump, if the diaphram inside is broken it will let the fuel mix directly with the oil in the crankcase (on a four stroke).<br /><br />You are right that it may also come past pistons - but if the barrier inside the pump is compromised then the gear driving the pump allows the fuel to "pump" into the engine and, as some of the manufactures call it, "make oil".<br /><br />Anyhow, the reason that is important is that oil is what protects the engine from wear, and diluted oil doesn't do a good job of that. <br /><br />Also, once the oil level is increased it pushes past all the valves and rings, then drips out of the carb, when the engine is tilted up on the transom (at least mine did/does).<br /><br />This is a great board.<br /><br />Gary

 

[garyN]

Re: is it damaged?

Rodbolt,<br /><br />You are really going over and above the call of duty,, but I appreciate it very much.<br /><br />If you prefer I will e-mail directly to you Yahoo address but as for now.<br /><br />The Primary id is 6G8X 790443, model T9.9EXHZ<br /><br />I purchased it new from a dealer in San Diego (drove 45 miles) in August of 2001 , actually went way of of my way to buy the Yamaha because I was convinced it was superior to all the others (read Honda). That dealer did the original service, and while I don't have the checklist I was there while he did it and he explained all the operatins to me. That dealer, as part of his purchase price included the first 10 hour (I think) service) and he did that.<br /><br />Then, about 8 months later he went out of business, so I went to my closest authorized dealer, here in Oceanside CA (AA Marine).<br /><br />They have done the services like the water pump. As I understand it none of these trips to the dealer are in the Yamaha system, only the warranty one's. Anyhow, I presented it with poor running and surging - they called Yamaha and were "authorized to clean the carb", gave it back and told me to run it, it seemed to run better for a while, then it acted up again so I took it back, this time, after 4 weeks, the put a new carb on it under warranty. Gave it back and it didn't run that well but seemed OK - I was getting used to it being kind of tempermental. Then I used it for while and put up with it before I could not get it to start without 10-15 miutes of frustration. Back to the dealer who found "oil over full" and said customer did it, even though I told him that was impossible (I know how to measure quarts and liters. <br /><br />So they cleaned it up and told me it was running good - took it back, ran worse than ever. Took it back, they "torture tested" it in the tank and it smoked like crazy. Then they checked the oil (that they had changed) and It was over full again" So they check the fuel pump and find a cracked diaphram - and implied that it may not have been installed properly from the factory.<br /><br />So they put in the new fuel pump and it still runs badly in the tank, at least they stopped making me pick it up and carry it the quarter mile down my dock. So, they call Yamaha and it is agreed to replace the carb again? Why, I don't know. And that is where it stands. <br /><br />Gary N.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: is it damaged?

hello<br /> someplace in somebody's records there should be a PDI (pre delivery inspection) sheet. some dealers dont use them even though its supposed to be a requirement. some dealers just gundeck the checks. In my unique case if I cheked the box I checked the system cause I have to sign my name on the line for the techs signature. I will run the numbers through the yds and see what pops up. you definatly have a dealer/technician problem. I would still ask to see the bad part but dont ask till they have the motor ready. if they do it under warrenty yamaha will require them to hold the part for 90 days. it will be the first actuall bad one I ever saw. the explanation they are giving you for the oil dripping from the airbox is total Horse shoot. if by some wiered act of alien intervention you could actually get enough oil in a cylinder to run out the carb your engine would have a case of Hydrostatic lock. usually its due to oil vapors collecting in the airbox and condensing and then dripping out the airbox. could also be someting as dumb as they left the crankcase breather hose off.<br /> the reason I asked for a compression test is simple<br /> if they do it find a more knowledgeble set of techs. on the tiny mite motors a leak down test is the only way to accuratly determine cyl seal. be it valves,rings or head gasket. the compression test is as valuable as teats on a boar hog.the very first thing that must be done is verify cyl sealing. then cam timing and valve clearence. your motor has been monkey puked so long that I would do a complete diagnostics to make sure you have no technician induced failures.<br /> did you sign a PDI sheet when you originally purchased the motor. <br /> when they did the so called torture test. was it with your propeller or was it with the correct diagnostic test wheel? part #yb1627 and it should turn 4000-4200 with the test wheel installed.<br /> if the test was performed in a tank with your propellor all you proved was it will swish water around. the motor would be lugging so bad no other results would be valid.so there is a lot to look at before you get mad with yamaha. call the customer service people back if this last repair is not satifactory and ask them to reccomend a dealer with more knowledgable techs.

