More political correctness

jimonica

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
313
Re: More political correctness

Quietcat, <br />Your getting hung-up on the word "might"? Okay, lets take it out replace it with "you do" or you "you have". I think most people got the jest of my position.<br />For somebody that was kind a railing against political correctness, I guess you have a little PC in yourself.<br />So, now I'm going to ask you again who is to the right of this Bush Republican party. Excluding Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy.<br />And if you can't name me a time when we have seen a political party veer so far to the right, isn't it logical to admit that this is an extreme regime?
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: More political correctness

jimonica,<br /><br />The Theocracies of Iran and Saudi Arabia and the pseudo theocracies of Indonesia and Malaysia to start, and how about the Baathist party and gov't of Saddam Hussein? I can keep going if you insist. How about Spain's Franco? How about Milosevic? Need more? See, I can answer a question.<br /><br />Let me try a different tack for you. THIS QUOTE IS ONLY FOR jimonica, I DO NOT HOLD THIS POSITION!!!<br /><br />"It might be true that the murderous Government and policies of Stalinist Russia was left of the current positions of the US Democratic party but it is pretty hard to find that difference"<br /><br />Yes, I have pumped up this analogy, but only to make the point that has so far eluded you. I am going to assume that you will see that quote as absurd, and it should offend you if you support any of the current members (or are a member) of the Democratic Party. Am I poking through here? I would never say that, because I don't believe it, but your quote is OK to you because it helps support your position that our Government is further right than anything other than Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy than you can imagine. It is a classic tactic of an activist. Sooooooo, again, if you want to be taken seriously, I suggest that you use supportable quotations and facts. The fact that you would continue to hold that there is a comparison between those two govt's and the Republican party, even with the removal of the word might, tells me that you still don't get it.<br /><br />BTW, I still have not heard one answer to any of my very black and white questions. Not one!!! Oh, and please describe how me being offended and angered about your assertion that the US govt, or any mainstream political party of the US can be compared to the Nazis is an example of PC behavior.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: More political correctness

Ya know jimonica, I feel a need to explain something. I don't care if I win this argument. We'll probably never meet, so why would I really care? Basically, it disturbs me very deeply that a seemingly bright guy, who probably is looked up to by some, would hold the hatred of any US government that you do. The US (this "regime" too) does more for good around the world than any other country or govt period, yet we are blasted by European leaders and some Americans on a daily basis. It's just plain wrong, and I wish that I could persuade you to be more careful with your assertions. That's it in a nutshell.
 

SCO

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
1,463
Re: More political correctness

I cant seem to break in on this thread. I dont have the energy any more for the research you are putting into it Pointer and Quietcat, but I am similarly disturbed by the slander that passes for politics. I dont think its both sides doing it either. The Democrats it seems will do, and even worse, think anything to further their agenda and support their perceptions that Republicans are mean , evil, noncaring, the embodiment of oppression, racism.... My Democrat friends, that is simply not true. The difference is not in the content of our character, but in our view of what will and will not work with respect to solving problems. We think if you give someone a fish a day, they will become dependent on a fish a day. For that we are labeled as heartless. We want to eliminate poverty, but think welfare increased it,along with crime, resentment for the haves and hate. We think that if you take it away from the rich and give to the poor, its unfair to the rich because they worked for it, and if you democrats really get your way and punnish the rich to your satisfaction, you will kill the golden goose and lead our country to weakness and vulnerability. Why should people work if they aren't rewarded by the fruits. That motivation is the engine that runs everything, and disabling that is disasterous as proven by the Solviet Union. ANyway, thats why I'm a republican...to make this a better world. How do you Democrats plan to make this a better world? . Holding hands and singing Give Peace a Chance isn't going to cut it. We'd jump at it too if we thought it would. People are savage...and good... but you have to count on the savage exploiting the weak if they have the chance. If we dont fight, if we lay down, we will be weak and we will be exploited. War has been a staple of humanity since civilization...and before. Gotta include that in your model or your model is not a good one.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: More political correctness

Yeah SCO, this has been a weird thread and I apologize for my part in hijacking it. I saw your other posts too and appreciated the support. Sorry I didn't respond then. Keep up the good fight. It is worth it in the long run. I honestly believe that the right is less likely to distort stories, attacks, etc. for the sole purpose of winning votes. I know there are bad guys on both sides. That is not the point. I also believe that there are some that feel that it is OK to lie if your goals are more honorable. IMHO the truth must be the guide. I know that I have a lot to learn, but some of these positions are simply laughable, however there are some who believe them and I find that dangerous.
 

