Johnson 88 spl very low compression all cylinders

[Eric Fife]

Hey all

'89 tracker tournament v17 pro with an 88 johnson spl 2 cyc, 4 cyl engine

I am trying to figure out what is going on with my engine. I have owned this boat for about 6 months now. Since then it is becoming harder and harder to start. When i first got the boat, starting it was temperamental (started within 1 minute) and it didnt like to idle very well. So i mixed up a full bottle of seafoam into 1 gal of fuel/oil and ran it dry. The boat idles much better now but on rare occasions, it might die when advancing the throttle just a bit from idle to high idle (but only in the water, doing this in the driveway doesnt affect it like in the water). Also of note, all the plugs were black and wet upon pulling them after the engine warmed up. I am also inclined to believe there is some flooding going on due to the strong fuel smell while trying to start it. I am also noticing that the fuel line, where it plugs into the plug of the engine is loose and sprays a little while priming.

Today it took me about 15 minutes of grinding to start it. It would hit immediately but never catch and run. So i gave it a break for 5 minutes, hit the key and it fired right up. I do follow A start up procedure that i found here on these forums. Prime it, push in the key for 10 sec and start grinding with key still pressed in. Anyway.... i let it run for about 15 minutes and began the compression test. All cylinders were tween 75 and 80 psi. I came back in and made a few calls to marine shops over the low numbers and watched a few videos. OOPS! I forgot to advance the throttle to full. By this time it had cooled off for about 15 minutes or so. I did the test again and here are the results.

Facing rear of boat Left side first and then right. top to bottom.

85 86
80 89

Keep in mind that the tester is an amazon special 8milelake about $18. I am working on comparing the results with my neighbors tester (if he has one) maybe tomorrow. In the mean time, i sprayed the cylinders full of seafoam and put the plugs back in.

But how does the engine run? I always start the engine in the driveway with earmuffs before taking it to the launch because of the hard starting. Once i launch it, i hit the key tween 3 and 5 times and it fires up and idles good. It runs like a scalded dog and has plenty of power, no misses or anything. I can shut it off and fish for an hour or 2 and hit the key and it fires right back up first try. In other words.... once i get it started...it acts normally the rest of the day on the water.

I know i prolly need to also rebuild the carbs but i have been having a hard time finding the right kit. I get a part number and start comparing prices when i notice the photos (gaskets in the kit) are not the same from one kit to another. The engines serial/model tag is long gone. I made some calls and pretty much hear the same crap about our books dont go back that far ect... So i asked for help here on the forums and no one was either willing or could help. So ill save this as a last resort but i suspect if it is flooding, thats a carb issue.

Any insight?

thanks in advance!

 

[flyingscott]

Get a different tester. No need to open the throttle for a.compression test. Running in your driveway means nothing. The key has to be pushed in while starting the motor. Pushing the key in for 10 sec does nothing. Are you advancing the throttle hen starting? What is your exact starting procedure?

 

[oldboat1]

Enough with the Seafoam. You've got carbon running down the leg, and probably have cleaned out much of the exhaust by now. Advancing the throttle is not relevant to checking 2-cycle compression. Do it if you like, but won't affect readings. Make sure you crank the engine over until the needle stops, then record reading. I do spark and compression testing with all plugs removed, for the most part. You need to measure spark with an adjustable open air tester availably inexpensively at auto parts stores. The store might also let you borrow a compression tester so you can check again (screw in style, with a pressure release button). The warm up "lever" on your throttle box may not be a lever at all -- need to pull out the lever at the base -- gives you neutral warm up with advance to high idle.

 

[Eric Fife]

Get a different tester. No need to open the throttle for a.compression test. Running in your driveway means nothing. The key has to be pushed in while starting the motor. Pushing the key in for 10 sec does nothing. Are you advancing the throttle hen starting? What is your exact starting procedure?

ty. i do hold in the key while starting. i was told to push it in for 10 seconds and while depressed, begin cranking on second 11 yes i advance the throttle to high idle while starting. doesnt seem to help much if at all.

