Laminating a Transom and resin?

[JAFO1]

I'm restoring a 1986 Skeeter bass boat. I have a thread going on it. I would like suggestions for laminating the transom wood together. Also, I read the FAQ at the top of the restoration section and planned to use epoxy to go everything, but I was talking to a composite sales rep and he suggested poly. And lastly, I was reading an oops! post and he suggested "ruff and scruff' to prep the old resin. I have a lot of loose, exposed glass fibers, some milky white patches, as well as some foam trapped in some of the glass. How far down do I have to grind?
So, in short:
1. Transom Laminating suggestions.
2. What resin to use?
3. How far do I grind on old glass and resin?

 

[oops!]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

man....i just spent 2 hrs typing a complete how to on building a transom and the dog pulled the computercord and i lost it all !

i think im just gonna write a book.

just use standard unwaxed polyester resin sometimes sold as decking resin or laminating resin.

as far as the rough and scuff....

all forgin material should be removed.

using a grinder with a rubber backing pad (sometimes called a flapper) and a 24 grit disc scuff the area.......not grind off....scuff.
you are just getting to a fresh layer to add new glass. just scuff it.

dont grind big grooves.....if you do we can fix that.
dont worry about white spots too much....just remove any white hairs of fiberglass. those will come off with one quick pass with the grinder.

if you do grind big gouges.....just make a peanut butter mixture and just before you install the transom take a putty knife and fill the gouges....when the peanut butter is still wet just glass over it and install the transom.

cheers
oops

by the way.......the hull extension thread has all this stuff and a detailed how to on make and install a transom

 

[JAFO1]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

Dang Dogs!
I would like a first edition copy!
Thanks for the heads up! I think I over analyze this stuff too much.
I've been through some or your 'Hull Extension', but there is so much stuff in there I get lost.
I'll take another peek into your thread, and then if I still have specific questions, I'll post back. Earlier, I looked for the 'peanut recipe', but I didn't see the exact mixture, but then again ADHD could have been acting up! Speaking of PB, is that the preferred stringer bedding glue? I was thinking about using PL.
Thanks for taking the time to answer some of my questions.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

Peanut Butter recipe is on page 76 of his thread

 

[oops!]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

pl works good.....however !

you must fully cure the pl before glassing over it. the full cure is about 72 hrs to a week....not the 24 it says on the tube....

so by using the glue....you cost your self huge time.

using peanut butter or kitty hair......just take a putty knife. run some down the channel the stringer goes into. drop the stringer onto the shims.....then take a butter knife and round the bottom edge (both sides) and glass the whole shabang.....done in minits

 

[oops!]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

Thanks for the heads up! I think I over analyze this stuff too much.

lol....over analyzing is the biggest problem home builders have.

we worry about 16th inch tollerances and how many layers of 1708 to wrap over the bilge drains

but a good friend of mine and an expert on glass here told me.....
" in the early days of boating, your boat was designed by two drunks at a bar on friday night....the plans were done on a cocktail napkin.....then the same two hungover guys built it on monday morning with a beer break at 10 am"
they used old pallet wood for stringers. and when they got it in the water and the thing listed (because the could not see straight) they added lead to one side to even it out!

boat building is simple.....really simple.

our mod here tashasdaddy does dozens of refits.....quick dirty and cheap. search some of his work here...it will really open your eyes to how simple this really is

 

[JAFO1]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

) and glass the whole shabang.....done in minits

Don't have an extra week to waste, so PB it is!
Also, didn't take long to figure out the 24 is too much for me to handle on my little grinder. I'll have to figure something else out.
Would it benefit me any to re-resin the whole inside of the hull? There is a lot of spider web glass, for lack of a better term, all over the hull? Corners and ribs are poorly glassed and resined. I don't want to do all this wood work only to have it fail again.
Outside of grinding, I am pretty much done on the hull for the weekend, My plywood and composite suppliers are closed for the weekend. Guess I could work on the deck cap.

