Mark Twain Restore!!

[Spinnaker]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

spinnaker-
any and all suggestions are ALWAYS welcome. please-FLOOD (no pun intended) me with suggestions becasue I am by far no expert in the boat restoration industry. I have been around boats since I could properly function but never did this much work to one.
I would love to hear the benefits of using structural putty vs PL to fill the gap between the transom core and bottom of hull as previosly mentioned.
Also-some pictures of leaving the fiberglass shell and putting new in would be excellent as well!

The reason I'd never use anything but structural putty is nothing will stick as well to PL or any other caulk for that matter. If you use putty it will become "One" with the structure. Kitty hair works but you can use talc and resin and make your own. As far as filling a fiberglass shell goes, you will not eliminate any air voids. Air is your enemy. It gives a place for de-lamination to start. I have a bunch of voids to fill on my boat and will show in photos when I get the chance. It just needs to stop raining.
It seems that when the manufacturers mass produce these boats they do everything half-assed. Corners are not bull-nosed and inner corners are not filled to make radius's. *** you may know fiberglass will not bend around corners and without the proper prep ( especially on my VIP) there is de-lam everywhere mat is wrapped around edges.

 

[boatflipper]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

The reason I'd never use anything but structural putty is nothing will stick as well to PL or any other caulk for that matter. If you use putty it will become "One" with the structure. Kitty hair works but you can use talc and resin and make your own. As far as filling a fiberglass shell goes, you will not eliminate any air voids. Air is your enemy. It gives a place for de-lamination to start. I have a bunch of voids to fill on my boat and will show in photos when I get the chance. It just needs to stop raining.
It seems that when the manufacturers mass produce these boats they do everything half-assed. Corners are not bull-nosed and inner corners are not filled to make radius's. *** you may know fiberglass will not bend around corners and without the proper prep ( especially on my VIP) there is de-lam everywhere mat is wrapped around edges.

Ok I understand about the putty being better now... i am actually ordering talc and 1/4 inch chopped fiberglass fibers and was going to use it to fillet the corners by transom-was thinking of using it in place of PL earlier on but PL seemed easier to do but now I may go back to the talc/resin for filling gaps.
I also agree with the mass-production theory. After reading through several threads on here it is obvious that the factory skimps out on quality at times especially around corners where they just bridge the gap. That is why I am going to make the talc/resin/chopped fiberglass combination to fill those corners then lay mat and roving on top of that.

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

boatflipper,
Most will use PL for bedding stringers but we also use PB for fillets, and around the transom. I made my PB using a combination of CS and wood flour, (saw dust). It will take a little time to get the mix right but not that hard. I didn't like the PB made out of just wood flour.
Bob

 

[boatflipper]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Thanks Bob
I am planning on ordering some talc and 1/4 inch chopped fiberglass fiberglass to mix with some resin to make the PB for stringers and other various bedding applications!

 

[lowkee]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Good work on the tear down, Boatflipper. Sorry I haven't posted much on this thread, even though I have been following along. Been in a funk lately looking for a new house. Anyhow, be excited, as building your boat back up is much more rewarding in nearly every way. Plus, your back thanks you every day you aren't hunched over digging away.

Did anyone ever identify that roll of glass-like stuff? I will tell you, that looks super thick for a fiberglass roll. I have heavy (2oz?) mat and it is a good 3-4 times thinner than what you have. I'd steer clear of using that for anything but filler, as it will soak down resin like no tomorrow. You think you are saving money on glass, but the added resin cost will eclipse the glass savings. Buy exactly what you need and it will end up being cheaper than using your free glass, seriously.

For the 9-inch center stringer, I would actually reduce it to a 2 1/2" stringer and top with with a 1/2" plywood "sub deck". That will keep the rigidity of the missing stringer and give you a good 6 inches of under deck storage with a nice flat bottom. You can even add a SS drain or two in the sub deck for drainage to the bilge, so leaves won't get caught under it. Let me know if this sounds confusing and i can draw it up on my tablet pc.

As for the transom, I would skip the seacast and just make a normal plywood transom. Your boat is apart, might as well begin from scratch. Seacast makes good repair fluid, but you are going overboard using it from scratch. Your boat will last 20-30 years easily with plywood decently sealed. Well long enough to outgrow your current boat.

As for the stringers, I bedded mine with PL poly adhesive and created a paste for the filleting. Be cautious with talc, as it isn't meant for underwater use and will absorb moisture if used as such, so avoid the temptation to fill some scratches on the outside of the hull with it. 3M glass bubbles is a better option for underwater applications. PL is uniquely suited for bedding stringers, as it is still compressible after curing, so small variances when the deck is on won't crack the bedding (or stress the hull). It is also removable with a scraper if you really mess it up (tripping over your own feet isn't unheard of in an empty hull).

