Kill switch or ignition?

jbuote

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Aug 17, 2016
Messages
1,001
Ok she is beeping now when touch leads together lol

YES!!!
We fixed something!!! :pound:

Now we're getting somewhere! haha..

So now run the tests on page 4, post #58 I think it was..
The different key positions lanyard in and out. All tests with probes in pinky side of boot and test wire.

What's the results of that now that beeping is working?
 

Dubvgogetter

Seaman
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
61
With pinky boot and lead wire:
no beeps on off or run with lanyard in or out

Between 2 M terminals:
lanyard out: off position - beep. Run position - no beep
lanyard in: off position - beep. Run position - no beep
 

jbuote

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Aug 17, 2016
Messages
1,001
With pinky boot and lead wire:
no beeps on off or run with lanyard in or out

Between 2 M terminals:
lanyard out: off position - beep. Run position - no beep
lanyard in: off position - beep. Run position - no beep

So you're getting the same results on the "M"'s no matter how the kill switch is.......

Just to verify..
The pinky boot goes through red plug, into remote and to the ignition switch at the black/yellow arrow right?
Then another black/yellow wire comes off that terminal and goes over to the kill switch at the red arrow right?

Then the other kill wire, all black arrow, connects to the same ground as the "M" terminal ground goes to right?
Your test wire is connected to the "M" ground terminal and was ADDED to the existing wire right? Didn't remove the ground wire?

SwitchWiringConfirmation.png

And that's all connected?
 

jbuote

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Messages
1,001
With pinky boot and lead wire:
no beeps on off or run with lanyard in or out
Well this isn't right then, but it seems backwards from what you're experiencing.
The idea, is that the black/yellow gets grounded to either prevent engine from starting OR to shut off engine if it was running.

So, when you have a beep, engine should not run/shut off.
With no beep, engine should run/start.

What you tested there, says the engine should run, but not shut off..

Between 2 M terminals:
lanyard out: off position - beep. Run position - no beep
lanyard in: off position - beep. Run position - no beep

This says the ignition switch is correct, but the kill switch isn't doing anything.
If the kill switch ground is on the same ground as the ignition "M" post ground, the kill switch should affect your readings between "M" posts...

If you put one lead on the "M" with black/yellow, and the other lead on the kill switch ground does it beep with lanyard out and not beep with lanyard in?
RE-verifying the kill switch is working?
 

jbuote

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Aug 17, 2016
Messages
1,001
All testing done with killswitch attached to engine and all testing done with black ground attached to M terminal on ignition switch.

With lanyard in and everything connected on ignition:
Off is 0.0
Run is numbers climbing
On is numbere climbing

With lanyard out and everything connected on ignition:
Off is 0.0
Run is 0.0
On is 0.0


Thanks!!!

I'm sorry..
I know this is getting frustrating for you..
We'll get it though..

Above was the result with the old ignition switch, and reading taken between "M" posts as I understood it.

Between 2 M terminals:
lanyard out: off position - beep. Run position - no beep
lanyard in: off position - beep. Run position - no beep
This is what you just tested and the results are different.
That's why I asked to re-verify the kill switch...

Unless Rustywrench or anybody else has another idea, here's the next steps I'd take.
Going to list a bunch so it's not back and forth from boat to computer.. LOL

1) Put one meter lead on the screw that the black wire from the kill switch connects to. Other lead on the ignition switch black/yellow terminal. Should get beep with lanyard out, no beep with lanyard in.

2) Verify ignition switch and kill switch are on same ground, by having one lead on the screw the black wire from kill switch connects to, then follow the black wire off the ignition "M" post (ground wire) to the screw it connects to. Put other lead there.
Should have a beep between those 2. IF NOT.. Stop here.. We'll need to figure out the 2 grounds and connect them somehow to continue.

3) Connect test wire to the black/yellow "M" on ignition switch. One lead in pinky boot, other lead on test wire.
Should beep no matter what.

4) Connect test wire to the screw the black from kill switch connects to. One lead in pinky boot, one on test wire.
With key OFF, Should beep no matter how the lanyard is...
With key in RUN - beep when lanyard pulled, no beep with lanyard in.
With key in START- beep when lanyard pulled, no beep with lanyard in.