 

[Eric Fife]

Enough with the Seafoam. You've got carbon running down the leg, and probably have cleaned out much of the exhaust by now. Advancing the throttle is not relevant to checking 2-cycle compression. Do it if you like, but won't affect readings. Make sure you crank the engine over until the needle stops, then record reading. I do spark and compression testing with all plugs removed, for the most part. You need to measure spark with an adjustable open air tester availably inexpensively at auto parts stores. The store might also let you borrow a compression tester so you can check again (screw in style, with a pressure release button). The warm up "lever" on your throttle box may not be a lever at all -- need to pull out the lever at the base -- gives you neutral warm up with advance to high idle.

i was going to do more seafoam treatments because of the low compression and/or decarbing the engine. i read many posts where they say to do this 5 or 6 times to decarb and restore some lost compression. something about carbon buildup on the rings or some crap. i also read that filling the cylinders with deep creep will also help break up the carbon. of course im seeing that it did just run out of the exhaust lol. i think i was supposed to treat 1 cyl at a time while making sure that cyl was tdc?

btw. the compression tests showed between 71-75 psi WITHOUT the throttle at full and between 80-89 WITH the throttle at full. every video i have watched about outboards says to do it this way.... SHRUG???!!??

in case i was all over the place and confused ya, ill go over exactly how i did it. warmed the engine up, yanked all the plugs and inserted the business end of the tester, set throttle to full and got these numbers. however the first time i did the test i forget to put the throttle to full and got much lower readings.

can you explain why it isnt necessary to advance the throttle to full when pretty much any YT video says to do so? ya got me confused! lol

 

[Eric Fife]

please remember i do not know squat about 2 cycle outboards. this is a learning process for me. ALL of my wisdom comes from google, YT and on rare occasion HERE. if i am doing something wrong, please explain exactly why so i can learn from it. it also doesnt hurt to point me to some reading so i can better understand why.

ok so my original assumption of grabbing another tester was spot on i guess. checking spark is a tomorrow job after i hit up autozone.

i was long winded in hopes someone would pick up on a possible different issue that might be the culprit.

also if my startup procedure is not correct... please correct me

 

[flyingscott]

2 strk motors do not have valves in the cylinder only ports. So if the throttle is closed it can still pull air in from the exhaust side, So no reason to open the throttle. Seafoam is not mechanic in the can, you may need to get your hands dirty here. Are.you pumping the primer ball on the fuel line before starting? Do another spark and compression test with different tester.

 

[Eric Fife]

yes i prime the bulb until its firm. i push in the key for about 10 seconds and while its still pressed...i crank. i crack open the throttle a little and continue to manipulate the throttle cause sometimes it helps, but not usually. however i always keep it cracked open a lil while cranking.

while starting it, it will start to fire quickly but not take off. sometimes the engine is partially running while cranking but not running well enough for the starter to disengage. i will give it a rest and the engine is starting to get very warm to the touch. i crank again and again for about 15 minutes....all the while it acts like its wanting to start but the engine doesnt fully start. and then finally it starts!

tomorrow ill do another test with a different gauge and test spark. maybe a weak spark is the reason im smelling fuel very strong like invisible thick clouds? i guess ill find out tomorrow. ill report back.

 

[oldboat1]

Throttle does not affect amt of air in the cylinder on a 2-cyle, so doesn't affect compression test.

Hope you get it running.

 

[Eric Fife]

Screw it i couldnt wait lol. I just check the spark.

