Knowing when to say when on outdrive

[OhioWoodenFisherman]

I'm starting my 1st project boat, and as most of us budget is unknown and unrealistic but throwing a ton of time and money into the outdrive isn't something I'm ready to do, yet.......

A little down and dirty background. To the best of my knowledge the boat is a 1987 Sunbird 208 Cuddy Cabin with a 181CID Mercruiser 3.0, alpha one drive unit. Picked it up with clean title for less than I could sell the trailer and part it out, so far no worries even though I knew going it it was a complete hull up project. Had the motor running well enough that I'm comfortable with it being OK. No water thus far in oil etc. Worst case the motor is a rebuild but block and head gasket are sound. Pulled all the interior and started deck and stringer demo from the helm to the bow, no surprises there (deck and stringers are trashed) I'm completely comfortable with all of the wiring, fiberglass and woodwork (marine plywood deck and stringers etc.) Transom is also trashed. Having said that I know what I'm in for and am completely comfortable with everything fore of the gimbal housing. The outdrive makes me nervous simply because of the cost of the specialty tools. By the time I purchase all the tools to completely rework the outdrive I'm money ahead buying an aftermarket drive. I don't mind spending the money on something I'll use multiple times, but there's a lot of cash involved in tooling up to rebuild 1 outdrive and I'd rather spend that on the rest of the boat.

Pulled the alpha one gen 1 outdrive today in preparation of pulling the motor. Signs of water intrusion immediately, water dripping between the outdrive and gimbal housing seal. Universal joints have surface rust only on the flat round posts (sorry still learning nomenclature). Drained the oil off the lower unit and plenty of water and bad grease smell. Skeg is pretty banged up and anti ventilation plate has 2 good sized chunks taken out of it, holes from the hydrofoil plate, one of which is a bolt that basically pulled thru, and a new one from Mr stupid (me) trying to drill off the fin anode as the bolt holding it on was stripped.

I haven't ventured into the upper gear case yet but I'm not optimistic. Good news is I can manually turn the drive spline and manually engage the shifter and prop shaft easily turns in forward and reverse.

Basically what I'm asking for is reassurance that an aftermarket drive at plus or minus 2 grand Is going to last.

Yes I'm an idiot, but I'm comfortable with that
..

 

[nola mike]

I'm starting my 1st project boat, and as most of us budget is unknown and unrealistic but throwing a ton of time and money into the outdrive isn't something I'm ready to do, yet.......

A little down and dirty background. To the best of my knowledge the boat is a 1987 Sunbird 208 Cuddy Cabin with a 181CID Mercruiser 3.0, alpha one drive unit. Picked it up with clean title for less than I could sell the trailer and part it out, so far no worries even though I knew going it it was a complete hull up project. Had the motor running well enough that I'm comfortable with it being OK. No water thus far in oil etc. Worst case the motor is a rebuild but block and head gasket are sound. Pulled all the interior and started deck and stringer demo from the helm to the bow, no surprises there (deck and stringers are trashed) I'm completely comfortable with all of the wiring, fiberglass and woodwork (marine plywood deck and stringers etc.) Transom is also trashed. Having said that I know what I'm in for and am completely comfortable with everything fore of the gimbal housing. The outdrive makes me nervous simply because of the cost of the specialty tools. By the time I purchase all the tools to completely rework the outdrive I'm money ahead buying an aftermarket drive. I don't mind spending the money on something I'll use multiple times, but there's a lot of cash involved in tooling up to rebuild 1 outdrive and I'd rather spend that on the rest of the boat.

Pulled the alpha one gen 1 outdrive today in preparation of pulling the motor. Signs of water intrusion immediately, water dripping between the outdrive and gimbal housing seal. Universal joints have surface rust only on the flat round posts (sorry still learning nomenclature). Drained the oil off the lower unit and plenty of water and bad grease smell. Skeg is pretty banged up and anti ventilation plate has 2 good sized chunks taken out of it, holes from the hydrofoil plate, one of which is a bolt that basically pulled thru, and a new one from Mr stupid (me) trying to drill off the fin anode as the bolt holding it on was stripped.

I haven't ventured into the upper gear case yet but I'm not optimistic. Good news is I can manually turn the drive spline and manually engage the shifter and prop shaft easily turns in forward and reverse.

Basically what I'm asking for is reassurance that an aftermarket drive at plus or minus 2 grand Is going to last.

Yes I'm an idiot, but I'm comfortable with that
..

Nothing you said makes you need a new drive. If it turns freely, drain the oil and see what comes out. Pull the top cap and check that the gears look ok without rust. Pressure test the drive. If all good, change the impeller and oil and save your money for a nice captains chair.

 

[tank1949]

The day that you buy a boat with an OD is the first day of constant maintenance, wasted money and regrets. And, if is salt water used, more maintenance. Or, you can spend 30K on a new 300HP Yamie and have less headaches for a few years. Get yourself a good manual and lots of tools! Trust me.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Get the Merc Service Manual for the drive. And do what Mike said.

 

[Scott Danforth]

first, welcome aboard

second, post pics of what you have. doubt you need a new drive

third, get the factory service manual for your motor and drive, get the alignment tool, gimbal tool and bellows tools.

since the transom is shot, you have lots of time to work on the drive in between re-habbing the transom, stringers, deck, upholstery, etc.

 

[OhioWoodenFisherman]

Get yourself a good manual and lots of tools! Trust me.

Is there a complete list of all the specialty tools needed to completely rebuild a mercruiser 3.0 motor and alpha 1 gen 1 drive? I haven't spent much time researching honestly but it seems most of my search results are fragmented lists or specific to alpha gen 2. I'm kind of an over do it once guy and run it for another 30 years so having the tools isn't necessarily a bad thing, just balancing what is necessary to buy now and what can wait a couple seasons.