 

[garyN]

Re: is it damaged?

Hey Rodbolt<br /><br />I am getting really ovewelmed with more problems, I doubt very much they pull the prop. Last time I took it in they asked me to put it into the tank, and I did. No test wheel that I know of.<br /><br />As for the compresson test, I asked for it over the phone and they agreed to do it. We will see.<br /><br />The last thing I need now is to be told to start over with another dealer. It will cost me, at least, $400.00 just to get this one out of this shop (plus the $180 I paid on the last visit). I am getting screwed - and I think you are right (at least in part about the tech problem) but this is the authorized dealer and he claims he wants to fix my engine and make me happy. <br /><br />Sorry to say that this whole Yamaha / dealership experience has me wondering what a consumer should do. I purchased this engine because by old two stroke was not reliable enough for ocean cruising, now my "new" yamaha has been even worse.<br /><br />How do I get someone at the company to really try to help me. The guys I called where you work just wanted to blame me and the dealer. <br /><br />I am being forced to learn way to much -and I have owned at least a dozen other outboards, non of which ever gave me problems like this during the first years of ownership. <br /><br />Gary

 

[CatTwentyTwo]

Re: is it damaged?

I can appreciate your frustration Gary. I have a 1995 9.9 high thrust motor and am not happy with it either. The bad part is that you just know Yamaha makes great motors, and if you could get someone at the factory level to listen, you would most likely have a positive ownership experience. Yamaha should hire rodbolt and put him in that position.

 

[garyN]

Re: is it damaged?

ryoung<br /><br />Agreed, however, Yamaha doesn't appear to be aware they are missing the opportunity to own this market. Good customer service is everything.<br /><br />I have not been contacated by anyone from Yamaha, even after three phone calls and two letters in the past 3 weeks. <br /><br />I will find a 'hidden' warranty of these engins and let you know if it will help you. What is the history of your engine.<br /><br />Gary

 

[garyN]

Re: is it damaged?

Please, anyone<br /><br />Can you help me get the name and # for the District Sercive Rep for Southern California.<br /><br />I know they have one and the job descriptions says they are to deal directly with customers, but customer service denies haveing anyone sho will deal with customers and the Tech's only talk to dealers. I am getting really frustrated. I am in Oceanside, CA 92054.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Gary N

 

[rodbolt]

Re: is it damaged?

hello<br /> patience<br /> i have entered all the id info into yes. i am waiting on a reply<br /> but i am warning you. if you call them and get nasty and slam the product you will be at the bottom of the list. i have delt with manufactures and field reps for almost 30 years. if you tweek their cookies you will never get service. your dealer is the one to tweek not yamaha.<br /> a short story of what I went through in 91 while working for a merc dealer. we sold a motor,a 200HP merc, to a customer. it tossed #1 rod in about 4 days. the registration had still not been processed at fondu lac. so it was a few weeks while we had been disscussing this with mercs warrenty dept. the guy called us everyday sometimes twice a day and was such a dip that the dealership owner wished he had never sold it to this customer. but we were making progress and had a warrenty autherization when mercs warrenty dept called and said everything is on hold until further notification. seems the guy wrote a very nasty letter slamming everybody connected with merc and all merc products. the kicker was he wrote he had retained a lawyer and gave merc the lawyers contact info. the warrenty dept gave it to legal and the man did not get a power head for almost 14 months.<br /> yamaha does not have many product issues and is very good about resolving things even out of warrenty. however if you write nasty letters and its a dealer issue not a yamaha one you will hit a wall. yamaha provides free training to all the techs. all it cost is transportation meals and lodging. however even some factory trained techs are rather sloppy and rely more on luck than skill to find a problem.once the motor is confirmed as corrected with a run on a test wheel and a shop tach you MUST confirm it will turn a minimum of 5K at wot on your hull. the prop that was supplied in the box may or may not be correct and you cant just tell by ear.I will try to assist you but I think you have a dealer/tech issue not a yamaha one. the right dealer can and will assist and if this has been ongoing, a good dealer that has a good relationship with the service reps can do a lot more than you think.

