Is Schematic in the House ?

[troyo]

Sorry for the new thread, but I'm desparate.I have a 70hp Nissan 2 cylinder, 1988 model. Motor was tilting up ok, but intermittenly would trim down, getting stuck about as often as it worked. The motor was running though. I took motor apart, base was still on boat, the middle part that had the brushes came off. Clean, brushed and blew it out.. Reinstalled the same way it came off ( I think/hope) hooked everything up, now nothing. The soelenoids click, but motor does nothing. I tried wiring motor straight to the battery to test, and again nothing. Problems appears to be with the motor somewhere. Odd in that it worked before I took it apart. The only piece that came off was a little magnet/metal piece and spring that the wires connected to. I put them back the same as the one that was still on, and here I am. This center housing with the brushes slides over the cone that was still affixed to the bottom piece, and these two little magnets spring back to fit over the cone, then make contact with upper portion of same. Please help. I find it hard to believe that merely taking it apart and cleaning it would make the motor not work any more. Local repair guy is giving me the line that once you break the seal on the motor, you cant reseal it. Says it would take 2-3 hours bench time to test it out, so for that, I may as well replace it ( to the tune of $436 plus 3 hours labor at $60/hr. ) I have seen other posts where these can be rebuilt/ cleaned etc. How can I test it/fix it, as I don't have that kind of money ???????

 

[Trent]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

Take it back apart. Sand the armature (cone as you call it) with non-carbon sandpaper til it looks shiny copper. Re-install and make sure the brushes are clean also.<br /><br />Is this a two or a three wire motor?

 

[troyo]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

three wires, red, black and green; I take it all hope is not lost then ??? I assume the bruses are the copper wires that are wrapped along the side of this center piece ? THey don't lookw like a wire brush per se. How do I clean the brushes ?

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

troyo, its been years since i rebuilt dc motors, but it sounds like you are mistaking the windings on the armature for brushes. the center part is what spins, and the brushes are the little blocks on the ends of the wires with the springs. the 'brushes' have to deliver the current to the armature. make sure the copper wires aren't touching anything, look for little burnt/weld spots inside... <br />probably,since you are like the rest of us, and don't have wads of cash to spend(or like the challenge), you should invest in manual for your motor. it will be worth it... i noticed there is a link up at top of our forums for manuals.

 

[troyo]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

among other things, I cannot find a manual for this Nissan motor; the Nissan Marine website has an owners manual, but not a repai manual like Clymers. Now things are starting to fall in place. The black wire that runs from soelenoids to the trim motor go through the cap, into a plastic piece that has these little magnet looking things with a sping behind it. As I understand it, the soelenoid sends the power down these wires and makes contact with these 'brushes'(that look like magnets and are marked with an * in my diagram. So I assume I check the power up to these first ?? If they arent getting power, then it has to be somewhere in the wire from the soelenoid to the brushes, right ?? go here for picture, couldn't get it to work http://ftp.ij.net/tbba/wiring.htm

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

try to come up with more info in your diagram. like what colors go where in the motor & to the solenoid you speak of.

 

[Bear]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

49$ and two weeks delivery<br />NOTE: These manuals are divided into sections by horsepower and so there will be only 1 section applicable to your motor. The first is for 2.5A thru 40C, the second is 40D thru 140.<br /><br /> http://www.maxrules.com/fixnissanmanuals.html <br /><br />There is also owners manual for free (pdf's) , but only newer models <br /><br />/Bear

 

[troyo]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

Hey Ebbtide, thanks for the help. I about killed myself on the diagram; it will be easier to try and describe; there are three wires, one black, one red and one green, coming off the soelenoids, and runs down to the Trim motor. At the engine, the black is attached to the engine block, the green is attached to a square soelenoid and the red attaches to a round soelenoid. There is a common red wire that comes off my main wiring harness that also attaches to each of these soelenoids. I can only see two wires that come out at the t/t motor end, and they attach through a variety of twists and turns, at the brushes (at least what I now think are the brushes)

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

Hi Troyo<br />There are 2 common configurations of reversable electric motors. A little more info will help me determine which one you have. Once I know which one you have, I'll guide you through the tests.<br />>the 2 small carbon blocks which rub up against the armature(moving member) are called brushes. They are held tight to the armature by the springs behind them. <br />>You have said that there are 3 wires going to the motor. Tell me exactly where each wire goes.(red, black, green)

 

[troyo]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

Hey Schematic, thanks for jumping in ! there are three wires, one black, one red and one green, coming off the soelenoids, and runs down to the Trim motor. At the engine, the black is attached to the engine block, the green is attached to a square soelenoid and the red attaches to a round soelenoid. There is a common red wire that comes off my main wiring harness that also attaches to each of these soelenoids. I can only see two wires that come out at the t/t motor end, and they attach through a variety of twists and turns, at the brushes (at least what I now think are the brushes)

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

>Does the large cylinder shaped housing contain permanent magnets? In other words, there are either 2 coils of wire or 2 magnets in this housing. Which is it?

 

[troyo]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

don't have them with me as I'm at work, but I know for certain there are some coils of copper wiring in the cylinder. I don't recall seeing any magnets in this part. the coils of wire are around and down the sides of this center cousing. I tried looking up any motor on the web as a reference , but wasn't able to find any pictures or expanded views of any t/t motor

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

If you remember the coils of wire......thats all I needed to know! I will help you later today.

 

[clanton]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

If you have time to drive to Crystal River, I will help you trouble shoot and repair the T/T motor, no charge. If it needs a part/s that a different problem. I have friend that has automotive electrical shop, that has parts for OMC/Merc, if it needs brushes may be able to use something that he has.

 

[Bear]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

"I tried looking up any motor on the web as a reference , but wasn't able to find any pictures or expanded views of any t/t motor"<br /><br />A picture:<br /> http://www.mercruiserparts.com/images/MERMAR/90647/41.png <br />Description:<br /> http://www.mercruiserparts.com/show_parts3.asp?inbr=675&bnbr=22&bdesc=POWER TRIM COMPONENTS - WITH CIRCUIT BREAKER AND FUSE<br /><br />/Bear

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

Hi Troyo<br /><br />is this what you have? Does one brush connect to the black wire, or to the housing? <br /><br />

 

[troyo]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

Schematic, that looks pretty close. Tonight I'll run by the storage shack and take it back off and get with you tomorrow. Thanks

 

[petryshyn]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

if you have it on, don't take it off until you check some voltages.....<br /><br />*using a voltmeter or testlight:<br /><br />>connect from green wire to ground (black wire) = 12v when trimming down <br />>connect from red wire to ground (black wire) = 12v when trimming up <br /><br />do these tests first to eliminate wiring.....

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

troyo, didn't mean to disappear, but i've been busy with tax $#^@@!, since i was missing a W-2 from recent co. takeover... and i'm still not done! schematic has the best info! from what you've told us, it appears you should be able to put 12v on red OR green (with black wired as orig-to gnd), and get some life outta your t/t motor. one for up/one for dwn...

 

[troyo]

Re: Is Schematic in the House ?

Ok, now let me make sure I understand; ground is to the engine block, green is to the round (I'm assuming) soelenoid, and the green is to the square soelenoid; I turn the key on, use the voltmeter, with one probe on the green and one on the black, then same for the red and black; is this as the wire is attached to the soelenoids and someone is hitting the trim switch ? Do I test the resistance on the wires with them unhooked ?? I have a little electrical knowledge, but not a lot, so forgive my naivety ? !?<br /><br />Thanks again, you're all great !