Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

striker3636

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

Which manifold gasket was it? Intake or exhaust? And did it flood all your cylinders, or just one side? Sounds like exactly my problem.
 

MILLER1966

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

I dont know for sure but bottom line is all cylinders got wet
 

nofuss

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

my trouble shooting seemed to show like an intake problem too. thats y i had them pressure test the intake manifold too. u wont believe how they protested and beat up on me in the end.
my engine now works and sounds great however i now have a squeak that sounds like something is not getting oil, so i am afraid to carry it out for a second run to ensure that the problem is fixed.
however other research on the GM4.3 seems to show that the intake gaskets can be a big problem. however i find it hard for both to go at the same time. However being a vaccum point, if water leaks from one gasket, the other side would be able to suck it in, with the help of the water pressure. and thinking as i am typing, i believe one bank on my engine always got a lot of water, while the other only got a small amount. never made much of it untill now though. not sure if that was the case in yours.
 

T-Max

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

...and then it started losing a bit of power like it was starving for fuel. Slowed down to idle, then back up to 3000, ran ok for a minute or two, then losing power again. Brought it down to idle again and it dies. Attempts to restart are unsuccessful as the cylinders are hydro locked. ... Got the boat home, pulled the plugs and found a significant amount water in most of the cylinders on both banks. ... Compression test shows all ok... There is no sign of any water in the oil.... Could an intake manifold leak of some sort put that much water into the cylinders? Would it affect all/most cylinders instead of just one or two? Any way to test without pulling the manifold?
Not at all familiar with your engine although I get the idea from reading the thread that it's a GM V8. Also not yet sufficiently familiar with boat engines vis-a-vis risers and flappers and all that. BUT, from what you've said, you should be able to rule some things out and maybe stumble on the source of your problem.

You said the compression checks out fine in all cylinders. That would tend to rule out a head gasket. Plus, as you've noted, you have the problem in both banks, so both head gaskets would have to blow at the same time.

And you know that ain't gonna happen.

So let's think about it a bit. You've got "a significant amount water in most of the cylinders on both banks." What's "a significant amount"? I have to assume it's a few ounces at least because you said it was "hydro locked." Can you give us an idea of how much water was in the cylinders?

The problem is in both banks and it exhibited when the engine was running.

I'm thinking you should look at all vacuum sources for some kind of water intrusion into the engine via that source. I'd focus on all vacuum lines into the engine. I cannot see how a leaky intake manifold gasket could be the problem since you'd need some source of water (if only condensation) at the point of the leak in order for that water to be sucked into the cylinders. You're not likely to find condensation anywhere near the intake manifold gasket(s) on an engine that's been running and thus pretty hot, even if run only a short time (which yours wasn't -- it sounds like it was well-warmed up).

You say you've ruled out water in the fuel, and I'd tend to think that any significant amount of water in the fuel would cause the engine to run very poorly and stall long before enough water could accumulate in the cylinders to hydrolock.

I suppose maybe some kind of fuel mix which would leave water behind as an afterburned product might be possible, but it would have to be something exotic and, frankly, I doubt there is any such thing. As you may know, some gasolines have a small amount of ethanol in them and maybe it could be possible for "too much" ethanol to get into the mix????

But I doubt it. And I doubt that's your problem.

Given how it happened, it sounds to me like maybe there's some vacuum line that's connected to some kind of boating gizmo which, when it goes dysfunctional, allows water to be sucked into the intake manifold via the line. Or maybe a vacuum line broke or came loose and went over the side or into the bilge and is sucking water into your engine.

I'd look at ALL the vacuum lines and check 'em all for signs of water in 'em.

Just trying to help. Like I said, boat engines are not my thing -- yet. If I get mine into the water next summer, I might begin to get expert on the particulars of boats and boat engines. And I do think that kicker motor sounds like a good idea. Not exactly sure what that exactly is, but I think I've got an idea of what it's about. And I think I might just want one myself before I wander out too far from shore.
 

nofuss

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

@ T Max, on these engines Mercruiser 4.3 V6 we have water heated intake manifolds, so there is water passing through the manifolds. It may be possible to have a gasket leak where water from the head to manifold, joint gets to the nearby intake port, then vacuum could suck it into the main chamber of the manifold and then into the other cylinders.

My trouble shooting led me to check vacuum sources too. I even pressure tested my intake manifold, as a crack or porosity in that area would cause that problem.
 

T-Max

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

@ T Max, on these engines Mercruiser 4.3 V6 we have water heated intake manifolds, so there is water passing through the manifolds. It may be possible to have a gasket leak where water from the head to manifold, joint gets to the nearby intake port, then vacuum could suck it into the main chamber of the manifold and then into the other cylinders.

