MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

[colburn3]

Here is the shortened version of my awful situation...

Last year in April I purchased a 96' 250CR Crownline (454 7.4L Merc / Bravo 2) for X-dollars w/ trailer. Good deal, low hours (340) and ran solid for all last season and up thru this season until 2 weeks ago. Engine was impecable or so it would seem.

I stalled on the water and lost shifting capabilities. Well, I had it pulled and gave it to the marina for inspection. Upon their review here is what they found...

1) Upper vertical shaft in drive is sheared off. Metal has contaminated the upper gear set and has caused damage in upper gear housing. Recommend a re-manned upper from Merc
1a) Upper bearing on lower vertical shaft are fouled with metal particles from failure. Lower shaft, bearings and gears all look okay.
1b) Recommend re-man upper
1c) Replace fouled bearings in lower, re-assemble with new seals, load rings, tab-washer, retainer nut and skims. Re-fill with gear oil, lube u-joints, ect...

2) Gimbal ring and pin is very - very loose. Bellows are cracking
2a) Repair / replace gimbal ring, pin, arm (if needed) and perform full boot job with gimbal bearing, intermediate shift cable and senders. Hi-performance exhaust boot per discussion with customer.
2b) Full boot job
2c) Gimbal ring, shaft and lever
2d) Sender kit
2e) Shift cable assembly

3) Rear engine coupler is very worn and if major overhaul is done it is highly recommended to replace. It is economical to proceed with this.

The total for these jobs = $9,372

First and foremost I am devestated facing these issues but once I settled down and realized there is nothing gained with anger and frustration I came up with a few questions...

1) Are these charges in-line with fair market price?
2) Can any of these items be put off or are they all needed?
2) Is it worth sinking $9k or cut losses and try to sell it? I am very defeated after this experience and really have lost enjoyment. How would someone go about selling a boat needing major repairs?
3) Would there have been any way of foreseeing all these problems. Would a surveyor have pulled the outdrive apart or inspected engine coupling? I bought the boat from a very trusted individual and couldn't imagine him knowing of the major issues (the boot job was obvious but MINOR in the grand scheme of things).
4) Is this throwing good money after bad?

Thanks everyone for taking the time to review this long email and resonding with ANY help / suggestions.

Your defeated fellow boater,
Jc

 

[mancho]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

First and foremost separate parts from labor.

Then the decision becomes more clear.

Can you click a mouse and research parts?

Can you twist a wrench?

If you're mechanically inclined it might be a whole lot less pain on the wallet to do much of it yourself. Figure your out for the season.

I would be curious on three things:

The steps that you think lead up to the stall. Wide open or wouldnt start after an event?

The amount you paid

The person that unwinterized it

Mechanical parts can fail but usually because neglect.

If you got deep pockets or get insurance to cover or a sympathetic admiral- then pull out the plastic and get back on the water and be happy!

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

I just read your previous thread, in it you mentioned that you were able to get the engine back into neutral, and get the boat started. Then with difficulty, got the drive to shift and engage forward and reverse, and it moved the boat a little while tied up?

How you can shift into all the gears with a sheared off shaft?

Did you feel a hit from anything in the water that may have caused the damage?

To sell a boat needing drive work, is going to be a reduced interested market, and the price is going to reflect the work that's needed.

 

[colburn3]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

Parts - $6,575
Labor - $2,362
Tax - $394

This work is a mountain worth and I wouldn't trust myself to do it right. I am mechanically inclined but lack tools / equipment required to, say, pull the engine to replace the coupler.

Marina believes a small crack in the shaft had finally gave into the time, stress and heat. He believes this crack might have been caused by an impact long ago because I have been very delicate in cruising around ect...

I was cruising back to the marina (3/4 throttle) and lost thrust. I Shut the engine off immediately and began inspecting. Nothing surfaced but I knew it was shift related because I started up the engine once I worked it back into nuetral and it sounded normal.

When I was back at the marina in my slip I bumped the boat around and could hear the gears drop and it seems as though I could go forward and reverse. When I came back to pull it out of the water I couldn't get any of the gears to engage. Maybe it was then that the shaft finally said, "uncle".

