Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

[spoilsofwar]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

There's no way to do that in NY. When I sold my boat and trailer, I went to DMV to turn in the trailer license plate and asked that very question... 'How do I dis-own the boat in the eyes of the state?' Answer was 'You can't. Hang onto your copy of the sales receipt'

Yep thats true. You will get something in the mail when the new owner re-registers the trailer, IIRC. I sold my old boat and trailer a few months ago and remember getting something like that, although I just filed it away without much notice.

Regardless, you give the new buyer (at least I do, and if you dont they need to be asking for) a bill of sale for boat and trailer when you exchange the property for payment, why would you not keep a copy for yourself? If I'm meeting someone somewhere without a copier/printer, I just make two copies of each BOS and we sign both; I keep one and buyer keeps one.

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Ah, the internet. Best source of bad legal advice. Next week: how to do your own knee surgery.

No one is liable, criminally or civilly, for damage his boat did. One is only liable, civilly or criminally, for damage he did--whether with his fists, hammer or boat. Do you think you are liable if someone bought, or stole, your flower pot and threw it through a neighbor's window?

Now, his boat being run up on someone else's dock may be evidence that he drove it up on someone's dock, and then you get into the burden of proof, the burden of persuasion, the shifting burdens, etc. and perhaps presumptions. But what you all are saying is called "strict liability" and it doesn't apply.

The closest you may come to this situation is if your boat breaks its moorings and drifts into someone's stuff, but then your liability is based on your act: your failure to secure it.

To the OP: your friend (unless it's you) is now making two mistakes to compound those from the sale: he's asking someone else to get him some legal advice, and he's taking it from an internet forum.

Nope, it's not me.. Just looking for some info for a buddy. He may have to get a lawyer but I dunno. He's certanally not going anywhere and saying "the fellas from Iboats said so.." But I should know more this weekend.

As for letting someone know, I'm not sure about boats. I did this once with a small pickup truck. Sold it and went to the DMV to tell them I sold the truck and they told me there is nothing to do or record. It's updated when they re register the vehicle. (which I believe in WI it's 48 hours after purchase). In that case I was contacted by a tow company saying my truck been impounded. This case was simple. All I had to do it tell them I sold my truck and took the plates. Done deal. But here there's damage to a dock and pontoon. I don't know how much, uless the other party was gong like a bat out of hell I can't see very much damage happening.. But you never know.

I feel for him. I've sold many things without a bill of sale. With nothing more then cash and a handshake. Perhaps our old school way of thinking isn't good anymore. (terrible to think).

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Possesion is 9/10th's of the law...

AND/OR

It's not what you know...it's what you can prove.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall when the REGISTERED/TITLED...LEGAL owner is being grilled by the judge as to why HIS("he" still owns it in the eyes of the court without supporting evidence to the contrary) boat ran into a dock without the dock owners permission.

Hire counsel...ESPECIALLY if there was significant damage, and "he" hasn't the means to settle privately.

The Sheriff/property owners were correct.

May not be the 2nd coming of Scopes...however someone's got a few questions to answer.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

The Sheriff/property owners were correct.

No, they are both wrong. And so are you.

You are right somewhat, however, as to proof. The boat being titled in the name of the friend is a presumption of ownership, but a rebuttable presumption. It is therefore evidence that he might have been driving. Not proof.
But this is the point everyone keeps missing: owning a boat does not make you liable for damage (for something like this). Only the driver is liable for damage. The proof issue is: who was driving?

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

No, they are both wrong. And so are you.

And that's why they pay judges...

Hire Matlock, Daniel Caffey, Jackie Chiles...whomever...Don't listen to "The Caddy!"

And now back to your regularly scheduled programming!

 

[ericp501]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

When I was 18 I was driving to school and a schoolbus pulled out infront of me on wet roads. I think the driver forgot he was driving a bus and had an extra 40' behind him. I had to jump a curb to avoid hitting the rear of the bus. It was at an intersection so I also had to dodge 2 cars which I somehow did. My car was totalled because the curb just killed everything on the underside of the car. I had no proof of a schoolbus pulling out in front of me since he just drove away. It was called a "single car accident" and I was at fault and my insurance company dropped me because of it. I know this isn't the same thing.. but when it comes to that type of stuff you seem to be guilty unless you can prove yourself innocent.

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

I've got to agree with others, this is the very reason a seller makes certain he registers the sale. Think about it form the other side of it. I've got a crappy old boat (car, any vehicle) and get into an accident. Whats to stop me from saying I sold it months ago? Nothing...

Drunks plead "my car was sold/stolen" quite frequently...it usually doesn't work either.

The "It wasn't me" defense is only as good as the alibi.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Ah, the internet. Best source of bad legal advice. Next week: how to do your own knee surgery.

No one is liable, criminally or civilly, for damage his boat did. One is only liable, civilly or criminally, for damage he did--whether with his fists, hammer or boat. Do you think you are liable if someone bought, or stole, your flower pot and threw it through a neighbor's window?

Now, his boat being run up on someone else's dock may be evidence that he drove it up on someone's dock, and then you get into the burden of proof, the burden of persuasion, the shifting burdens, etc. and perhaps presumptions. But what you all are saying is called "strict liability" and it doesn't apply.

The closest you may come to this situation is if your boat breaks its moorings and drifts into someone's stuff, but then your liability is based on your act: your failure to secure it.