5) Finally, if all that checks out, we're back to test wire on screw the ignition "M" ground wire leads to. One meter lead in pinky boot, other on test wire.
With lanyard in:
Key OFF - beep
Key RUN - no beep
Key START no beep

With lanyard out:
Key OFF - beep
Key RUN - beep
Key START - beep

If all that checks out, then the boat side should be fine I'd think.
 

Dubvgogetter

Seaman
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
61
Can i bypass the kill switch for testing? I unplugged killswitch ground and killswitch wires from ignition and still had to plug in boot by pinky to get engine to cut off.
 

jbuote

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Messages
1,001
Dubvgogetter

I have to run out for a birthday dinner, but I'm not giving up.
I think we're on the right track.

That said, I'd also like to ask the gurus, such as jakedaawg , racerone , oldboat1 , jimmbo and anyone else reading:
If you're so inclined, could any of you review here?

Even though it's my birthday, I will GLADLY eat a plate of crow if I've missed something simple, gone down the wrong path etc.. as long as it gets the OP up and running!
I'm not too proud to pass the baton if need be here... :D

To summarize what we've done thus far.
OP has issue where engine won't start.
If he disconnects the black/yellow at the in-line disconnect between the UFI and the red harness plug, the engine will start and run no problem.
Obviously won't shut off, so he re-connects that in-line connector and engine shuts off.

killwire.jpg

That lead me to think kill wire is grounding boat side of that connector when it shouldn't.
Early tests indicated a POSSIBLE issue in the key switch, so OP replaced it. No change..

Gave him lots of things to check with his meter to verify wiring etc..

Rustywrench chimed in suggesting taking the flywheel off to check the UFI...
Haven't heard back yet if he still thinks that's a good step here.

Again, I have ZERO issue passing the baton if needed. Another set of eyes is always a good thing!

This iBoats forum and it's members are the BEST around that I've found and in the end the goal is to get OP up and running reliably, properly, and as quickly as possible.

Doesn't matter if it's me that gets him there or one of you. As long as he gets there..

Thanks guys!! :D
 

jbuote

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
1,001
Can i bypass the kill switch for testing? I unplugged killswitch ground and killswitch wires from ignition and still had to plug in boot by pinky to get engine to cut off.

If you can separate the 2 black/yellow wires in that boot that goes on the ignition "M"Terminal, you should be able to.
You'll need the pinky boot connected, and then the black/yellow from engine connected to "M" terminal.
To truly bypass the kill switch, you'd have to disconnect the ground AND the black yellow from the "M", but leaving the other black/yellow ON the "M" from engnie..

Off to dinner! :D
 

Dubvgogetter

Seaman
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
61
I will do the tests u listed too. Just can't this evening. Should be able to mess with it tomorrow.
 

jakedaawg

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
4,275
If it were at my shop, and assuming all your testing with an ohm meter was both valid and done on properly isolated circuits, and assuming you did all reasonable tests (forgive me for not reading through 90 plus posts) I would:

hook up a stevens gc 96 with a 73a adapter to isolate the motor from the harness. I realize you dont have one. But that's what needs to be done. Beg borrow or steal another set of red plug controls maybe?

In all likelyhood your blk/yel is going to ground somewhere. You need to isolate it and ohm it, one lead on blk/yel other on ground. With blk/yel disconnected at both ends.

a quicker option may be to just run a new wire in place of the blk yellow as a test.

I have pretty much given up trying to sort out electrics over the net though.

was the flywheel pulled to check the ufi?
 

Dubvgogetter

Seaman
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
61
Thanks for the response guys. Everything pointed to boat side in jbuote's tests he had me do so no flywheel taken off. I will try more testing tomorrow and/or this weekend.
 

jakedaawg

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
4,275
Also check to make sure some one did not tie into the blk/yel or blk wire from the harness to ground some accessories, Fisher men are famous for this....
 

jbuote

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
1,001
was the flywheel pulled to check the ufi?

Not yet Jake. Was hoping to check boat side wiring before doing that. OP would have to get torque wrench, strap wrench or other, and not sure he has proper puller yet either.

Was going to suggest that after everything else checks out, UNLESS you, like Rusty said it might be, think it's already time to do that..

