Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

[Fish929]

Guys, I have a 2000 Johnson 50 HP outboard and the tilt doesn't work. The hydraulic cylinder seems to be fine, so I'm assuming it's the motor. Could y'all take a look at these pics and let me know what you think? I would love to be able to drop it off at the dealership and get them to fix it, but with a new baby on the way in a couple of weeks, that's not an option.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sred...4289&authkey=Gv1sRgCNyqvvbzu9eIoAE&feat=email

Thanks!

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

I would start by checking all electrical connections, test the switch to ensure it is good and makign good connections, and that the hysrolics are full of fluid. Test the power lead at the switch and ensure that you are getting power to the switch and then getting power back to the motor. If there is power at the motor and the connections are good, then the motor may be bad...

 

[mikesea]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

2 options that may help,remove the 4 screws that hold the motor and bring all the parts to a starter/electrical motor rebuild shop,OR,you can go to top of the page on IBOATS ,under motor parts ,find your outboard and order a new motor,they do have them,I checked,New would cost you 209 plus shipping,the new motor will come with new o-ring,you neglected to say where the top with the wiring is,is it all together ??you may get off cheap at a rebuild shop,you do the removal and install

 

[Fish929]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

Can I hook the two wires coming off of the motor straight to the battery to see if the motor works? If it doesn't, I'll know the motor is shot, correct?

Thanks

 

[MississippiRiverRat66]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

I have had this problem on my 40. Check the wires behind the power/coil pack area. When this was mounted, most likely the wires were not covered in plastic and have now rubbed through via a few sharp spots on the engine block. A few shrink connectors and wire loom fixed my problem. Also, do you keep blowing the 20 amp fuse on the block (located on the starter side of the motor next to the starter relay/solenoid)? Give it a look...there's not much to the electrical on these engines.

 

[Fish929]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

I pulled it all apart this weekend the motor is shot; completely rusted. The inside of the reservoir was filthy so I cleaned it up. Here are some before and after pics of what it looked like after I removed the tilt motor http://picasaweb.google.com/willfisher929/JohnsonTilt# Apparently, the unit went out and the original owner ran it for some time in both salt and fresh water with the plug removed. He did disconnect the wires from the tilt motor to the engine.

With the tilt motor removed, as in the pics, I added some hydraulic fluid and manually lifted and lowered the motor a couple of times. When I raised the motor (extended the hydraulic arm), it sucked up the fluid and then when I lowered it the reservoir filled back up with hydraulic fluid and a little bit of that goo that was in there (you can see it in the pics). I had to reinsert the pin to reattach it to the boat as I can't extend and retract the hydraulic by hand. The hydraulic isn't stuck or anything and seems to be fine.

I just need to get a new motor, install it, fill the reservoir up with fluid and reconnect the wires, right? Two of the plugs are missing, which you should be able to see in the pics.

Can y'all think of anything I'm missing? I don't want to go buy a new tilt motor and plugs and then have it still not work.

There are some pics from the OMC Parts catalog showing everything in that Picassa album http://picasaweb.google.com/willfisher929/JohnsonTilt#
And below is the list of parts to which the numbers in the diagram correspond.

If anyone could take a look and let me, I would be forever grateful.

Thanks guys!