Maybe neglect but to somehow identify a minute crack in this shaft prior to buying was probably impossible.

In any event I'm at a loss and can't even begin to figure out what to do.

Thanks for the responses guys, very much appreciated.

Jc

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

Howdy,


Well some of the problems could be caused as a result of poor maintenance...........bellows, gear oil changes and regular lubrication of the coupler might have prevented their needing replacement by you. (previous owner is at fault here.)

The gimbal ring needing replacement is a result of the previous owner NOT regularly having the bolts tightened. causing slop in the steel steering pin in the aluminum (aluminium) gimbal ring. when it gets (wears) bad enough the common fix is to replace it or repair it.. Here's an example of what happens http://www.jrmarine.com/products/gimbal_repair.htm

Not lubing the coupler will cause excessive wear in the aluminum (inner) splines. Evidence of a LACK of lubrication would probably make me want to replace it since since the boat is in the shop for the drive and gimbal repair. Pulling the engine NOW will be cheaper and easier than doing it later when you're stranded on up the creek (without a paddle)

The drive problems could have been caused by any number of things but the bottom line is you had a catastrophic failure in the drive that requires COMPLETE disassembly of both the "upper" and "lower" and replacement/inspection of "everything" and reassembly.............unless the gimbal bearing and bellows was replace last year, I would replace them just because it's all open......a transom repair "kit" (bearing, bellows, "stuff") is not all that much money......

The alternative is replacing the drive with either a rebuilt/reman, new or used or "last-years" new drive......have a look on ebay for examples......

You could replace it with a either a Bravo I, II or III (which would be my choice!)

None of the above options are going to be cheap. Some of the "stuff' could have been done before you bought the boat but it's hard to tell when a drive is going to self-destruct!!


Is it worth it? Don't know......I could do it myself....(but then I removed a complete OMG King Cobra and replaced it with the 454/Bravo) If I would have had to pay someone to do it....... it would've NOT been worth it!

Sorry about that..........


Good luck.



Rick

 

[PS94]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

Look on the iBoats store..you can buy non merc uppers for less. you can do everything but the coupler with the engine in the boat..
$9K seems a bit steep, in my opinion...

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

Look on the iBoats store..you can buy non merc uppers for less...

Uppers?? Really? Who makes an upper gear housing for a Bravo?

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

Uppers?? Really? Who makes an upper gear housing for a Bravo?

I'll bet he means "LOWER"

 

[possum2082]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

get a remanned unit on ebay with a warranty, a "transom kit" from iboats and give it to the shop, i bet the new overall price will be about 5k.

and for 5000, consider it maintenance work that's unfortunately catching up with you (not fair, i know).

you're boat is worth a lot more than 5 grand.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

get a remanned unit on ebay with a warranty, a "transom kit" from iboats and give it to the shop, i bet the new overall price will be about 5k.

and for 5000, consider it maintenance work that's unfortunately catching up with you (not fair, i know).

you're boat is worth a lot more than 5 grand.

Great idea, except I am quite certain the shop will NOT install parts that he supplies. They make money on the parts they sell, they aren't going to accept parts they can't profit on.

HT, figured the same thing, that he saw the SEI lowers advertised.

 

[colburn3]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

Thanks all!

Giving it more thought I feel talking to a couple other shops might shine more light on suggestions. The 9k was the first shot out of the gate, if I talk to a mechanic about getting parts on my own maybe I'll get sympothey. If not, I might have to put this up on the for-sale block and a clever do-it-yourself'er will get a great deal.

Any other insight is GREATLY appreciated. I'm in a jam and so disappointed by the whole thing, I love nothing more than being on the water but this has really brought a black cloud over that lifestyle.

Thanks again!
Jc

 

[ButchC]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

Have you checked out SEI replacement drives?

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

Have you checked out SEI replacement drives?