 

[oops!]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

no.....it would not benifit you to re resin the hull.

resin by it self is very brittle...it will crack with out glass.

what you are actually talking about is scuffing the entire hull....then painting in 5 gallons of resin.

what i would suggest is to just scuff and clean the areas of concern....and add a small thin layer of csm over it... .75 oz......(don't worry about buying .75...just take the csm you have....peel a corner and pull it apart. .75 wets out like a dream and is really easy to work with.

btw....even a little 4 inch grinder will handle 24 grit discs....but if you want....go to a higher grit..you are just rough and scuffing.

by the way.....if you havent got your plywood yet. you will have to wait till it drys....
we are constantly drying wood....we buy some big one inch sheets of ext grade....and place them against the wall out side the shop and put a fan on em......yep....35 degree heat and a fan drys stuff pretty quick.....

cheers
oops

 

[JAFO1]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

Thanks for the direction Brother oops!
I now my little 4.5" grinder can handle the 24, it's the driver (me) that worries me. I just touched the hull and it took off!
I haven't got the ply yet, but it shouldn't take too long to dry in the Texas sun! I may just leave it in the garage and put the squirrel fan on it to keep it from warping.
Back to laminating the transom, use poly and glass, or something like Gorilla Glue?

 

[oops!]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

poly and glass.....

you can screw it togeather or squish it with weight....i like weight.....and lots of it.

ill type more....hang on

 

[JAFO1]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

poly and glass.....

you can screw it togeather or squish it with weight....i like weight.....and lots of it.

ill type more....hang on

Watch the dogs!

 

[oops!]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

how to build a transom.

be it i/o or ob.....they are all the same.

measure the rough size of the transom and cut 2 rectangles bigger than the transom from dry plywood.

i suggest starting with one inch ply and a 3/4 inch. but check and see about the thickness of the transom you currently have and duplicate that.

take the two rectangles and sand all 4 sides with 100 grit....dont spend a lot of time on this...you are just basically cleaning the surface of the wood from any unseen contaminants.

lay the 1 inch down on a flat table and cut one piece of 1.5 oz csm to fit it.

using a hot batch of poly resin...(cat at 2.5 mekp)

wet out one side of each piece of wood.

add the csm to the wet out one inch ply and glass it on. remove any air bubbles in the glass.

with out disturbing the fresh glass....add the other piece of wood so that the wet sides are touching.

you can screw them togeather but if you do....you must pre rip the csm (make a hole in it where the screws go thru) if you dont....the csm will wrap around the screw and bunch up between the layers....you will never know it but there will be gaps between the laminate.

i just squish the two peices of wood togeather with lots of weight.....a few hundred pounds at least.

let cure at least 2 hours.

2 be continued......lol

gotta run out and show someone the bayliner...they want to take it for a test drive.
ill finish a complete transom build and instllation for you including properly measuring the transom

 

[JAFO1]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

Thanks oops!
This will help!
My old transom is about 1.5". I have enough 23/32" ply to go to 2.25". My aluminum transom cap is 2.25" ID. A 2.25" transom will be tight on the splashwell, but I will eliminate the puttied gap between the transom and the splashwell. Will the extra thickness benefit or just be more weight?
You can see all the putty on the splashwell and transom. Fortunately for me, not all of the putty made contact with the splashewll, making removal a little less of a PITA.

 

[westexasrepublic]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

whats the benifit of putting a layer of glass between the two pieces of ply? Would using PL Adhesive achieve simliar results, just glue the two pieces to create one solid peice, right?

 

[diskord]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

how to build a transom.

be it i/o or ob.....they are all the same.

measure the rough size of the transom and cut 2 rectangles bigger than the transom from dry plywood.

i suggest starting with one inch ply and a 3/4 inch. but check and see about the thickness of the transom you currently have and duplicate that.

take the two rectangles and sand all 4 sides with 100 grit....dont spend a lot of time on this...you are just basically cleaning the surface of the wood from any unseen contaminants.

lay the 1 inch down on a flat table and cut one piece of 1.5 oz csm to fit it.

using a hot batch of poly resin...(cat at 2.5 mekp)

wet out one side of each piece of wood.

add the csm to the wet out one inch ply and glass it on. remove any air bubbles in the glass.

with out disturbing the fresh glass....add the other piece of wood so that the wet sides are touching.

you can screw them togeather but if you do....you must pre rip the csm (make a hole in it where the screws go thru) if you dont....the csm will wrap around the screw and bunch up between the layers....you will never know it but there will be gaps between the laminate.

i just squish the two peices of wood togeather with lots of weight.....a few hundred pounds at least.

let cure at least 2 hours.

