Lower unit question

[stourm]

Alright guys, I have a question about a lower unit I just bought to replace mine because it was heavily corroded. I drove to Louisville, KY for this lower unit yesterday and picked it up for $150 and the guy pretty much gave me his entire motor. I have two cardboard boxes of parts, the midsection, and the lower unit. I checked the oil in his lower and it seems to be just fine and the shaft appears to engage the prop properly but here is my question. My motor is a 1977, 140HP Evinrude and the lower unit I bought is from, I think, a 140 hp Evinrude Sport. I don't know the year. When looking at the lower, it appeared everything looked identical, but there was a small feature I had overlooked because of the "whale's tail" that is on my motor. There is this open square block area through the back section of the lower unit that I bought that my lower doesn't have. Otherwise they look the exact same. I don't want to pull my lower off if this one won't work so if you guys can tell me if it will work or not I would be greatly appreciative. Pictures of both Lowers below. Oh, and pay no mind to the blob of gray around the prop area of my lower unit. That is some quicksteel that I used to help reinforce that area of the lower until I could replace it.

 

[Big Bubba]

Re: Lower unit question

Stourm,
Glad you finally got your lower leg unit and additional parts for $150.00. I think you got a heck of a GREAT!!!! deal on it especially if it is in great shape and nothing wrong with it. Your question about the square opening on the back above the prop is a zinc anode that is there to direct corrosion away from your motor and lower leg unit and you said yours is not there that is probably why yours corroded so badly in the first place because it is missing on your lower elg unit. I say go ahead and swap them out since you have it now. Basically when you get your lower leg unit off make sure the top of the drives shaft and the top of the shift shaft look the same because the top of the drive shaft has splines and might be different but you want know until it is off and make sure the shift shaft is the same to if not you could remove it off the old lower leg unit and put it on the newer lower leg unit. But before you swap those shift shafts out, if only you have too, make sure you make a measurement of its length or it will not shift right if it is not exactly set right. But "GIT ER DONE" and let us know how it turns out. Bob

 

[stourm]

Re: Lower unit question

Thanks Big Bubba for responding. I am grateful that you are still here and helping out with my inexperience. The part that is confusing me is that the new lower unit that I bought (the one that is all painted gray primer in the top picture) has a big empty hole right above the prop behind that set of holes. There is a hole inside of the square opening up into the open area of the lower unit. On my lower unit, it is all solid and that square area doesn't exist above the prop behind those holes. It's just solid. Are you saying that some kind of anodes fit inside those square openings that you can see in the top picture? How do you attach them inside that spot?

 

[Big Bubba]

Re: Lower unit question

I believe you take the lower trim tab off and there should be away to attach the new anode to it by bolting it in. You will probably have to go to the Local Johny rude dealer in town to by that anode but I would not worry about that, right now, until you are certain that you can get that new lower leg unit on and it is fitting correctly without any issues.The anode would be the last thing I would worry about at this time and continue on getting the lowers swapped out. Take care, Bob

 

[stourm]

Re: Lower unit question

I am goinig to try and pull my lower unit off this week and make sure this new one will fit, and then I am going to attempt to install it if it does. I have two questions about the installation part though. First question is what do I need to put between the lower unit and midsection for a gasket? Do I need to purchasee an actual gasket or can I use some type of silicon liquid gasket stuff? If I can use liquid gasket then what do you gusy recommend? The other question that I have is about that anode that fits in the lower unit. Is there a place you guys recommend for buying anodes online? There aren't just a lot of places close buy that sell marine parts so I am not entirely sure about my ability of finding one. If they are fairly generic then maybe it won't be too difficult. I can go ahead and install the lower unit without the anodes and just worry about those and that trim tab later correct?