SCO

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
1,463
Re: More political correctness

I think it dangerous too, and a lot of that danger comes from a misread or kneejerk stereotyping of who we are by the left. Id feel a lot better about it all if the left didn't mischaracterize and misnderstand us , but just thought socialism to be a better way, then we could argue and discuss points on merit and maybe take lessons from each other. But, there is no argument here..no discussion possible. It has become a war of slander.
 

jimonica

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
313
Re: More political correctness

SCO and Quietcat,<br />Let start out by debunking all the socialist talk.<br />No one is a bigger capitalist than myself. I've work all but 4 years of my adult life on straight commission sales. Thats about as raw capitalism as it gets.<br />If you go to http:/money.cnn.com/2004/01/21/markets/election_demsvreps/ you will be surprised to learn that markets actually do better under the Dems than the Repubs, by quite a bit. This is one of the reasons I'm a Democrat. <br />SCO you mentioned Germany and Charles Lindburgh. First I'd like to say Germany declared war on the US after the Pearl Harbor attack. As for Charles Lindburgh, it wouldn't surprise one bit if he was against the war. He was a Nazi sympathizer and flew over to Germany and visited Hitler. By the way he was a conservative, not a liberal.<br />As for Bush and what I believe puts him on the far right?<br />The energy bill was basically written by energy insiders.<br />The bankruptcy bill was written by the credit card companies.<br />We have the Blue Sky and Healthy forest initiative basically catering to the wishes of the corporate polluters.<br />Bush turned back the amount of arsenic level in our drinking water.<br />They passed a bill that would allow employers not to have pay overtime, instead they give them a paid day off at straight time.<br />In fact when faced with a labor management strife, I can't think of a single time the Republicans sided with the worker over the management.<br />As for protecting our Country I'm a hawk when it comes to the defense of our Country. <br />We had Saddam all bottled up. He wasn't going anywhere. The money we are spending on Iraq could go into finding Osama and shoring up our own defenses at home.
 

jimonica

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
313
Re: More political correctness

Quitcat,<br />Now I can't use the word "regime". Maybe you can give me list of words that offend you, so I can be PC from now on.<br />As for the list of Dictators you mentioned, Franco would probably be close to Mussolini on the political spectrum.<br />Milosevic I thought was a commie, anyway I don't care I'm about done with this thread. I don't have the time or energy to start looking up the political views of every 2 bit dictator. <br />I think a reasonable person can agree this Bush Adm. is way far right, the farthest right this country has seen.
 

CJY

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
1,242
Re: More political correctness

I just wanted to know: <br /><br />"Are we the only country concerned with political correctness. I mean, do other countries think about it before they act or speak? Are they concerned they may offend the US or someone else? <br /><br />But, you said Pointer: "I can't imagine why I would think teachers lean towards the liberal. 98.8% of their unions national contributions go to democrats."<br /><br />There is good reason for it.<br /><br />You do understand that Reps just cut funding a year ago to schools in Ohio. It cost my district 45% of its yearly budget. They could have increased taxes on cigs., or alcohol or handled this other ways. Our republican governor said nope, cut money to the schools. You know,money to those we expect to lead our future. How does this grab ya - reps rid the nation of public schools, you know, us libs. Then fund charter, private, parochial schools operated by the , you know, the conservatives, teach religion and the values that no lib has(according to reps anyway), and no lib is ever elected again. I wonder if that sounds like a history lesson?<br /><br />DJ,<br /><br />"The "hate US" sixties crowd is well ensnonced, in our government shools. Until that generation passes, we're doomed."<br /><br />It won't change. Until reps decide to become teachers at a greater rate than the present, it will always weigh in favor of libs. Reps are busy worrying about their bucks, rather than the measly few teachers get for educating the future. Go ahead, tell me I am wrong, but also tell me why conservatives stay out of public education.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: More political correctness

