merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

[tmh]

I posted about this in the boats section, but I think it's a better spot here as it is an engine/drive issue. i'll skip the details as to how i believe I was directly ripped off - I just want tome info if someone has it.

Is there a published labor estimate to Remove a velvet drive/tranny and replace with a rebuilt one? NOT rebuilding it, the drives were purchased and ready in a crate. It's a twin direct inboard with velvet 1:91:1 ratios. Nothing special and good access.

For what it's worth, I am NOT a complainer about high labor rates ($95/hr. in this case) in the marine industry, that's what the market supports. What happened here is the shop had a grudge against the PREVIUOS owner of this boat for, as I gather it, work that went unpaid or something - no lean, just pissed off. i believe he stuck ME for hours years ago then made up work he had done and also lied about his estimate for the two drives.

 

[Dave1251]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

It depends on your boat and how much room there is in you engine compartmet. It can take more hours to gain access on some boats than the time to r&r drives. I have see boats where the entire galley had to be removed to gain access.

 

[Bondo]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

I posted about this in the boats section, but I think it's a better spot here as it is an engine/drive issue. i'll skip the details as to how i believe I was directly ripped off - I just want tome info if someone has it.

Ayuh,... Like Dave said,... It's a Boat issue, not the drives...

For what it's worth, I am NOT a complainer about high labor rates ($95/hr. in this case) in the marine industry, that's what the market supports. What happened here is the shop had a grudge against the PREVIUOS owner of this boat for, as I gather it, work that went unpaid or something - no lean, just pissed off. i believe he stuck ME for hours years ago then made up work he had done and also lied about his estimate for the two drives.

I'd think that you really oughta find Another shop to do your work for you....
Personally,...
I don't go back to places I've been, or Think I've been treated Badly.......

 

[tmh]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

OK, I appreciate the info and will clarify. There are three larrge deck/cockpit hatches and wide open access to the drives. Large Shop with a pulley to yank the drives. No access issues at all.

Bondo, I do have a trusted mechanic to do the work now. The reason I was even involved with this shop is they are the only local hauler for large boats - they have the biggest trailer in town. I have no intention of even talking to them except thru a judge in small claims court.

I have no doubt they ripped me off and then lied about what I was told upfront - NO DOUBT. I just need something tangible to take to court which is why i am looking for a labor rate guide.

I know some will say "for 6-8 hours extra labor charge - it's not worth it" ... but I am a very fair person and don't take kindly to being screwed. This shop, and others like it, COUNT ON folks in my situation to argue, maybe write them a letter but then to get sick of it and drop it. This won't happen with me as I told him i'd take it to court if he didn't provide a refund and he thinks he called my bluff (and do so with profanity, etc.) - but I don't bluff, I tell the truth.

 

[45Auto]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

I don't see how a "book" rate on a transmission swap will do you any good unless you had a contract with him to do it for the book rate. I've seen a couple of corroded and broken fasteners literally add DAYS to a job, much less hours. My guess would be that he would say that anything over the estimate was caused by the condition of your boat.

 

[Bondo]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

I was even involved with this shop is they are the only local hauler for large boats - they have the biggest trailer in town.

Ayuh,... I'd Find somebodyelse that has a hyd. trailer capable of moving your barge,...
You'd be suprised how Big a boat they put on those little Adjustable trailers...
I donno where you're at,...
But I gotta believe that if there's Big Barges there, this ain't the Only show in the area....

IMHOpinion.....

 

[tmh]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

Please....Does anyone know if there is published guide(s) for labor on marine engine work? i was told there is in this forum so I am now trying to find a specific job time estimate from a published source. I don't want to seem ungrateful for the advice i am getting, but I really do not want legal advice or even explanations on what may add time to a job. I just need to know if such published estimates exists and what the time estimate is for r & r velvet drive in twin screw cruiser with mercruiser engines.

The guy told me 3-4 hours on each drive, just what others told me. He ripped me off and only came up with the 6-8 per drive after I wrote to him explaining why I need a refund. There were no circumstances that added time to the job, they did both in 1/2 day at most - I was told as much by the tech that did the work. That I was screwed is NOT the question here!

He held my boat hostage until paid in full which is why i am now going to court. YES, i may not get anything from this - I don't care. i am doing it, and do not need advice on that. I will never deal with him again except in court, so no help needed on that either.

 

[JustJason]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

Does anyone know if there is published guide(s) for labor on marine engine work?

Yeah... i have it. And I just looked. Mercruiser rates transmission only R&R's at 7.0 hours each. Keep in mind that would be for a boat that is under warranty from the factory (as in newish shape with very little corrosion). And engine/transmission warranty r&r jobs are sometimes negotiated a bit between Merc and the boatbuilder as to who is going to pay the shop.

 

[Don S]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

The warranty rate also does not include hauling, moving and blocking the boat.

 

[tmh]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

Thanks, Jason. Could you tell me what book or whatever that's from? it doesn't support my case but I want to know anyhow.

Is it specific to inboard velvet drives of a certain type?

Thanks.