 

[garyN]

Re: is it damaged?

Rodbolt<br /><br />Again, more good info from you. Be assured that I am not a hot head and I pride myself on being deplomatic. No only do I not want to threaten lawsuits but I don't want to do that at all (and really should not have to).<br /><br />My thinking is that, if I can speak directly to the district rep, we will find a solution to this problem. I don't understand why they are hiding that guy from me - Isn't it his job?<br /><br />You deserve a lot of credit for following thorugh on this for me (and the others).<br /><br />As for the prop on this engine and the RPM, I have never had a tachometer on it, but it is pushing a fairly light sailboat, with a keel, at around 3,000 pounds and it reaches hull speed of 7 knots. I am unaware of any other pitch prop they make for the "power thrust models". The big prop was one of the features I really likes about this 9.9. <br /><br />Thanks,

 

[butlp]

Re: is it damaged?

rodbolt,<br />With all due respect, if I had been the person in your example with the 200 Merc, I think I would have blown my top too.<br />Firstly, the dealer should have taken responsibility and replaced the motor immediately, with only 4 days in service the owner should not be subjected to Mercury's snail pace warranty process.<br />I too would have talked to a lawyer with such crappy service from both the dealer and manufacture, especially after they had my money and I had a 4 day old boat anchor.<br />You make these manufactures reps sound like Primadonna's, they get upset when someone calls them about problems with their product. If I acted like that with my clients, I'd be out of business in a week. Has the boat motor industry not heard the phrase "Customer Service". It's a good job I had not heard this story before I placed the order for my two new Merc's.

 

[garyN]

Re: is it damaged?

UPDATE<br /><br />Finally, the guy from Yamaha customer service called me directly, he was polite and tried to explain the issue (as they see it). <br /><br />Now they are jumping on the dealer as having mis-diagonsed my problem. And that, they say, is not their problem. I disagreed since Authorized service = authorized agent. When he told me I should consider changing dealers I told him they should consider dropping dealers who they are being told do bad service. It was a stand off.<br /><br />Anyhow, we made some small progress and he was not going to budge very much on giving me anyting big. It was agreed that I would try to get the engine back and see if it was working. It isn't over yet -and it only took me 10 hours to get their attention. <br />Will post another update as I think it is unlikely that the engine is fixed./<br /><br />Gary N.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: is it damaged?