Originally posted by jimonica:<br /> I think a reasonable person can agree this Bush Adm. is way far right, the farthest right this country has seen.
Too bad it is not true. I understand why you think so. It still amazes me that you haven't answered any one of my questions. The fact that you're capitalist has nothing to do with a discussion of the right left spectrum and how different govt's compare. I thought my analogy was very similar but opposite to yours, but no reaction. Also, in fairness and in the interest of honest discussion, I looked up regime:<br /><br />re·gime also ré·gime ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-zhm, r-)<br />n. <br /><br />A form of government: a fascist regime. <br />A government in power; administration: suffered under the new regime. <br />A prevailing social system or pattern. <br />The period during which a particular administration or system prevails. <br />A regulated system, as of diet and exercise; a regimen.<br /><br />It appears to be more generic than I would use it. I assert that it carries a negative connotation, but not a big deal.<br /><br />I am done too, but it could have been a logical, mind opening debate for both of us.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: More political correctness

jimonica,<br /><br />If you can't capture my attention in the first sentence, or two, you're trying to "baffle me with B.S."<br /><br />By the way, learn a "sentence break" and paragraph-will ya?<br /><br />CJY,<br /><br />The "Sixties Crowd" has long left the classroom, they're the "administrators" now. Over degreed idiots, in my book.
 

CJY

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
1,242
Re: More political correctness

DJ,<br /><br />Nice! Would you like me to begin breaking down your writing style for you? This is an on-line threaded discussion, not a research paper for a journalism class.<br /><br />You think we are over-degreed idiots. Well, in my book, I think you are an under-educated idiot that believes he knows everything. If you knew anything about public education, you would not make the statements that you do. You need to check the standards to which today's students graduate. Compare them to the standards to when you graduated. Heck, just check graduation rates or post HS college rates to your own year of graduation. I promise you, they have increased in both areas. I have heard you boast of the wonders NCLB has done. Are you now saying that it is not doing as you have boasted of in previous threads? I think you need to pick a side and stick with it. Picking one as it suits your needs does little for your credibility.
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: More political correctness

I don't get it. Questions were asked and answered. Then when questions are sent back, and the topic changes. Do the questions scare you? Do you not have answers? Why is it people answer your questions completely and you simply change the topic. Your points are refuted and proven wrong and you declare victory. Kind of reminds me of the Gore campaign. History has proven that - GORE LOST. But I am still waiting for your valuable insight into who did the recount that said he won. And then comes everyone's favorite bomb, "the Hitler". Bravo!!! I am no Republican, but that isn't what this was about. It is about flower children indoctrinating our children with their PC double talk. It's liberals putting condoms on cucumbers and failing to graduate people who can read. It's hop in the bus we are off to the abortion clinic so your parents don't find out. Good thing they know better than the legal guardians, and if they usurp parental rights in the process - that’s ok, they are smarter, just ask them. And then, to top it off, claim it is the presidents fault.<br /><br />Your theory on taxes is really irrelevant within the discussion of left or right. Fiscal policy can change in one day. But the murder of a million babies a year has taken 40 years, and still is available on demand, and subsidized by tax dollars. Private property rights are eroding every year. 20 years ago NAMBLA would have caused outrage in every sector of society but the liberals are now defending them. (ACLU) I would much rather see someone from the boardroom come to government than the second and third generation professional politicians that you think are more enlightened. Fat boy Teddy???<br /><br />But having a wife as a teacher, which I do (one of those conservatives who won't enter the education field, oh no that’s not right) I see the feminization of the little boys, the time wasted on non-essential education, dumbing down of the curriculum, social advancement not progress, an ever decreasing position in the world of our educational system. I think we are at 22nd in the world now. We used to be first!!!! The removal of god from the classroom replaced with a more PC authority. In fact questioning and trashing god is in vogue. I see teachers who couldn't make it in any other field and the abuse they inflict on the young minds is unimaginable. I hear filthy language in the halls and that is tolerated. I see food and drinks on the desk during class time. Then I hear how uniforms are a form of discrimination. Home schooled children are thriving and you don't understand why. My wife has stated that she would never have one of our children in public school. And she works for one.<br /><br />I hear foolishness like your Hitler analogy and I ask myself, how many desegregated schools did Hitler have, how many government contracts did Hitler set aside for Blacks, African Americans, or whatever I should be calling my fellow countrymen. How many scholarships did Hitler offer to members of minority groups, or for students from overseas? How many laws protecting peoples religious beliefs did Hitler pass? How many million man marches did Hitler have? How many programs did Hitler have to invigorate minority businesses? How many free abortions did Hitler pay for on demand? How many Gay Pride parades took place under Hitler? Did Hitler pass any hate crime legislation? How much international aid did Hitler pass around? How is our military service like Hitler’s? Hitler’s Press is just like ours right? How many countries has GW taken over? Not liberated – taken over? How many millions of immigrants a year did Hitler let in Germany? How many sicko’s like Michael Moore were there in 1939 Germany roaming around making movies full of lies against the standing gov.? <br /><br />This is priceless:<br /><br />You do understand that Reps just cut funding a year ago to schools in Ohio. It cost my district 45% of its yearly budget. They could have increased taxes on cigs., or alcohol or handled this other ways. Our republican governor said nope, cut money to the schools. You know,money to those we expect to lead our future. How does this grab ya - reps rid the nation of public schools, you know, us libs. Then fund charter, private, parochial schools operated by the , you know, the conservatives, teach religion and the values that no lib has(according to reps anyway), and no lib is ever elected again. I wonder if that sounds like a history lesson?<br /><br /> <br />In one statement you say that the schools are not liberal bastions and in this one you say they are? I’m confused.<br /><br />Great liberal thinking, we want more funding so we TAX ALCOHOL AND CIGS. Tax Tax Tax Tax Tax. Why, because we said we need it. Try spending some of that democratic party contribution on books. Not very PC!!!!! Why not tax condoms, sex toys, the internet (oh wait Gore did that, well what’s alittle more), video games, hairspray, increase the fines on Marijuana possession real high!!!!!! Better yet, ask yourself why people want to go to parochial schools? Oh yea, to get a better education with values. Morality can be defined there. Test scores are higher, and parents are treated with respect when working with their children, not talked down to by a bunch of know it all, condescending, public servants. My wife came home sick after she supervised other teachers during a parent teacher conference day because of the way the teachers talked to the parents. But her master’s degree and 10 yrs experience doesn’t make her qualified to evaluate others. It’s not PC. When things go wrong look inside before blaming and spending. And if your cause is just, we have things called elections. FYI the rep’s in Washington are spending more money than the Clinton administration on education.<br /><br />But you are right, it is a conspiracy to remove all liberals. Sound like a history lesson – or paranoia?
 