By the way, I took the boat out last week and ran it and it didn't run very well. At wide open throttle it was really not moving very quickly at all and so I have to figure out whats going on. I had my motor tilted all the way down as far as it would go so I may have had it tilted too far. May be old gas. I will take it back out and try a few things and get back with you guys and hope you can help me figure out why its running the way that it is. I bought a compression tester at Advance Auto and ran a compression test on all four cylinders and here is what I ended up with. I don't know which cylinder is which as far as numerical order but here is the layout that I ended up with. Top Left - 120, Bottom Left - 122, Top Right - 118, and Bottom Right - 120. I did this test after running the engine about 5 minutes and also had the choke lever all the way up. I think it's the choke lever, it's a white lever that says lift to warm up start (or something like that) right to the left of the throttle lever. I left the throttle in neutral though because I wasn't sure if my engine would try to turn over with it in gear but figured that it wouldn't.

 

[stourm]

Re: Lower unit question

Can anyone help me on the questions about installing this replacement lower unit that I listed in the previous post? Also, Big Bubba if you happen across this thread again I just wantd to let you know that the parts that I ended up buying were one of the Ebay listings that you directed me to so I wanted to say thank you for helping me find the parts and listing them in my first thread. The auction actually ended before I bid on them, but it had no bidders and I contacted the one who listed them and just bought them outright instead of waiting for a re-listing. Thanks again Big Bubba.

 

[BigB9000]

Re: Lower unit question

do I need to put between the lower unit and midsection for a gasket?

No gasket. metal on metal (I'm 88% sure on this)

The other question that I have is about that anode that fits in the lower unit. Is there a place you guys recommend for buying anodes online?

shop.evinrude.com

Use the year/hp of your new lower unit when getting parts.

If they are fairly generic then maybe it won't be too difficult. I can go ahead and install the lower unit without the anodes ...

Yeah, install them later. Dont try and sand/clean the old ones down, leave it alone

By the way, I took the boat out last week and ran it and it didn't run very well. At wide open throttle it was really not moving very quickly at all and so I have to figure out whats going on.

Prop? weak fuel....? It could be anything, make a new post when the time comes.

I had my motor tilted all the way down as far as it would go so I may have had it tilted too far.

It'll make a difference, but not a big one.

Top Left - 120, Bottom Left - 122, Top Right - 118, and Bottom Right - 120.

looks good enough.

it's a white lever that says lift to warm up start (or something like that) right to the left of the throttle lever. I left the throttle in neutral though because I wasn't sure if my engine would try to turn over with it in gear but figured that it wouldn't.

Its a warm up lever, just give the engine gas when in neutral. You shouldn't be able to put it in gear with that up. And you shouldnt be able to move it while the engine is in gear.

 

[stourm]

Re: Lower unit question

Thanks for the response BigB9000, I never would have thought that the lower would be metal on metal. I just assumed that it would need to be watertight, but then again the lower unit itself has holes in it so I guess it makes sense that it doesn't need a gasket.

 

[BigB9000]

Re: Lower unit question

Well, one on my hobbies Is to buy crappy old outboard on craigslist, take them apart and ebay the parts.

This makes me a little money to put towards my boats. And teaches my way around an outboard.

one of the engines I picked up ($25) Somebody jammed RTV down there. NONE of the others I have done have had it. So I say 88% sure because I have never had an engine that big so It may be different.

But if you think about it, on cars, on the trans to engine, there is no gasket.

And on shop.evinrude.com there is no gasket listed.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Lower unit question

The first thing that I would do is to try to determine the year of the parts motor that you bought. Look on the transom bracket for the data plate and post the information here, if you find it. If not, try posting the serial number, which will be on a welsh plug in the top of the powerhead.

Also, how much of the parts motor do you have? What parts are missing? It may make more sense for you to reassemble that motor. If the powerhead is shot (I think I remember you saying that in your last thread on this situation), you may be able to install yours on the ERude Sport.

My opinion of this situation remains that you are asking for trouble by trying to continue using the midsection on your original motor. The level of corrosion on the gearbox is severe and there is nothing that would suggest that the midsection is in any better shape. You may also have a great deal of difficulty removing the bolts that hold the gearbox to the midsection, because they are most likely as corroded as the rest of the motor.

 

[BigB9000]

Re: Lower unit question

You may also have a great deal of difficulty removing the bolts that hold the gearbox to the midsection

Ohhhhhhhh yeah. I forgot all about that.