 

[Dave1251]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

As someone who owns a marine business that is capable of doing this job, I think you would be better moving on and just get over it. Jobs are billed out based on total tech time spent on the job, not how many hours the boat was in the shop. There are times two techs are required on a job to safely r & r the drives.

If you are in a small market with only one shop that can pull your boat. You might not want to bite the hand you will need in the future. It gets very expensive to have some to trailer to your location just to pull a boat.

 

[tmh]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

As someone who owns a marine business that is capable of doing this job, I think you would be better moving on and just get over it. Jobs are billed out based on total tech time spent on the job, not how many hours the boat was in the shop. There are times two techs are required on a job to safely r & r the drives.

If you are in a small market with only one shop that can pull your boat. You might not want to bite the hand you will need in the future. It gets very expensive to have some to trailer to your location just to pull a boat.

Dave, it really makes no dif. what business any of us are in, I made it clear that I was ripped off by this shop and I know it. You weren't there and as such do not know what happened. I nicely asked several times in this thread to not preach to me on what I should do, now I feel a bit insulted so I am answering this.

IF we all just said 'oh well, water over the dam" when a service provider ripped us off then it would continue. I now have MANY stories from others of major problems with this same shop - basically the same story, held boat until phoney bill was paid. Yes, THEY all finally just let it go, paid and moved on...so now I am suffering from the same tactics.

I again say, it is NOT the money - this will cost me far more in lost hourly billing than I can hope to recover, if I recover anything. There is more to the story that I did not need to share as I really just wanted to know about book time estimates. the drives are a part of the story, but only part. The rest was not something i needed help on so i didn't ask for it.

I am amazed at all who feel the need to give "life advice" to another adult when it was specifically not asked for. I can and do make decisions for myself all the time,as i am sure you all do. Advice is asked for here all the time and we have MANY helpful folks who answer - which makes this an excellent forum. IF someone asked if it was worth pursueing this, then by all means chime in with that sort of post. But I specifically said I needed help with a specific question (and finally got a specific response, thanks for that) and also said I wasn't looking for help in the decision to take the matter to court - yet many replies were only about that.

Sorry to complain about free advice. however, I think we need to remember this is a help forum, not a lecture forum. If YOU wouldn't pursue this matter, fine. I will. I wouldn't nag you into pursueing it though if you said you had decided not to.

Oh yeah, as for burning bridges, I was unclear - this shop is the only one in town that over-road hauls larger cruisers. many facilities pull them from the water, block them, store them, etc. I have no need of the service again. IF I did, I'd pay 5x as much to have an out of town shop move my boat rather than soend one cent with these losers.

 

[JustJason]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

Its from Mercs warranty labor guide. And I have to stress the word guide. The numbers are not absolute by any means.

thm you will have to eat this one and this is why. You always always always need to get a written estimate and sign it before to authorize any work. If you got a written estimate and the hours came back grossley over the estimate then you would have a leg to stand on.

People always want quotes from me and I never give them. I give estimates. I often times give estimates with a big swing in hour times. Even something that is fairly common like a lower shift cable, i'll estimate it out at 3 to 6 hours. If you say that's a big swing in time... well it is. I'd rather estimate 3-6 and come back with it done on the 3 hour side, but sometimes things break, things corrode, things don't come apart. Thats just boating.

Next time get it in writing my friend.

 

[tmh]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

Yeah, an estimate in writing from now on for me. Actually, I did see him write down the 3-4 hours per drive on some sort of internal work order AS HE TOLD ME that was the time - I'll never see that document again. he knew the boat very well and exactly what the job entailed - as i said it was a direct rip off, regardless of the estimate, etc.

i have emails for proof of some of what I was screwed on so I may do OK on that. Either way I appreciate the help. As I said, I'd take the guy to court if for nothing else than to get him ticked off. Any money recovered is gravy.

 

[JustJason]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

Well then.... you do what you gotta do my friend... and good luck doing whatever it is your doing.

 

[Don S]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

Then take your stuff to an attorney, not an iboats repair forum.
We are here in this forum to help you fix your engine and drive, not your legal problems.

You have 3 choices.
1. Take it to an attorney and fin another repair facility.
2. Forget about it an find another repair facility.
3. Be nice and take it back to them in the future...... Probably not a good choice.

 

[tmh]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

Then take your stuff to an attorney, not an iboats repair forum.
We are here in this forum to help you fix your engine and drive, not your legal problems.

Don, I get your point, but do keep in mind the question WAS one appropriate for an engine repair forum. I just wanted to know about published book labor rates for a specific job, nothing more. It was taken in a different direction by others, not me.

That said, I am very Teed off about this which I am afraid came through here - my apologies for that. Thanks for the help, all.

 

[tmh]

Re: merc labor rate estimate R & R Velvet Drives

Just to put an ending chapter on my mechanic "issues"... I did take this to small claims court and was awarded a partial reimbursement of my costs. I think it was a very fair judgment and I am very glad I pursued this as I did. Thanks for the helpful info from the mechanics here.

Both the shop owner and I presented our case and back-up info professionally and there was no screaming at each other or the like. I think that's a much better way to resolve a dispute than going toe-to-toe and arguing - which just ends in name calling usually - with nothing resolved.