Ref # Part # Parts Description Qty SA Note Footnote
1 0438135
Add to pick list HYDRAULIC LIFT ASSY. 1 4
2 0160084
Add to pick list *BALL, Valve seat 1 2
3 0302290
Add to pick list *WASHER, Screw, motor to manifold 4 2
4 0320780
Add to pick list *SCREW, Tilt & trim motor 4 3
5 0911522
Add to pick list *O-RING, Oil pump to manifold 2 5 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
6 0321942
Add to pick list *SCREW, Oil pump to manifold, short 1 6
6 0335646
Add to pick list *SCREW, Oil pump to manifold, long 1 7
7 0333496
Add to pick list *SPRING, Housing to poppet 2 4
8 0436606
Add to pick list *VALVE HSG. ASSY., Manual release 1 4
9 0335143
Add to pick list **O-RING, Release valve 1 4 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
10 0339849
Add to pick list **O-RING, Release valve 1 4 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
11 0335132
Add to pick list *O-RING, Manifold to housing 2 4 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
12 0335133
Add to pick list *O-RING, Valve seat 2 4 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
13 0335134
Add to pick list *POPPET, Check valve 2 4
14 0335136
Add to pick list *SPOOL, Shuttle 1 5
15 0335137
Add to pick list *SEAT, Poppet valve 2 4
16 0335138
Add to pick list *PLUG, Retainer 2 4
17 0335140
Add to pick list *PLUG, Retainer 1 5
18 0335141
Add to pick list *DRIVE COUPLING 1 4
19 0335142
Add to pick list *WASHER, Piston to tilt rod 1 5
20 0435566
Add to pick list *CAP ASSY. 1 4
21 0335148
Add to pick list **SEAL, Tilt rod 1 3 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
22 0335149
Add to pick list **O-RING, End cap 1 4 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
23 0335154
Add to pick list **WIPER 1 3 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
24 0335155
Add to pick list **RING, Backup 1 4 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
25 0335156
Add to pick list *GUIDE, Ball 1 5
26 0306311
Add to pick list *LOCK WASHER, Pump to manifold 3 4
27 0335130
Add to pick list *PLUG, Manifold 2 5
28 0335159
Add to pick list *NUT, Tilt rod 1 5
29 0335171
Add to pick list *VALVE SEAT 1 5
30 0335657
Add to pick list *FILL PLUG 1 4
31 0335658
Add to pick list *O-RING, Fill plug 1 4 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
32 0914069
Add to pick list *RETAINING RING, Manual release 1 4
33 0335660
Add to pick list *O-RING, Valve seat 1 5 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
34 0335661
Add to pick list *SEAL, Manifold - 1 4 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
35 0335129
Add to pick list *O-RING, Plug 1 5 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
36 0335663
Add to pick list *FILTER, Oil pump 1 5
37 0389836
Add to pick list *OIL PUMP ASSY. 1 4
38 0433225
Add to pick list *ROD & EYE ASSY. 1 4
39 0437801
Add to pick list *MOTOR & CABLE ASSY. 1 4
40 0513667
Add to pick list **TERMINAL 2 3
41 0335152
Add to pick list *WASHER, Piston 1 4
42 0435899
Add to pick list *MANIFOLD ASSY. 1 5
43 0340174
Add to pick list *FILTER, Manual relief 1 6
44 0433814
Add to pick list *PISTON ASSY. 1 5
45 0335143
Add to pick list **O-RING, Piston 1 4 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
46 0335145
Add to pick list **RING, Quad 1 4 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
47 0335144
Add to pick list **RING, Backup 2 4 Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit . Contents of O-ring & Seal Kit .
48 0335153
Add to pick list *SPRING, Relief valve 1 4
49 0582499
Add to pick list *BONDING STRAP 1 6
50 0335131
Add to pick list *FILTER, Reservoir 1 5
51 0912298
Add to pick list *BALL, Relief valve 1 5
52 0332434
Add to pick list BUSHING, Manifold to rod 2 2
53 0512259
Add to pick list SLEEVE, Cable 1 5
54 0513665
Add to pick list SEAL, Connector 1 3
55 0332436
Add to pick list BUSHING, Tilt cylinder to bracket 2 2
56 0435567
Add to pick list O-RING & SEAL KIT 1 3
57 0513664
Add to pick list CONNECTOR, Tilt motor 1 4
58 0911729
Add to pick list *O-RING, Connector 1 4

 

[Fish929]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

Any ideas?

Thanks!

 

[bkwapisz]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

I think you're right about the chain of events that occurred with the previous owner. The motor went bad and quit, and he pulled the plugs to drain the fluid so he could raise and lower it manually.

Looks to me like you're on the right track with the teardown and investigation, but I'd be willing to bet that if he ran in the water with the plugs out there's water intrusion into the cylinder. Having said that I would be worried about the seals inside.

Ideally I think you should take it all apart, have the cylinder disassembled at a hydraulic shop and have it all rebuilt. Whether or not that would be cost effective is a question (versus replacement with another known working unit.)

I'd just be afraid to spend any money on parts when you really don't know if the cylinder will leak down or not. If it was run in saltwater like that I'd fear the corrosion.