My trouble shooting led me to check vacuum sources too. I even pressure tested my intake manifold, as a crack or porosity in that area would cause that problem.
Thanks for that info. Sounds tricky, but certainly if there is "water passing through the manifolds" then there's obviously the potential for the problem described.

I'll sniff around for more info on these engines and manifolds and see what I think. Meanwhile, I assume your manifold(s) checked out okay? You said that your engine "now works and sounds great." So what was the source of your water problem?
 

myredchevys

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

This same problem happened to me last week on my 4.3. Had water in all cylinders after overheating-towed back to dock and after a jump got it started but running rough. pulled plug wires while running and was only running on 3 cylinders. Checked compression and only had 2 cylinders with good compression. Pulled heads and had them checked -both heads cracked and most exhaudt valves leaking-also had a rust hole into one of the exhaust passages the size of a straw. Was on borrowed time just wondering how long was that leaking.funny thing motor was running good all season.Was also told when you overheat and motor stumbles and dies it tends to inhale water like a pump. I also had water in oil so i inspected the block and cylinders for cracks did not see anything going to try a set of heads and monitor this thing once I get it running
 

nofuss

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

@ t max thats the problem. i never found a problem. hoping that i could find it here.
 

T-Max

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

@ t max thats the problem. i never found a problem. hoping that i could find it here.
Well, then I'm confused. You said "my engine now works and sounds great" so what did you do to make it work and "sound great"? If you didn't do anything, then I guess you never had a problem at all.

I note myredchevys' post, and from that post it sounds to me like these engines are seriously flawed in design and probably are bound to fail eventually (which is basically what he says in his post).

Having said that, I also note his comment that he "Was also told when you overheat and motor stumbles and dies it tends to inhale water like a pump." I've read this same thing a few times myself, so I suspect that maybe it's true -- and not necessarily with regard to just this engine and not necessarily only when an engine overheats.

Given the OP's initial post, it could simply be that this is what happened to him and that he thus doesn't even have a problem at all. It could simply be that his engine stalled and then "inhaled water like a pump." Reading over his opening post again, it does sound like that's exactly what happened.

I note that after clearing the cylinders of water, he's only run the engine "for a couple seconds." If the engine simply inhaled some water when it stalled, that could be the very simple answer to the question of what happened, and thus he doesn't have any problem at all beyond that stall and the inhalation of water that happened as a consequence of the stall.
 

striker3636

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

Pressurized the cooling system today to 15 psi.... waited an hour.... 15 psi. So I guess that's ruiing out my intake manifold leak guess. Tomorrow I'll put it all back together and run the heck out of it with the muffs on and see what happens. I really hope this doesnt turn into a mystery "one off" that cant be duplicated... so much for reliability out on the big lake. I would rather find a definitive problem and know that its fixed.
I dont know what it takes to "inhale water like a pump", but I certainly didnt notice any dieseling, it was just idling one minute and then died.
 

nofuss

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

@ t-Max I took the heads off and reinstalled them. that was something that i did. so if i had a leak on an intake gasket, or a cylinder head gasket problem that would have solved it. however i did not find a definitive problem. like evidence of a blown gasket from checking the gasket. sometimes we are able to fix a problem in the mandatory steps to trouble shooting, without actually discovering what the problem was.

thats what has me uncomfortable. and in my case i did not overheat, initially. I only reached the heat buzzer this time and there was no water intake this time.

initially I would run the boat and then it would give trouble to restart and then it eventually refused to start when i checked there was water in the cylinders all 6, but more in one bank than the other. starboard bank actually drained water, while port bank showed water wet spark plugs to a small drain. changed the exhaust manifolds, then run on the muffs water ends up in the oil. and cylinders.

seems these engines are bound for water ingestion problems.
 

nofuss

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

ok i read your post again and i think u may be on to something here.
the first time my engine took on water it hard started and then refused to start and when i checked it had water in the cylinders. after draining it, the engine worked and ran the boat. if i remember right the second time, the engine stalled as i was backing up to set the anchor and i just set the anchor on one engine. when we were ready to go it would not start, water in the cylinders.