2 be continued......lol

gotta run out and show someone the bayliner...they want to take it for a test drive.
ill finish a complete transom build and instllation for you including properly measuring the transom

Oops, I am looking at rebuilding my transom so I will be eagerly awaiting your replies for my own benefit as well, thank you so much for all the help you give on these forums.

I made a craft counter for my wife earlier this spring, she wanted it thick and beefy so I purchased 2 sheets of 3/4 ply, then using regular wood glue I pasted the glue all over 1 sheet, layed the other sheet on top of it, then parked the car on top of the whole mess. It wasn't perfect, but I couldn't think of a better way to "add weight" than parking the car on it.

Then, after the glue had dried, I just cut out the counter on all 4 sides from the new 1.5" plywood that I had created. I am assuming your instructions for building a transom (albeit not using wood glue and probably not as much weight as a car) is going to be similar? I will take my dry ply, sandwich them together, get them nice and tight, and then once I have that "new" 1.5 inch ply I use that piece to cut my new transom out of? I am guessing you use this method for the same reason I used my method when making the counter top, spreading the glue to the edges is hard, and hard to get a good solid "seal" on the outer edges, but by gluing and then cutting you are cutting off the "not quite as good" glued areas and have a nice solid core.

Am I on the right track as I sit here at work, not working, obsessing over rebuilding my transom?

 

[Greg Mrozinski]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

The method of attaching the two halves of the transom together is a matter of personal preference. Some folks here like to use epoxy and glass, some use resin and glass and some just use PL premium adhesive. I have glued material together with both resin and glass and the PL. Personally I liked the PL better. It is easier to work with since it comes in tubes. You can spread it with a notched trowel for total coverage and it cures through reaction with moisture in the air and wood. You also don't need excessive force to get a good bond. It does take longer for the PL to fully cure (at least 72 hours) but once it does there is NO way to get it apart.

For my transom I cut two pieces of 3/4" ply to the final shape of the transom. If you don't have the old piece as a template you will have to make one up yourself either by tracing or taking measurements. I spread the PL out fully on one side of the ply using a 1/4" notched trowel. Then I put the two halves together and pressed them together as much as possible. I carefully lined up the edges and then used exterior coated deck screws (1 1/4" long) and screwed to two halves together (every 8" or so) being careful not to have the points come through the other side. Wipe off the excess PL and stick it in the corner for a few days. Wha-la a transom. I also used the PL to glue the transom to the outer glass skin of the transom. Same thing?trowel the PL on, put transom in place, line it up. And then run screws through from the outside using pieces of wood as blocking to spread to load. Once everything is set remove the screws and blocking and the transom is ready for filleting and glassing in.

 

[JAFO1]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

whats the benifit of putting a layer of glass between the two pieces of ply? Would using PL Adhesive achieve simliar results, just glue the two pieces to create one solid peice, right?

WestTexas,
My guess, based of what I've read here, would be cure time for the PL, and I think the glass gives the resin something to bind to in addition to the wood itself. I'm still waiting to hear about the extra layer of ply. I forgot to take the thickness of the hull into account, so the 3 layers of 23/32 will be tight!

Diskord,
Pop the cap. Probably rivets or screws behind the rub rail. Unscrew or drill the rivets. I used an engine hoist to pull the motor and deck cap. In the FAQ at the top of this forum, there is a thread on how to build a motor stand. I used tow straps to pull the motor as did one of the posters in that thread. And yes, you are over obsessing. I did the same thing. There isn't much in that boat you can't fix, it's just glass and glue.

 

[westexasrepublic]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

thats basically how im gonna do mine without the screws, just use c-clamps if I can.

 

[JAFO1]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

thats basically how im gonna do mine without the screws, just use c-clamps if I can.

Resin and glass or PL?

I have all that resin and glass, so I'm gonna use it!

 

[diskord]

Re: Laminating a Transom and resin?

Pardon my ignorance, but what is PL premium adhesive? I am assuming it is some sort of glue brand?