 

[Scott Danforth]

being a 1987, I would hold on thinking about rebuilding what you have

rebuilding a 3.0 costs more than rebuilding a V8

you may actually be able to get a complete 1992 and later 3.0/alpha 1 gen 2 for nearly free (buy a bayliner with rotten hull and said motor for dirt cheap. pull motor, scrap hull and sell trailer)

 

[tank1949]

being a 1987, I would hold on thinking about rebuilding what you have

rebuilding a 3.0 costs more than rebuilding a V8

you may actually be able to get a complete 1992 and later 3.0/alpha 1 gen 2 for nearly free (buy a bayliner with rotten hull and said motor for dirt cheap. pull motor, scrap hull and sell trailer)

Used to work before landfill costs went through the roof. We take hulls and sink them for snapper reefs but the Feds stopped us at that too.

 

[tank1949]

Is there a complete list of all the specialty tools needed to completely rebuild a mercruiser 3.0 motor and alpha 1 gen 1 drive? I haven't spent much time researching honestly but it seems most of my search results are fragmented lists or specific to alpha gen 2. I'm kind of an over do it once guy and run it for another 30 years so having the tools isn't necessarily a bad thing, just balancing what is necessary to buy now and what can wait a couple seasons.

Isn't a 3.0 the same motor GM called the "Iron duke?"

 

[nola mike]

Isn't a 3.0 the same motor GM called the "Iron duke?"

No

 

[Scott06]

Isn't a 3.0 the same motor GM called the "Iron duke?"

No iron duke was a pontiac 2.5l similar displacemen but completely different engine

 

[Scott Danforth]

Isn't a 3.0 the same motor GM called the "Iron duke?"

NO

the 2.5 was the 153 cubic inch chevrolet motor which is a 230 cubic inch inline 6 with two pistons removed. it was designed in 1960 for the 1962 model year and debuted in the Chevrolet Nova II

it is part of the inline 196/230/250/292 6 cylinder family which also powered many GM vehicles

the 3.0 liter is a bored and stroked variation of the 2.5 liter with a taller deck, same cylinder spacing, and in some instances, the same head. it is an industrial engine only (of which the marine engines are part of) coming from the GM mexico city engine plant. there is no automotive version of the 181 cubic inch motor. however there are natural gas and LP versions for fork lifts

the 3.0 was re-designed in 1990 for the 1991 model year to share the same 4" bore as the 5.7 to share tooling. the pistons are not the same. 1990 is also the last of the 153/2.5 liter as GM killed it off.

the 151 cubic inch "iron duke" is a pontiac only motor. it is half the 301 V8 having its debut in the mid 70's it lasted in various GM front drive and the camaro/firebird/s-10 vehicles until the mid 90's when the ecotec (2.0/2.1/2.2/2.4 motors from GM Europe) came on the scene

the 153/181 and the 151 share very little (some bearings and some bolts)

 

[OhioWoodenFisherman]

first, welcome aboard

second, post pics of what you have. doubt you need a new drive

third, get the factory service manual for your motor and drive, get the alignment tool, gimbal tool and bellows tools.

since the transom is shot, you have lots of time to work on the drive in between re-habbing the transom, stringers, deck, upholstery, etc.

first, welcome aboard

second, post pics of what you have. doubt you need a new drive

third, get the factory service manual for your motor and drive, get the alignment tool, gimbal tool and bellows tools.

since the transom is shot, you have lots of time to work on the drive in between re-habbing the transom, stringers, deck, upholstery, etc.

Here are some pics. The upper gear case appears to be fine, no signs of rust. The lower unit casing is obviously pretty beat up. That's the part that has me leaning towards a replacement of the lower unit. Skeg is probably fine but ugly. Anti ventilation plate with the big chunk out of the side, the clipped corner and the blown out hole from the hydrofoil mounting bolt plus the new hole from my lame attempt to remove the seized fin anode could all be welded but that would require removal of everything but not a deal breaker.

Thoughts on cost to weld the existing? 300ish? No idea just a guess.

I had the service manuals downloaded for a while, trying to talk my buddy out if his physical copies since he doesn't and hasn't used them in years, no boat.

Some surface rust on the universal joints but doesn't appear to have any pitting.

 

[Scott06]

Here are some pics. The upper gear case appears to be fine, no signs of rust. The lower unit casing is obviously pretty beat up. That's the part that has me leaning towards a replacement of the lower unit. Skeg is probably fine but ugly. Anti ventilation plate with the big chunk out of the side, the clipped corner and the blown out hole from the hydrofoil mounting bolt plus the new hole from my lame attempt to remove the seized fin anode could all be welded but that would require removal of everything but not a deal breaker.

Thoughts on cost to weld the existing? 300ish? No idea just a guess.

I had the service manuals downloaded for a while, trying to talk my buddy out if his physical copies since he doesn't and hasn't used them in years, no boat.

Some surface rust on the universal joints but doesn't appear to have any pitting.

Same thing happened to mine due to the sole fin or whale tail I had on it snapped at the bolt holes find a prop shop or welder and have them weld it inside of upper looks ok

 

[Rick Stephens]

I'd weld that up in an hour.

 

[76SeaRay]

Check for corrosion inside the housing before paying for welding it. I had 6 hydrofoil fin holes welded shut and ground smooth for $30. Later I found a couple of corrosion points inside the housing that looked like surface but ended up going all the way through when I cleaned them off. I bought a new Mercruiser housing and dumped the old one.