To the OP: your friend (unless it's you) is now making two mistakes to compound those from the sale: he's asking someone else to get him some legal advice, and he's taking it from an internet forum.

The only one that appears to be giving legal advice so far, is you. kind of , umm, well, you know.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Nope, it's not me.. Just looking for some info for a buddy. He may have to get a lawyer but I dunno. He's certanally not going anywhere and saying "the fellas from Iboats said so.." But I should know more this weekend.

As for letting someone know, I'm not sure about boats. I did this once with a small pickup truck. Sold it and went to the DMV to tell them I sold the truck and they told me there is nothing to do or record. It's updated when they re register the vehicle. (which I believe in WI it's 48 hours after purchase). In that case I was contacted by a tow company saying my truck been impounded. This case was simple. All I had to do it tell them I sold my truck and took the plates. Done deal. But here there's damage to a dock and pontoon. I don't know how much, uless the other party was gong like a bat out of hell I can't see very much damage happening.. But you never know.

I feel for him. I've sold many things without a bill of sale. With nothing more then cash and a handshake. Perhaps our old school way of thinking isn't good anymore. (terrible to think).

Kind of.

DMV website says "if it is to be driven, it must be registered within 2 business days of purchase."

The buyer can buy the car, and park it, unregistered, indefinitely.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

I've got to agree with others, this is the very reason a seller makes certain he registers the sale. Think about it form the other side of it. I've got a crappy old boat (car, any vehicle) and get into an accident. Whats to stop me from saying I sold it months ago? Nothing...

Sure, if the state has a mechanism in place for this. Which Wisconsin doesn't.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Simply put, your friend is at fault. Not only will he probably be liable for the damages for the accident, but i am sure if he didn't get a bill of sale, he took cash without documenting it for collection from the irs. I don't feel bad for him since he didn't do what he was suppose to do to cover his own arse. Sorry, not trying to be mean, but in todays world, everything should be recorded/documented.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Simply put, your friend is at fault. Not only will he probably be liable for the damages for the accident, but i am sure if he didn't get a bill of sale, he took cash without documenting it for collection from the irs. I don't feel bad for him since he didn't do what he was suppose to do to cover his own arse. Sorry, not trying to be mean, but in todays world, everything should be recorded/documented.

say what?

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

The only one that appears to be giving legal advice so far, is you. kind of , umm, well, you know.

I try hard not to give legal advice around here, but rather I try to point out the errors in the advice given here. Who knows, I may be qualified to give such advice in my home state.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Simply put, your friend is at fault. Not only will he probably be liable for the damages for the accident, but i am sure if he didn't get a bill of sale, he took cash without documenting it for collection from the irs ....

ding ding ding we have a winner for the worst legal and worst tax advice in the same post. As one of my professors was fond of saying, "you could think that, but you would be wrong." (Doug Rendleman)

 

[lakelover]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

Ah, the internet. Best source of bad legal advice. Next week: how to do your own knee surgery......
Do you think you are liable if someone bought, or stole, your flower pot and threw it through a neighbor's window?

Good point, of course here it is all speculation, I don't think we have any lawyers on here do we? Maybe we do. And if we did, would they give free advice? Nahh. But the flower pot analogy doesn't quite seem to fly...my state does not regulate, title and register flower pots. (to the best of my knowledge, which no doubt, is limited regarding law! Do any?) I think we're all just offering our opinions as we think we understand the general principles.

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

would they give free advice? Nahh.

When the 30-year-old lawyer died he said to St. Peter, "How can you do this to me? - a heart attack at my age? I'm only 30." Replied St. Peter: "When we looked at your total hours billed we figured you were 95."
- Anonymous

 

[BRICH1260]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

I see two sides of it from a common sense angle, as I`m not an Attorney. I would think that the property damage victim statements could be questioned as to a positive ID; ie, can they positively say that the ex-owners boat was involved. How good a view did they really have? Any independent witnesses?

But, no doubt the seller should have gotten a signed bill of sale or something similar and based on state laws, and becasue he didn`t may be found liable.

 

[security6]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

The only one that appears to be giving legal advice so far, is you. kind of , umm, well, you know.

I don't quite know what you mean.

I will say that I agree with home cookin completely. Of all the posters, he has been the only one to explain how he came to his conclusion (my high school math teacher always told us to "show your work", and home cookin did).

To the OP:
Your buddy ought to be thinking about what evidence he has to show he sold the boat. When he owned the boat, where was it stored? A neighbor testifying that the boat was always stored in the driveway until 2 years ago would be pretty good evidence that your friend sold the boat 2 years ago.

 

[chriscraft254]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

say what?

Well, after two days of working 11 to 13 hour days, and typing on three different forums at night after about 2 hrs of sleep, I do make a mistake every now and again. wasn't even intended for this forum,lmao. Guess I need to be cut off from commenting,lol Now Homecooking is just an arse!!

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Liable for crashing into dock? Sold boat.

To the OP: Your buddy ought to be thinking about what evidence he has to show he sold the boat. When he owned the boat, where was it stored? A neighbor testifying that the boat was always stored in the driveway until 2 years ago would be pretty good evidence that your friend sold the boat 2 years ago.

And the first one they always ask on all the Cop shows on TV, "Where were you at the time in question?"