lost canadian<br />] its not quite as simple as that<br /> same as if the motor in your truck tossed a rod 4 days after you took delivery. there is a certain amount of paper work and diagnostics remember this was before the days of electronic warrenty work. and most the time it will take 7 days to two weeks to recieve the powerhead depending on what warehouse its coming from and do they have that particular one in stock.<br /> I have many warrenty horror stories from Porsche,Mazda,VW and some GM. more from suzuki some from merc and very little from yamaha. most my yamaha horror stories are dealer caused.<br />I have worked for and been trained my many dealerships. in fact I started this career in Vallejo CA. mabye 2 years ago .<br />see at the lowly dealer level they cannot autherize powerhead,much less complete engine replacement. and at my lowly tech level there is only so much I can do.<br /> GaryN<br /> the only thing I can find is a carb replacement in febuary of 2004. no record of any PDI sheets or any other dealer prep work.the warrenty seems to have expired in aug 2004.<br />my advice is to find a dealer that will listen to your story and call yamaha for you. if they have a good working relationship with the factory reps and since this problem was ongoing I dont see much trouble getting the entire repair covered. but you must have all the workorders from all service and repair work.if you have reciepts for ring free and fuel stabilizer and any other yamaha service accessories it will help.<br /> trying to look over your posts and reviewing the YES data it looks like you have been the unfortunate subject of either poorly trained techs or techs that just dont care. either way its still your motor. I have worked at shops like that. briefly. I told one owner its your shop and my reputation and left. never collected my day of pay .<br /> so now we are back to dealers.<br /> try the better business bureu in your area. you may also want to try to find a yamaha dealer that is inland on the small water.<br /> I personally hate to work on tiny mites anymore.(anything under a V4 is a tiny mite) cause in my area its all v4 and v6. in texas it was all 1 -3 cyl stuff. in norfolk VA we had a lot of lakes with a 10hp limit so we did a large volume of tinymites. a dealership that is used to large volumes of small motor work will have more experience with your engine class. after the second carb job that motor should have had a full diagnostics to include a session in the test tank or a transom with a test wheel.<br /> I have a customer with a 26 grady and a sx225 with an F15 kicker. every year I do the kicker carb. the main motor has 31 hours on it the kicker may have 5.every spring he comes and uses it for a few days then it sits in the dry stack till next year. that is not a warrenty issue. so if I were in your shoes I would ask the yamaha customer service people for a reccomendation of a dealer that may be more experienced with your engine. I wish I could give you some numbers but I cant<br /> they would have to shoot me . but on your next call ask yamaha about finding another dealer. or maybe this time they may get it right

 

[CatTwentyTwo]

Re: is it damaged?

Gary, any response from Yamaha has to be cause for encouragement and must be considered good news. The issue with my motor is not related to your problem and as it is a ten year old motor, I have just chalked this one up to experience and will look into something else the next time this motor lets me down. The sad thing is this motor probably has less than fifty hours on it. If you ever find a dealer that you have confidence in, no matter what make, please let me know as I am sure that is key. Good luck

 

[garyN]

Re: is it damaged?

Rodbolt<br /><br />I have agreed with much of what you have said - but this passing the buck on the dealership is BS. If Yamaha has a dealer listed as "authorized" then a customer should know that some level of expertise exists there - or they have access to the hot line to Yamaha to get help. Authorized is like an Agent, the guy appointing them cannot avoid liability because the agent is bad. When an agent acts it is the same as if the principle acts - so Yamaha is really pointig the finger at itself.<br /><br />For example. in the automobile world, a "lemon" can be from manufacturing defects or negligent repair- it doesn't matter. If a VW was good on the assemply line, but the dealership either fails to find a problem and fix it in the necessary three tries it is still a lemon and VW (the croproation) is liable, not the dealer.<br /><br />Yamaha needs to take this to heart - maybe they need to send in some test engines to quesionable dealers and see what is up - like on the news, fix itup with a simple problem and see if the dealer either cannot fix it or overcharges for stuff. Abusing a warranty charge is the same as overbilling a customer.<br /><br />I will not be forced to do Yamaha's job for them and help weed out bad or uninformed dealers. In americal today, to be a good product means having a good dealer network - I can tell the Yamaha is missing that boat. I can also tell you why!. In speaking with the customer service rep he let out that Yamaha Motors is only the "importer" of these engines. (not really true as under the law they are in fact held to be the "manufacturer". But by creating this fantasy exception they gloss over the real duty of the manufacturer. Someone in the company should really rewite the whole business plan. <br /><br />What they want to to buy from Japan and sell at a profit. What the consumer whats is to buy from the guy who makes it and stands behind it.<br /><br />I am planning on going to the air resource board her in California CARB and lodge complaints that these small engines are not meeting the ruled imposed by the clean water and air act. Let Yamaha deal with that reality, my engine poluted worse thatn a two stroke and dumped gas in the water. <br />The most amazing thing here is that Yamaha will not simply do the right thing and put an extended warranty on my engine (I even offered to pay for it). They know that they have a problem that they think they can solve by tiring the customer out with multiple trips to other dealershipt and and engine that, when sold because it is such a pain in the neck, has no warranto fo rth enext buyer.<br /><br />Lousy business plan that I will not buy into.<br /><br />Gary