Butch, SEI doesn't make complete Bravo drives. Only Bravo 1 LOWER units. It's the uppers that are expensive in the Bravo series.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

Google rebuilt Mercruiser sterndrives.Lots of places that rebuild/reman etc.
drivemaster marine.Jasper and a whole lot more.
Profile??You might be close to someone who can give a better idea what you need.
As far as a small crack in the shaft.BS.You could have accellerated just right or the pressure was just right or it just broke.
The coupler I woul;dn't worry about that unless it's gone too.If they havent pulled the motor and removed it to inspect it againBS
At the first mention of a crack.I'd have gone running!!!Sounds like the kind of mechanic that can do a compression test with his thumb.
Just my opinions.

 

[emilsr]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

Hate to hear that JC. I can't tell you how many times I've seen this story repeat itself; someone gets a "great deal" on a boat, only to see it turn into a money pit. I know it's little consolation, but you're not alone....this sort of thing happens all the time.

FWIW, my responses in bold italics.

1) Are these charges in-line with fair market price?

You'll definitely want to get some other estimates, but that's a lot of work and the parts are expensive. The other thing to ask yourself is if you really want the "lowest bidder" doing your work.

2) Can any of these items be put off or are they all needed?

From what you posted it sounds like they're all needed, but get a second opinion....more than that if you can.

2) Is it worth sinking $9k or cut losses and try to sell it? I am very defeated after this experience and really have lost enjoyment. How would someone go about selling a boat needing major repairs?

It's going to be difficult to sell a boat needing those kinds of repairs unless you basically give it away. Will you recoup your losses? No....never in a million years....but the boat will be worth nothing unless you get it in running order. Unfortunately it sounds like the previous owner didn't perform the proper maintenance and now you're stuck with the bill.

3) Would there have been any way of foreseeing all these problems. Would a surveyor have pulled the outdrive apart or inspected engine coupling? I bought the boat from a very trusted individual and couldn't imagine him knowing of the major issues (the boot job was obvious but MINOR in the grand scheme of things).

A surveyor probably wouldn't have but a proper mechanical inspection probably would have uncovered some potential problems. Easy to say in hindsight, but pulling the drive and giving it a thoughrough mechanical inspection is cheap insurance and should be done whenever buying ANY used boat with a stern drive.

4) Is this throwing good money after bad?

Yes, but you really don't have much of a choice. As someone else pointed out, now that you're that deep in this boat you might as well fix it and try to enjoy it. It'll be a nice boat (again) once repairs are completed.

 

[paultjohnson]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

A perfect example of the old adage.......... Your damned if ya do and your damned if ya dont.............

 

[colburn3]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

Thanks again everyone! Great to know there some knowledable help on 'iboat forum'. I will post as developments occur. Hoping to find the most efficient (quality / monetary) way to tackle it.

 

[colburn3]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

*Knowledgeable

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

Thanks again everyone! Great to know there some knowledable help on 'iboat forum'. I will post as developments occur. Hoping to find the most efficient (quality / monetary) way to tackle it.

You might go to what ever dealers you're working with and show them deals like this one and ask them if they can match the deal.

A completely rebuilt Bravo II for $3200 + shipping with a return policy or THIS ONE for about $3400 that has a 2 year warranty, might be a better choice over having them bolt your possibly contaminated lower up to a rebuilt upper and then having the entire mess fail in a year or so....... I also found a couple of brand new Bravo II's too on ebay for about $4000 or less.....


Those two examples above that I found on EBAY were in different places around the country........ you should be able to find another one a little closer to where you live.

Also, take a look at Bravo III's too. Your boat will perform VERY well with one.

If you bought a new one like above, you would still need to possibly do new U-joints, and do gimbal bearing, bellows etc......




Good luck,


Rick

 

[colburn3]

Re: MAJOR Repair Bills - Is it worth it...

The marina's plan for the outdrive is to scrap the upper and buy a remanned upper... He is charging $3,743 (parts only) and another $500 to swap old with new. He plans on re-using the lower, replacing only a few bearings. I inspected the bearings / gears on the lower and this seems to be an accurate statement on his part. The lower seems good to go outside of the bearings. But if he is charging me $3,743 for just the upper, the better deal is obvious. The (2) issues are 1) will the marina accept the full remanned outdrive from me and install and 2) how reliable is ebay / seller of outdrives? It seems as though you are taking someones word via phone / email. Has anyone had any horror stories with big ticket items on e-bay?