Let me know if I missed any questions you had, or if i caused new ones. And nice work keeping up on the photos. I get bored easily when i see too much text and not enough eye candy

 

[boatflipper]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Thanks so much for all the info lowkee!!
I am glad you clarified things for me on that roll of glass. I keep looking at it and keep thinking how much resin it would soak. I will probably stick it on craigslist and see if I can get anything out of it! (if anyone on here needs it send me a PM and we can work something out)
As for the stringers-the idea you proposed sounds excellent! I also appreciate you offering to make a design of it!! However, I have already cut 3 sheets of 5/8 plywood and they are ready to be glassed down. And today I started cutting back the stringers and the ONLY place where they are a little squishy is about 4 inches back from where they contacted the transom. I even cut the top glass off about a foot back and they are truly dry. So im not gonna fix what isn't broken-i am just going to cut them back about 6 inches, get my transom in, and then bring the stringers to the transom and glass it together.
Also-thanks for the info about the talc/resin mix. I wasn't planning on using it anywhere but making the filler for around the transom where i will fillet the corners.

So-as far as progress goes, here is a little more info on where i am at...
As i posted earlier i am going to get a 1/2 inch sheet of ply to finish the transom. After the core is completed I am going to cut the remaining part of the floor out (for the bow portion of the boat-gonna be fun cutting the shape out.)
I am in no real hurry to order the cloth and stuff cause its not forcasted to get out of the 20's for a couple weeks and the shop i am in is about 20x40 so it would be hard to get it heated up enough to do the glass work. When it gets in the 40's i can build a fire in the wood burner and light some propane heaters (the industrial size 'salamanders') and i oughta be good then.
As for now i am looking at some carpet for when I do get the floor and transom in...I am assuming the glue used on the carpet will stick to the resin i will be using on the floor?? I was also considering the vinyl flooring and textured paint but i just like the idea of carpet in a run-a-bout. I will save the vinyl for the bass boat i plan on restoring once im done with this one

So I guess i will just piddle along until it gets above freezing!
Till next time-happy restoring!!

 

[boatflipper]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Well the 4 inches of snow we got overnight has yet again hindered my rebuild. I was planning on going to get a sheet of 1/2 inch ply and trace the transom design onto it, then finish cutting the ply for the deck...oh well....
Maybe the snow plow will visit my street sometime today....

 

[Spinnaker]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Hey Noatflipper,
a great way to template your transom or anything else;
Cut 1/8" ply (door skin) into 2" strips and use a hot glue gun. You can do your entire floor this way. Just use the strips around the perimeter gluing them together at the ends. Run strips across to add strength. Apply masking tape to the surface before gluing strips down. Makes removal easier.

I plan on doing this today myself so will take photos as I go along.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

There's a demo of how to do the strip templating thing in my Winter refit thread, about halfway through ATM:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=359639

Erik

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Hey boatflipper,
The weather is getting to us all. That strip template idea sounds like it might be a good idea too. I will go back and check out erikgreen's thread.
Stay warm.
Bob

 

[boatflipper]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Well I didn't let the ice and snow get in my way today!
I ventured out to 84 lumber to get my 1/2 inch sheet of ply and took it back to the shop. I built a fire and went to work!!
I started by tracing out the transom design I had cut out of the 3/4 sheet onto the 1/2 inch sheet. I then put them where they belong to make sure it was going to work and they fit in like a glove!
I then cut the final piece of 5/8 ply for the nose of the deck.
Now I am just waiting it to get above 20*F (preferably to about 40) so that I can build a fire and light some propane heaters so I can get the shop warm enough to do some glasswork.

Erik and Spinnaker-Thank you for the tips on how to make a template for the deck! I had already cut 2 sheets the hard way:redface: so I finished it out the hard way!

And please dont shun me for this but....Yet again I forgot to bring the camera along so no pics again. Sorry:redface:

 

[boatflipper]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

So I put my mystery roll of fiberglass on c-list today and someone wants to know what i will take for it. Any suggestions?

I have no idea what this is worth....

 

[boatflipper]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Well folks the fiberglass material is on its way
I placed my order with US Composites and Fiberglass Supply this morning.
Here is what I got-
From Fiberglass Supply I got 5 yards of 18 oz. roving for the transom.
From US Composites I got 5 gallons of 435 poly resin with seperate container of wax, 5 lb tub of talc, 4 lb tub of 1/4 inch chopped strand, 5" detail roller, and a corner roller. I also purchased 15 yds of 1.5 oz. CSM. I talked to a 'technician' there and he said for the deck he would reccomend one layer of 1.5 oz CSM and that's it...he said the transom however he can't make reccomendations on due to the 'safeness' which I understood.
I am skeptical about using only one layer of CSM on the deck....I will probably go around the edges where the deck and hull meet and fiberglass that, then go over everything with the CSM...

Both orders combined is about $325
$300 from US Composites and $25 from Fiberglass Supply.
Let me know what you guys think!

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Hey boatflipper,
Your list seems fine. I'm not an expert but I would go with at least 2 layers of 1.5oz on the deck. But that just me. I want to make sure it is sealed tight, and extremely strong.
Good luck
Bob

 

[boatflipper]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Well I was able to get somemore accomplished today despite the weather....