 

[rodbolt]

Re: is it damaged?

hello<br /> if I copuld wave my magic wand and make the incompetent dealers and techs dissapear I would have long ago. however with contracts and legal issues its not that easy. incompetene is really not grounds to cancel a binding dealership franchise. I have seen auto dealerships that had moneys working for them. we have one here in my area. the chevy house in my area is about as incompetent as they get but the only game for 60 miles or so.they do have a few very competent ones. those we tip well under the table to insure they get the workorder. is it right? nope. its the way it is. I do understand your frustration. I get it a lot. usually after the customer paid someone else to fix it then I get it and have to refix it and correct the tech induced problems as well. now the guy is mad and sometimes takes it out on me. so it goes back tofinding a dealer that has a good relationshipwith the tech and warrenty departments and get your problem resolved.<br /> we have a dealership in the area that has really no service dept. they sell motors in the box to anyone with no PDI and out the back door. they sell them to the general public cheaper than most dealers here can buy them. most dealers I contract for will run the primary ID. if the motor was purchased at the blow out place they either wont work on it or they will say it will be 3 to 6 months before we can look at it. warrenty work always cost the dealer money. well almost always.<br /> how long before you are supposed to pick the motor up from the latest repairs?

 

[garyN]

Re: is it damaged?

Rodbolt<br /><br />Today I discovered that this dealer didn't know that just issuing an authorization # would not automatically ship the part(s). I have been waiting two weeks fo rthe new carb and it was never ordered until today,<br /><br />Also, you will get a kick out of this one, when the new fuel pump arrived at the dealer the tech noticed it looked different (it had been redisigned to allow the water line to circulate over it to cool the fuel and avoid vapor lock). Anyhow, because it was different he decided to take it apart and put the parts into my Old fuel pump housing? This is like brain dead. Today he told me he took the diaphram out and put it nack into the new pump.<br /><br />I am really frustarted - but I think Yamaha is not really stepping up - and this dealership issue is apparantly a real problem here in California. They need to set some standards and procedures.<br /><br />Most likely I won't see my engine back for another 10 days - let's see, droped it off December 21 - luck if I see it by first week of February. <br /> Yamaha wanted to close my file today and I absolutely said NO way, not till I get it back. It is really sad that the company can hide behind bad service and then try to act like it's isn't their problem - The buck stops with the name on the engine, and it should not be a gamble to go to the closest authorized dealer. <br /><br />In medicine, this is how bad doctors kill people, while the big guys look the other way. <br /><br /> <br /><br /><br />Gary

 

[rodbolt]

Re: is it damaged?

garyn<br /> just from reading the posts you getting a roay puck. if you were closer I may could help. <br /> I looked up the fuel pump and did not see where the 9.9 had a water cooling.<br /> pick it up when they are done. but. when you pick it up ask to see a cold start in the tank with the correct test wheel installed. then ask to see a warm up and a full throttle run for at least 20 min in the tank with the correct test wheel. ask for it in writing. if they cannot or will not comply you have more documentation.<br /> I have a dealer here that may assist if there is more documentation that the current servicing dealer canot repair it,

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: is it damaged?

Gary,<br /><br />I am soooooooooo glad it turned out you did not have a Nissan.