Just my $0.02, and it may be worth less than that.

 

[okditch]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

Guys, I have a 2000 Johnson 50 HP outboard and the tilt doesn't work. The hydraulic cylinder seems to be fine, so I'm assuming it's the motor. Could y'all take a look at these pics and let me know what you think? I would love to be able to drop it off at the dealership and get them to fix it, but with a new baby on the way in a couple of weeks, that's not an option.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sred...4289&authkey=Gv1sRgCNyqvvbzu9eIoAE&feat=email

Thanks!

i rebuilt the one on my 90 hp new seal kit was30-50dollars made a spanner wrench by drilling holes in a adjustable cresent wrench and putting apropriate sized pins in the holes(i had some big nails that i cut off)

 

[Fish929]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

Guys, I really appreciate all the info. The problem I'm having is that I can't remove any of the bolts or even get the tilt unit disconnected from the boat. There's a pin holding it to the boat at the top of the hydraulic's arm that I can't get out. The only info I've found (on iboats) where someone successfully disconnected it seems way beyond my mechanical capabilities (cutting the thick pin about ten different times with a reciprocating saw, which I don't have).

So my question is, looking at the parts diagram, could I unscrew the unit and leave the hydraulic arm (part #38) hanging from the pin? As you can see in the diagram, it's threaded and it will turn (I've only turned it about 90 degrees just to make it easier to work on.

All of the bolts/screws, many of which have allen wrench heads, won't move regardless of how much penetrant I spray on them. Do I need to remove them?

Lastly, would it help if I posted a video of what it does when I manually raise and lower the engine?

Thanks guys! I've toyed with just saving up and buying a CMC unit but, like y'all probably do, I actually enjoy tinkering with this and would feel a sense of accomplishment if I could fix it.

 

[Fish929]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

OkDitch, regarding "i rebuilt the one on my 90 hp new seal kit was30-50dollars made a spanner wrench by drilling holes in a adjustable cresent wrench and putting apropriate sized pins in the holes(i had some big nails that i cut off)"

You used this spanner wrench to unscrew part #20? The cap from/through which the hydraulic arm extends? http://picasaweb.google.com/willfisher929/JohnsonTilt#5405123091180758354

 

[mikesea]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

I feel for ya bud.The reality is,your unit is shot.The pictures alone show all kinds of pitting around the sealing surfaces,but ,worse yet is all the rust ,corrosion inside of the parts you can SEE.Options are slim.Your engine is a rare breed in that it only has perhaps 3 interchangable parts engines.The 3,4.6 cyl engines have trim n tilt units that are interchangeable.Sorry,but its th fact.You can opt to buy a CMC unit,but,you will then need to remove all the installed factory TNT parts and find non TNT locking,anti kick up parts so when you go in reverse you enge dont lift out.I did see a unit on ebay,that is rare 4 that eng.however the guy knows he has something of value ,he wants $600.You the must consider what your cost WOULD have been IF you bought the replacement parts you would need to fix yours,and,there would be little guarentee you would get it working.Another option,find an eng like yours in good shape,you then have lots of good usable parts ,minus the TNT.Or,just get another used eng ,I would suggest a 3 cylinder,due to the availability of used and new parts.On the plus sideYou engine has a good lower unit.those lowers are also scarce ,thus,bring in a good dollar for used.You might be able to part your engine out to get something affordable to use.To remove that unit,you will need to take atleast one engine mounting bracket,usually the portside is taken off,If I were you ,Id think about hanging the engine from a hoist ad totally remove from the boat for ease.The mounting rods fo the tnt unit often get stuck,they should just slide thru with ease,I doubut it will be that easy.You have a project that is going to be labor some and a costly.I hate being the bearer of tough news ,but I must be honest with you.You might just keep an open eye for a good deal on a used unit,or bite the bullet and get in touch with the link I'll submit,maybe the guy will give you a break.He has a rare piece,but also needs to get the rare guy that needs one.BE SURE it will fit should you decide to go for it.Good luck

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Used...at_Parts_Accessories_Gear?hash=item53ddf908eb

 

[Fish929]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

Thanks for the info. That's much better than buying a couple hundred bucks worth of parts only to not be able to get it working. It's not the end of the world to not have tilt on it. We just use the boat to putter around the local lake, anyway.