Thanks man!

Yes... Getting a factory manual as oldboat1 is a VERY good idea. Especially if you plan to do more work yourself

Dubvgogetter :
Happy birthday!!!

HAHA!! Thanks!!!! I appreciate it!! :D
 

jbuote

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
1,001
I know it's late, and you won't get this for a while yet.. lol

When you do get to testing (Friday or the weekend), I had a couple more thoughts.

To amend a little on the list of tests on page 6, post #89:

1) Put one meter lead on the screw that the black wire from the kill switch connects to. Other lead on the ignition switch black/yellow terminal.
With key OFF - Should get beep no matter of lanyard.
With key RUN - Should get beep with lanyard out, no beep with lanyard in.
With key START - Should get beep with lanyard out, no beep with lanyard in.

2) Verify ignition switch and kill switch are on same ground, by having one lead on the screw the black wire from kill switch connects to, then follow the black wire off the ignition "M" post (ground wire) to the screw it connects to. Put other lead there. In reality, both of those wires should attach to the same screw in the remote casing, but in case they don't.
Should have a beep between those 2. IF NOT.. Stop here.. We'll need to figure out the 2 grounds and connect them somehow to continue.

3) Same as page 6 #89

4) If, as I suspect, the kill switch ground screw is the same as the ignition ground screw on remote casing, skip this and go directly to 5.

5) Same as page 6 #89
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You mentioned another thing that has me thinking.
Can i bypass the kill switch for testing? I unplugged killswitch ground and killswitch wires from ignition and still had to plug in boot by pinky to get engine to cut off.

Does that mean you had kill switch ground disconnected, AND the black/yellow "boot" on the ignition switch disconnected, yet connecting the pinky boot back together still shut the engine off???

If so, that almost certainly points to a short to ground between the ignition black/yellow boot and the pinky connector.
(Love our terminology now huh? haha!)"

Jake had said:
In all likelyhood your blk/yel is going to ground somewhere. You need to isolate it and ohm it, one lead on blk/yel other on ground. With blk/yel disconnected at both ends.
What he's describing there, is pretty much what I meant as a test on page 2 post #'s 27 and 30.
We never did that test did we?
If not, I'd highly suggest we do that first. With the new audible, it means you should never hear a beep between black/yellow and ground when disconnected as laid out in posts #27 and 30.
You can use the ground screw in the remote casing and you can use the engine block as you ground point.
Upon more thinking, there is a black wire that should run from the remote, through the harness and attach to the engine block as a ground. So engine OR remote screw should work as your ground.

If you get ANY beeps during that test, we need to trace down the short to ground.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Jake also mentioned to look for anywhere along the harness where somebody may have spliced into the black/yellow thinking it was a ground.
I'm not sure that happened. You said, or at least I got the impression from page 1 post #5, that you've had this for a while and it WAS working fine for you. This is new behavior.
Unless you added equipment and spliced into a wire, that's probably not it.
However, it would be good to look anyway. If something was spliced in and now that goes to a ring terminal which goes to the negative battery post, then that's a ground on the black/yellow, but we wouldn't detect that in our tests since the battery isn't hooked up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

IF all the above check out fine, including the list of 1 -5 checking out as expected, then that leaves pulling the flywheel to check the UFI.
The only big reason I didn't suggest that right off, was the data pointing toward boat side, combined with the need to buy/borrow tools to pull the flywheel. I was thinking we should verify (what should have been) the easy stuff first. :facepalm:

You'll need the correct size socket to take the flywheel nut off, a strap wrench/flywheel turner or some other method of preventing engine from rotating when removing/installing flywheel nut, and a proper flywheel puller. Harmonic Balancer pullers have been known to work too (I used one on my 1971 Johnson,50hp). You just have to be sure you use the right bolts so you don't wreck the threads in the flywheel.
And finally, the torque wrench to be sure it's installed and torqued properly when you put it back on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I know that's a TON of information.
I hate to throw it all at you at once, but I'm thinking the more information you have when you do get to testing, you'll be able to DO more testing and not have to stop and wait for more answers on the computer.

Hopefully, this allows you to get more done with whatever time you have available.

Sorry for the long post, but I truly hope it helps out!! :nightmare::fear::distress:
 
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