Even a not too corroded lower is a pain to get bolts out.

remove your lower and see what happens. You might be doing a power head swap.

 

[stourm]

Re: Lower unit question

Thanks Jay and BigB, I am planning on getting some really good creeping oil from Advance Auto and spraying those bolts down several times with good long soak sessions in between. Next I thought I would use my father's air ratchet to try and break them loose. I thought instead of the solid constant force and torque of a standard ratchet and cheater bar (when needed,) I would try the repeated 'wiggle' motion of an air ratchet to possibly remove the bolts rather than snapping the bolt heads off in the midsection. I figured once the lower is off I can take a good look inside the mid and see what kind of shape its in. I'd love to just stick my power head on his midsection if it were that easy, but I don't know the first thing about it nor do I have the tools to hoist that engine off and put another one on. Replacing the lower I am sure I can do. I am positive that I don't have the knowledge or ability to replace that power head on my own at this point.

Jay, it looks like the guy gave me everything but the starter from his engine. I got the lower, midsection still attached to the tilt/trim and all wiring. I even have his entire power head, although it is a little worse for wear and completely dismantled. The thing sat for a couple years while he looked for a replacement power head for a decent price before he decided to sell it, and it shows. All of the parts of the power head that weren't aluminum, such as inside the head, are rusting a bit. What happened was someone put in some spark plugs that were too long and it really done a number on the pistons. I will take some pictures of everything that I ended up with and post them here tomorrow.

 

[stourm]

Re: Lower unit question

You may also have a great deal of difficulty removing the bolts that hold the gearbox to the midsection, because they are most likely as corroded as the rest of the motor.

Funny thing about what you said regarding the bolts Jay is that every single one of them shines like a brass nickel all over the engine. I realize that the bolts are probably steel, but I figured that they would at least have some corrosion but they really don't appear to. Now, that's not to say that they aren't so seized up inside that aluminum midsection that they refuse to break loose. Just saying the bolts themselves appear to be in great shape.

 

[BigB9000]

Re: Lower unit question

stainless maybe?

Anyway, and air ratchet wont help.

1) they cant get into the tight areas
2) they suck for torque

An impact wrench, no problem- but your not getting an impact in there.

Your going to need a 14mm (?) 6-point Box end wrench for this.

DO NOT use a 12 point wrench/socket commonly found in standard-duty mechanics tool set. Go to sears and buy yourself a long 6-point 14mm (?) box end wrench.

That and a mallet and I have always gotten lower unit bolts off. You'r not getting a ratchet in there.

And for the trim tab, and bolt under tab, 6 point socket, 1/2 drive, and a long 1/2 inch socket wrench will work fine. ...also here is where the mallet comes back into play.

EDIT:

my method of hitting the wrench with a mallet method may not be kosher, but it sure works.

Also, use the closed end of the wrench, not the open end.

And if you have a 12-point, it'll come in handy for after the bolt is loose, but not finger tight, to remove the bolt quicker.

And if you have to go buy the 6 point, get yourself a 'boat tools' box. and put all the tools you buy for the outboard in there. That what I did, its working good so far...

 

[BigB9000]

Re: Lower unit question

Thanks Jay and BigB, I am planning on getting some really good creeping oil from Advance Auto and spraying those bolts down several times with good long soak sessions in between. .

I dont know if that will help that much.

if you think about it, the bolts are in upside down, you cant get to the threads as they are enclosed. and by spraying the bolt heads, all that will happen is it'll drip down and off the bolt, thus, not getting into the threads. now, if you turned the outboard upside down, now your talking.

It wont hurt anything though, so do it anyway.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Lower unit question

The reason why the bolts look shiny is because they are stainless steel. I also agree that penetrating oil probably won't help much. About the only thing that is likely to work, is to use heat to break them loose. Bear in mind, also, that every other bolt in that midsection is going to be just as bad. That means that if you ever need to replace a rubber isolation mount, change a swivel bracket, etc., you are going to fight with corroded bolts that will want to break.