First let me say that yet again, yep you guessed it, I forgot the gosh darned camera

Anywho, I have the entire deck cut out, ready to be glassed in except for the bilge area. The original design did not have an accessible bilge area and I would like to change that...I am planning on tabbing in some ply to make a nice area-pitures would make this explanation SOOOOO much easier
Anyway, I also got 2 inch strips of 5/8 ply installed around the top of the hull for the cap to screw into. I was also able to mark out the 2 drain holes, ready to be cut out with one of those special bits that cut diff size circles. (Don't know proper term.)
I also cut the stringers back that contacted the transom to where there was no rot which was about 4 inches back from the transom. I cut an additional 2 to make sure I got away from that dirty ol' rot. I then glued 2 pieces of 1/2 ply together to place back into where I cut the old out.

So here is what is left to do before cap goes back on-
1>I need to complete the design for the bilge area
2>I need to glass everything in once materials arrive.

I do have a couple questions though....
1>I was told by a US Composites tech. that one layer of 1.5 oz CSM would suffice for the hull. Althoug I am skeptical about only using one layer, it seems that if i glass it down well, it will provide me with sufficient strength and water resistamce....Is this assumption correct? I know Bob already commented on this....
2>If one layer of CSM is ok for the deck, about how much resin will this take? I ordered 5 gal for deck and transom and am beginning to think that was a tad bit excessive...I plan on using a layer of 1.5 CSM on deck, topped with 18oz roving.....

Thanks guys for your continued support.

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

boatflipper,
If you go back to USComposites site, they have a usage calculator for resin to the type of glass you are using.
Bob

 

[boatflipper]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Well since I am sorta at a stand-still with the freezing weather, and awaiting the fiberglass to come in I guess I will get a step ahead and start thinking of colors for carpet and seats. I am not wanting to paint the boat, however I would like to change the stripe (was planning on buying the rolls from iboats store). So, if anyone has some cool color schemes up their sleeve-let me know!
Also, any suggestions on seating arangements...I was thinking 2 captain chairs for driver and port side passenger, then I was wanting to build a bech seat in back with a small 'sun-deck' to sit/lay on that would also raise up and give access to batteries and gas tank(s). Then there would obviously be the seating up front. Then I also have the two side panels to recreate, but I do have the old panels so making new ones wont be a problem-just trying to decide colors.

Also, if anyone is tech-savvy with photoshop (or other photo programs) maybe you could make some neat designs on the side of the boat with pinstripes or other cheap 'easy' products.

Thanks!!

 

[boatflipper]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Well I got the emails from US Composites and Fiberglass Supply-Materials from US Composites is scheduled to arrive this friday so this saturday i am planning on building a good fire early to start getting the shop warm, and then light a big 'salamander' kerosene heater to really get the heat cranking-hopefully enough to get the temp in the mid 50's.
Roving from Fiberglass Supply is set to come in the 24th so i will have to wait till next weekend to do the transom.

Wish me luck!

 

[Caravandaddy]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Good luck on the fg work. Hope the weather cooperates. I'm up here in Evansville, IN and we're supposed to have a wet, cold nasty on this weekend.

 

[boatflipper]

Re: Mark Twain Restore!!

Well folks I have some excellent news!!
The transom is IN!!!!!!It is glued to outer skin, the corners are filled, and one layer of CSM is over it!! I will put one more layer of CSm over it, followed by 18 oz roving, then another layer of CSM.

Boy was this a busy weekend!!
Day One:
I started by applying my fiberglass-like, gluey substance over the outer skin wich is what bonded my core to the skin.
I then made up a couple cross-brace type things that applied pressure to the transom unitll the substance cured to the core.
My glue-like substance was made up of the resin, talc and 1/4 inch chopped fibers. I mixed this up to a very thick consistency and then applied over the transom. I then put the core on and applied my bracing and let it set overnight.
Day two (today/Sunday):
I removed the bracing and everything stayed in one place so I guess that is a good thing!
I then made up another batch of filler, cinsisting of talc, resin and 1/4 inch chopped fibers. I also made this to a thick consistency and applied it to the corners, layed in a strip of csm, and then applied more of the substance over the csm. This really made the corners seem very strong and reinforcing.
I was doing this all in my shop untill I walked outside andrealized that the direct sunlight was actually quite warm!! So, I rolled the boat out and let the sun cure it rather than burning the diesel in my heater. This worked very well as the mixture was very hard after about 30 min of setting,
I then applied the layer of CSM over the transom which also turned out well. No air pockets that I can tell so i plan on going back over it with another layer of CSM when the roving comes in (I didn't put any wax in it so I wont have to sand!)


Now, I am just waiting on the roving to come in from Fiberglass Supply. it should be here in the next day or two. I will then apply it over the wet CSM. Once that cures I will go over with a final layer of CSM and call it done!!

Once I finish the transom i will be able to finish the floor.

I managed to bring the camera to the shop and took some pics, however the camera is still sitting in the shop (10 miles away) at the moment.

I am overall very pleased with everything thus far.