SCO

Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
1,463
Re: More political correctness

Lindburg was on of many that wanted to stay out of the war, aka isolationists. Point is the anti war movement kept us out, England out... They appeased Hitler, let him reclaim land, and he built and built strength. Nobody wanted to take him on and it cost millions of soldiers lives. It is a good analogy. Germany declared war against us right after Pearl Harbor, but so what from the current view. Id say that Hussain's attempt on GHWBush's life was an act of war. No one is polite enough to declare war now adays. <br /><br />WRT Afghanistan, we are there, finding Osama, but we arent in Iran, arent in Syria or Korea, and there would also be a haven in Iraq but we established a beachhead there. The insurgent bomb money is coming from elsewhere, not Iraq. We'd win it but the enemy is encouraged by our division. Do your kids listen when you are disagreeing with your wife about handing over the car keys? No. Not unless you override wife and declare dominance. They have hope that they will prevail. They see that we are losing heart on the whole. That's all it takes to set a decline in motion. You people are taking us down. If we tuck tail and run, then all the righteous would think they were on the wrong side, the insurgents would quickly take over, multiply, and embrace Osama's Islamic view out of fear. Stockholm syndrome.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: More political correctness

after several hours of looking at the yellow cake issue I concluded its mostly a scare tactic. the yellow cake we found in Iraq was under lock and seal of the international atomic committe and the amount,unknown, of enriched urainium was disposed of in russia in 92-93. however there is a bigger problem brewing in Iraq,kuwait and now Afghanistan.<br /> http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/uranium.html <br /> having worked with DU rounds for some years and done rad testing in magazines and handled the stuff I can tell you it can be nasty. much nastier than some yellow cake.<br /> like I told my late father about geehaws idiotic WMD speech. we eliminated his capeability of manufacturing WMD's in the early ninties. the production of WMD's and the delivery systems requires a vast amount of electrical generating power, a system saddam and his cronies lacked. plus we had and were monitoring the electrical comsumption/generation of iraq just looking for a sign or the reemergence of a weapons project. most the mid level techs that are required to run a programm bailed out in the early 90's leaving those that we so high up they could not leave and those that had just enough intelligence to sweep the floor.<br /> while I never liked blix apperently he was right all along. but I still say we are in the wrong place fighting the wrong peoples.<br /><br /> but for DU rounds to be so safe we still had to wear gloves when handing ammo and ammo boxes and wash all spent sabot pieces off the deck with a seawater hose. we were warned not to handle them.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: More political correctness