The bottom right cyl has an intermittent spark issue. I removed the plug and attached the plug wire and grounded it to an engine bolt i sanded bare. I saw it spark and then nothing at all. It was a sky blue spark as was all the other plugs tested, but it just stopped sparking. i put it all back together and started it and removed that plug wire...no change and the idle was rough. i revved the hell out of it and when it idled back down it was running great! i again yanked off that plug wire and it started running bad again. so it seems i have a spark issue.

the engine will sometimes run rough just like it demonstrated for me tonight. glad i found it!

im going to assume that i need to replace the coil its attached to... so im looking at 2 coils.

https://www.boatpartheadquarters.com/Johnson-Evinrude-Ignition-Coil-582508-p/sie-18-5179.htm $22
or
https://www.boats.net/product/johnson/0583737?ref=1402c025cdd6b0affc1a99f442bcd0bdf62f9084 $38

the part numbers are different but they LOOK the same.... this crap causes me much confusion lol. will either part i linked work? if not ill just replace the faulty one.... if so ill replace them all! i do not know which model engine i have (VJ88MSLCCC) or (J88MSLCCC) as the number are long gone from the engine...unless theres a hidden number im not aware of and i have looked it over.

 

[Eric Fife]

i do not know which model engine i have (VJ88MSLCCC) or (J88MSLCCC) as the number are long gone from the engine...unless theres a hidden number im not aware of and i have looked it over.

 

[oldboat1]

This is a simple spark tester to use:

The point is to measure ignition output. If the spark on your engine measures around 1/2 " and is sharp, your ignition is performing as it should. Remove all plugs and fully charge battery (or replace). The engine has to crank at around 300rpm to produce spark.

You mentioned running hot. "Hot" is anything over 160F (operating temp should be 130-140F). You need to test running in a tank or in the lake -- muffs tell you nothing. In any case, nothing over a fast idle unless in the lake. But if too hot, ignition parts can break down and cylinders may not fire consistently (i.e., may "drop" a cylinder -- If you pull off a boot and find no rpm change, that plug is probably not firing.)

Measure spark before you start replacing expensive parts.

[edit. And continuous cranking will burn up a starter, and perhaps ruin a battery.]

 

[F_R]

The "V" in the model number simply means it was made for a boat builder (but not Tracker because they have their own letter "T"). Probably no other difference than paint or decals.

About that primer confusion: Pushing the key in opens the primer solenoid. That allows fuel to flow from the fuel pump, directly into the intake manifold. If the starter isn't cranking, the fuel pump is not pumping, so no fuel is flowing into the intake manifold --- in other words, nothing is happening. However, if there happens to be pressure in the fuel line from a tank that has a pressure build up or you are mashing on the squeeze bulb, yes fuel will flow into the intake manifold even though it is not cranking. That can sometimes result in a flooded engine. And that is the reason for all the confusion. And finally, that is the reason they say not to hold the key in before cranking (to prevent flooding).

Don't believe everything you see on YouTube.

 

[jerryjerry05]

IF?? the plugs are black, change or clean them, preferably change.
I always thought the choke only gives a shot of fuel every time you push in the key??
Holding it just makes your fingers tired??

Comp: as long as all 4 cyl. are within 5# of each other it should be ok.
The low reading is usually the gauge.
Throttle open or closed, no difference.
Remove the plugs and let it set over night.
Then do the test with the plugs still out.
Let the motor turn until the gauge stops going up, sometimes as many as 10-12 turns before the readings done.

Stop wasting $$$ on seafoam.
It's like adding soap to your gas.
The more you dilute it the worse it burns.

If you need to decarb? get Mercury's Power Tune or OMC's Engine Tuner.
Clean the carbs?
Check the gas for water?
Fix the connector that sprays a little gas, if it leaks? it can also suck air and stop the flow.

Model# there's a quarter sized silver plug somewhere on the motor, it has the serial#

The spark tester that oldboat showed you is a good tool.

Verify comp and spark on all cyl.
It sounds like you've flooded/clogged the cyl.
You might need a shot of starting fluid along with new plugs to cut through the buildup???

 

[racerone]

Jerry 05 ------The primer solenoid is NOT a pump !-----It is a valve that opens when you push the key in.------If there is no fuel pressure nothing comes out of that valve.-----Therefor the motor must be cranking with fuel pump providing the pressure.