@ striker - try to think of any thing that might have caused your engine to stall other than the water. its possible that the water ingestion may have been as a result of the stall instead of the cause of it.

this may explain y i found nothing, but seemed to cure the problem.
 

striker3636

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

well, I'm starting to run out of options... I'm replacing all the gaskets as I go along in exhaust and I'll be changing out fuel filters, etc. If it runs ok on the muffs tonight, I guess I'm out of options and have to assume it's some kind of fluke event... My problem will be never knowing what caused it and not trusting that it wont happen again in bad circumstances.
I think our friends at Mercury will likely get a sale on a new kicker motor out of the deal.
 

striker3636

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

Well... officially stumped now. Put it all back together with new plugs, fuel filter, exhaust manifold and riser gaskets, rebuilt starter... Ran it on the muffs, ran perfectly for at least 20 minutes, no hesitation on throttle up, down....Fires up like a new engine. No evidence of any water in the cylinders. Drained the fuel water seperator, let it sit in a glass jar overnight, no indication of any water at all.
Guess I put it back in the water and wait for it to happen again. This is the first time in 4 years the boat has failed me.
 

T-Max

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

Well... officially stumped now. Put it all back together with new plugs, fuel filter, exhaust manifold and riser gaskets, rebuilt starter... Ran it on the muffs, ran perfectly for at least 20 minutes, no hesitation on throttle up, down....Fires up like a new engine. No evidence of any water in the cylinders. Drained the fuel water seperator, let it sit in a glass jar overnight, no indication of any water at all.
Guess I put it back in the water and wait for it to happen again. This is the first time in 4 years the boat has failed me.
I think there's a real possiblity that both you and nofuss were victims of "water inhalation" when the engine stalled. At least you both know that it can't be your manifolds, although I suppose it could have been bad gaskets since you have replaced those.

But I seriously doubt it.

It may happen again when you're in the water -- as opposed to running it on the muffs. It sounds like these engines are prone to that kind of thing. The fact that you don't think it 'dieseled' doesn't mean all that much to me. I think it could have done a bit of that without your being aware, especially with everything going on at the time.

Having said all that, I'm curious about this "fuel water seperator." I had no idea what that is but it sure sounded like something that has the potential to put water where the fuel should be.

Which is to say, inside the cylinders. So that could be an obvious candidate for the cause of water in the cylinders.

But I googled it and it looks to me like it's nothing more than a fuel filter that also has the ability to separate out any water in the fuel. And that's not going to account for the amount of water in the cylinders that you guys saw -- unless a whole lot of water got into the fuel tank somehow. In which case your engine wouldn't even run, and certainly wouldn't be running well now without having completely drained all the old fuel and replaced it.

So that ain't it.

I think your engines just inhaled some water and that's where you should be directing your attention if it happens again, or starts to happen again (your engine starts acting up again like it did before).

If you're hell-bent on finding a reason other than that one, you might just be looking for something that's just not there.

I say put 'er back in the water and keep your eyes and ears open. And bring some paddles and/or that kicker motor.
 

striker3636

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

Well, ran it yesterday on the lake, 30 miles at 3500 rpm then 7 hours of trolling.... ran flawlessly.
Guess we'll never know, have to assume some weird set of circumstances resulted in the pump effect that let the engine suck water back in. Hopefully it never happens again.
 

Adirondack

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

Well, ran it yesterday on the lake, 30 miles at 3500 rpm then 7 hours of trolling.... ran flawlessly.
Guess we'll never know, have to assume some weird set of circumstances resulted in the pump effect that let the engine suck water back in. Hopefully it never happens again.

Good to know it's back up and running. I'm going to give you a scenario from experience that may have been your problem.

You say your on Erie. Not what you could even on a good day consider "calm waters". The stall probably had absolutely nothing to do with the water in the cylinders. I can't in any way imagine any considerable amount of water getting into a running engine short of dumping it straight down the carb from a bucket.

I'm betting when your stopping to fish the stern of your boat is rolling into the waves, and bouncing up and down pretty good. Worse yet you may be anchoring off the stern, and holding it into the waves all the time. I know you checked your flapers and they check out ok, but if that boat is bouncing up and down for hours in a couple foot chop even a "good" flapper can let some by.

I know this because I keep my boat on champlain some times, and at one time moored it with stern to open water. It was hydrolocked the following weekend. With what seemed like a good flapper and all.

My rule of thumb now is bow always into the chop.
 

Maclin

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Re: Merc 4.3 water in cylinders

There is water in the exhaust all the time. Killing the engine suddenly while still moving can cause water to back up the exhaust, and into any open exhaust valve. Flappers help here, but are not 100%. Also, if the engine runs on or "diesels" after shutdown it can suck thru the exhaust valve and any residual water will go right on into the cylinder causing a hard start (or worse, keep reading) the next time. Worse? That is when enough water gets into one cylinder while the engine is not running, and when starting the next time if the engine catches at all then that water would try to compress and resist mightily until the rod bends or breaks.
 
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