Do yourself a favor and at least explore the possibility of reassembling the motor that you bought, with your powerhead installed. The job really isn't as difficult as you think it is. If you had to rebuild a powerhead, I might not be offering this advice, but you don't. If your existing powerhead will "graft" onto the parts motor, all you have to do is to put some relatively uncomplicated parts together.

Also, if you decide to do this, I'll send you a photo of a home made engine stand that I built out of two by fours and 4 casters, and which cost me about 30 bucks. I have a Johnson 65hp motor sitting on it now (weighs nearly as much as yours) and I move it around my shop easily. If you do this, all you have to do to remove your old engine and install the new one, is to rent an automotive engine hoist - they work just fine.

Step one is to confirm the year of the parts motor. Step two is to spend some time talking to a qualified OMC mechanic, to see if your powerhead is compatible with the other engine. There are also folks here that will probably know. If so, all you need is an OEM manual and some help from the iboats crew. If not, all you are "out" is some time. To me, this one is a no brainer!



BTW - BigB, why 14mm? As far as I know, his motor isn't metric.

 

[BigB9000]

Re: Lower unit question

BTW - BigB, why 14mm? As far as I know, his motor isn't metric.

I think the 4 main bolts holding on the lower are 14's?

anyone else confirm?

 

[Fl_Richard]

Re: Lower unit question

I've got a 95 150 it has four 1/2" bolts and one 9/16 up underneath.

 

[stourm]

Re: Lower unit question

Thanks Jay and BigB for the advice and help. I figured that with the engine at full tilt up and the transom saver in place it might allow the penetrating oil to help at least some. I had a couple of lug nuts on a tire once that we couldn't break loose no matter how hard we tried. Put a 5 foot long iron pipe on the wrench to use as a cheater bar and ended up bending the iron pipe. The ratchet was a craftsman and unbelievably stood up to the torque without breaking. I went to up to Auto Zone and asked them what they recommended and they pointed me to some creeping oil. We sprayed/soaked those lugs for about 3 hours and tried again and they both broke loose with ease. Now granted, this is an entirely different scenario because you can get to the threads from the outside of the lugs but I figured it was worth a try.

It has been in the mid to high 70s outside all week but my wife has been sick so I didn't have a chance to get out and tinker with the motor. Temperature dropped 40 degrees since last night and is raining and sleeting. Wintry mix and winter weather advisory out for tomorrow so the damned weather won't cooperate and let me do what I need to do outside. Don't know if I will get a chance to do it or not, but I will at least try to get some pictures of my parts motor and maybe you guys can tell me what might be good or useful to hang on to. As far as the year or model of the parts boat, the guy I bought it from removed that tag containing the model number and serial number. He said that since the boat and motor were both titled to him and he still had the boat, he couldn't let the serial number get away since he sold that motor as a 'parts motor' and so I don't have the little sticker thing on the side of the bracket. I will look on other areas to find some sort of number that may be used for identification. Maybe that welsh plug that Jay mentioned, but the entire power head is in two cardboard boxes along with all the nuts and bolts so I will try to dig it out.

I have a manual that sort of corresponds to my motor. The manual is electronic in PDF format, and covers from 48-235 HP from 1973-1989 including Sea Drives. I dobt that it is an OEM version but I don't know. It at least had good instructions for removing and replacing the lower unit which is all I wanted it for when I first started looking for a manual. I found one on Ebay that was actual original OEM manual and bid on it but was outbid. If I reach a point that I need to do more than what the generic one offers I will get one from Ken Cook.

 

[BigB9000]

Re: Lower unit question

want to email me a copy of that manual?

brandonco2@yahoo.com



anywho-

As far as the year or model of the parts boat, the guy I bought it from removed that tag containing the model number and serial number. He said that since the boat and motor were both titled to him and he still had the boat, he couldn't let the serial number get away since he sold that motor as a 'parts motor' and so I don't have the little sticker thing on the side of the bracket.

That sounds a little fishy to to. I have never heard of a titled outboard.