 

[Eric Fife]

This is a simple spark tester to use:

The point is to measure ignition output. If the spark on your engine measures around 1/2 " and is sharp, your ignition is performing as it should. Remove all plugs and fully charge battery (or replace). The engine has to crank at around 300rpm to produce spark.

You mentioned running hot. "Hot" is anything over 160F (operating temp should be 130-140F). You need to test running in a tank or in the lake -- muffs tell you nothing. In any case, nothing over a fast idle unless in the lake. But if too hot, ignition parts can break down and cylinders may not fire consistently (i.e., may "drop" a cylinder -- If you pull off a boot and find no rpm change, that plug is probably not firing.)

Measure spark before you start replacing expensive parts.

[edit. And continuous cranking will burn up a starter, and perhaps ruin a battery.]

i dont remember saying anything about overheating. not sure where this cropped up from.

 

[Eric Fife]

GUYS! lol im pretty sure i found the reason im smelling gas while cranking. Scroll up and you will see i FOUND an intermittent spark issue in a few posts upward. It has been showing this symptom for a while now and i have not noticed it and/or it is presenting as other issues. Im no mechanic but i can see where being down 1 cylinder would make it hard to start and smelling gas.

Last night while out there screwing with it i found 1 cylinder not firing. It was idling pretty rough but that wasnt out of the ordinary. Sometimes it idles strong and sometimes weak and rough. Last night i saw the engine do both! It wasnt sparking, so i put the plug back in and started it. It was still running rough, idle was surging by a couple hundred rpm but trying to climb. It was idling at about 850 rpm and struggling. I revved the engine up high and when it spooled back down it was purring like a kitten idling at about 1050 rpm. I let it cool for about 10 minutes and removed the plug and repeated the test. It again stopped sparking after a few sparks. So it seems that the spark is occasional on that cylinder.

 

[Eric Fife]

IF?? the plugs are black, change or clean them, preferably change.
I always thought the choke only gives a shot of fuel every time you push in the key??
Holding it just makes your fingers tired??

Comp: as long as all 4 cyl. are within 5# of each other it should be ok.
The low reading is usually the gauge.
Throttle open or closed, no difference.
Remove the plugs and let it set over night.
Then do the test with the plugs still out.
Let the motor turn until the gauge stops going up, sometimes as many as 10-12 turns before the readings done.

Stop wasting $$$ on seafoam.
It's like adding soap to your gas.
The more you dilute it the worse it burns.

If you need to decarb? get Mercury's Power Tune or OMC's Engine Tuner.
Clean the carbs?
Check the gas for water?
Fix the connector that sprays a little gas, if it leaks? it can also suck air and stop the flow.

Model# there's a quarter sized silver plug somewhere on the motor, it has the serial#

The spark tester that oldboat showed you is a good tool.

Verify comp and spark on all cyl.
It sounds like you've flooded/clogged the cyl.
You might need a shot of starting fluid along with new plugs to cut through the buildup???

i indeed found a spark issue last night many posts upward. so i already know im going to have to replace something electrical. now i need to troubleshoot the electrical side of it. today im planning on playing musical coils to see if that issue follows the coil. that is unless someone knows of something else i should be checking??? ALSO im going to repeat the compression test today with the neighbors tester, but its prolly not necessary at this point seeing as that i most likely have found or have a bead on the real issue

 

[oldboat1]

Well again, hope you get it running....

 

[Eric Fife]

Well again, hope you get it running....

its already running hehehe, i was just having issues getting it started if i had not started it for days. and now that i have the real issue locked down...parts are ordered and it will run perfect when its done! i did some extra trouble shooting and locked the issue down! i dont really feel like i managed to get much out of this thread though. i got hollered at over the seafoam and something about the boat overheating yadda yadda yadda. this has been my experience the last 2 times i used this forum for help. we live and we learn.