Thanks to everyone who commented on this thread.

 

[Fish929]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

Last thing, I found a tilt motor on ebay for $140 including shipping. How about ordering one, installing it and seeing if it works? If it does, that's good and if it doesn't, I can just throw it back on ebay.

Also, does everyone else think its that bad? The pitting isn't too bad; there are no holes or anything. The previous owner spray painted it and so what looks like pitting is actually just the paint coming off. Also, I know the motor (shown with cover off in a couple pics) is shot, so I've already tossed it in the trash.


If you're talking about not being able to get a water tight seal between the reservoir and the new motor, I can use some kind of rubber seal (as shown in the last two pics). http://picasaweb.google.com/willfisher929/JohnsonTilt#

Thanks y'all

 

[okditch]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

OkDitch, regarding "i rebuilt the one on my 90 hp new seal kit was30-50dollars made a spanner wrench by drilling holes in a adjustable cresent wrench and putting apropriate sized pins in the holes(i had some big nails that i cut off)"

You used this spanner wrench to unscrew part #20? The cap from/through which the hydraulic arm extends? http://picasaweb.google.com/willfisher929/JohnsonTilt#5405123091180758354

yes on mine there are three hydraulic rams 2 small(outside)and 1 large(center)

 

[okditch]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

Guys, I really appreciate all the info. The problem I'm having is that I can't remove any of the bolts or even get the tilt unit disconnected from the boat. There's a pin holding it to the boat at the top of the hydraulic's arm that I can't get out. The only info I've found (on iboats) where someone successfully disconnected it seems way beyond my mechanical capabilities (cutting the thick pin about ten different times with a reciprocating saw, which I don't have).

So my question is, looking at the parts diagram, could I unscrew the unit and leave the hydraulic arm (part #38) hanging from the pin? As you can see in the diagram, it's threaded and it will turn (I've only turned it about 90 degrees just to make it easier to work on.

All of the bolts/screws, many of which have allen wrench heads, won't move regardless of how much penetrant I spray on them. Do I need to remove them?

Lastly, would it help if I posted a video of what it does when I manually raise and lower the engine?

Thanks guys! I've toyed with just saving up and buying a CMC unit but, like y'all probably do, I actually enjoy tinkering with this and would feel a sense of accomplishment if I could fix it.

you have to use a blow torch carefully around the pins and stubborn bolts as well as penetrating oil.On mine it took 3 days before i could get a tilt pin out of the hydraulic ram end.Dont mushroom any pins start with a brass drift(punch) and 4lb hammer.I worked my way up to a splitting maul by the end and it worked!

 

[Fish929]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

OK, cool. Thanks for the info. How does the unit look to you? Think I can bring it back to life?

 

[okditch]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

OK, cool. Thanks for the info. How does the unit look to you? Think I can bring it back to life?

sry just noticed this message.looks like you would have to take it apart and spray it out with carb cleaner see if cylinder(s)arent too pitted or scratched.If not ,go for it!
compresser air through the holes works good for cleaning out the gunk after carb cleaner.

 

[Fish929]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

Thanks, I'll try that and report back. A new tilt motor is on my Christmas wish list.

 

[Knightgang]

Re: Johnson 50 HP - Tilt - Please Help - New baby on the way so I can't buy a new one

Fish, what are you using for penetrating oil? I ask because I saw on here last week another post that discussed the effectiveness of different chemicals as penetrating oils. What was the best (according to the test) was Automatic Transmission Fluid mixed 50/50 with acetone. Try it and see if it makes a difference...

Also, do not rush this teardown. Let the penetrating oil work. It has to break down the corrosion to get through it and it will take a little time...

Heat was suggested as an aid. I agree. Try to find a small bottle of MAP gas with a handheld torch head like a small propane torch has. It burns hotter than propane, about as hot as acetylene without the oxygen mix like a torch has...

Pick up a brass drift set (if you do not have one) and keep the pentrating oil (homemade) on it, apply heat and eat this elephant 1 bite at a time. Once you get it apart, you can clean, hone and polish everything to get it back into shape...

If it were me, I would tear it down as you are doing and rebuild it...