CJY,<br /><br />Name calling is the last resort of a liberal. I see that you had to resort to it.<br /><br />I have three teachers and one administrator (public schools), in my family, do not tell me I know nothing of todays education system.<br /><br />I took an on line version of the Arizona AIMS test. That is the test required to graduate an AZ public school.<br /><br />What a joke.
 

jimonica

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 4, 2005
Messages
313
Re: More political correctness

DJ,<br />I'm sorry your attention span is so short, I'll try to keep it to what will fit on a bumper sticker for "ya" next time.<br />Also, are we to assume that all your conservative friends on this page write in perfect sentences and paragraphs? Or are you just selectively outraged by bad writing.<br />As to the name calling, apparently I was called a name on this very thread and it was edited out. And for the record, you started the named calling with your "over degreed idiots" remark.<br />People with your hostility toward education is part of the problem with our country today. There used to be a time when we looked up to the educated in our society. Is seems to me that we have a concerted effort in our country to silence the intellectuals by marginalizing them. And we are seeing the results of this hostility towards education by the United States slipping way behind our economic competitors in the sciences, math and engineering.<br />You know throughout history when a country or village was taken over by their enemies, one of the first things the conquering army did was to take all the political leaders, teachers and intellectuals, gather them together and execute them. I kind of see a parallel here, in a figurative way.
 
D

DJ

Guest
Re: More political correctness

The hostility toward education is because of its abject FAILURE. More money is thrown at education than practically any other civilized society, with lousy results. Plus, we test everyone. Other countries are still allowed to "discriminate" and put forward their best and brightest. They still allow competition. We have succombed to the "fairness" syndrome.<br /><br />I will grant you that many of the problems stem from the broken home syndrome (lack of family support) that we Americans have fostered. But, not ALL.<br /><br />However, knowing the educators in my family, I can tell you that they are sick of the garbage handed to them to teach and administer. Teachers are no longer able to teach according to their classes. They must "tow the line" or be disciplined. <br /><br />"Top down" management style, adapted by Federal and State education departments reek of socialism. In other words, catering to the lowest common denominator.<br /><br />I'll stick to my "over educated idiots" remark. Besides I NEVER directed that title at any one person. I used it as an "in general" opinion. I cannot help it CJY felt that the comment was directed toward him/her. CJY did direct it to one person-ME! <br /><br />Educators are primarily promoted based upon the number of degree notches on their belts. Not on merit, performance or success in actually TEACHING. That is NOT real world. That is a major reason for the distress our educational system is in.<br /><br />Just a lowly idiots opinion. You have yours, shall mine be silenced?<br /><br />Trouble is, I do not have an overly powerful union to shove my opinions down your throat. All I have is forums, such as this and the ballot box-for now.<br /><br />My salutation sums it up.
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: More political correctness

BTW, jimonica, I never called you a name, never posted it, never edited it. I used the "shift" button and held down the hyphen key with my very own fingers. Yes, I was prepared to call you a name, but I took a slightly higher road and decided you could fill in the blank. If you have to know I was planning to call you an idiot, but thought better of it.<br /><br />Now with that out of the way, would you please answer my simple questions? I hold no animosity towards you other than what I have stated. I believe your assertions about the position of this Administration in history are lies. You asked me to clarify that and I did. You asked me to name regimes that have been further right in history and I did. Please for the sake of two way debate (or multi-way for that matter) respond. I want to take you seriously, but you won't let me . . . :confused:
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: More political correctness

When did the term "Intellectual" equal educator or liberal? I would call Jack Welch an intellectual, same with Bill Gates, William F. Buckley, William Bennett, VP Cheney, GW Bush, as well as Al Gore, Lawrance Tribe, Alan Dershewitz, oh yea, and Ward Churchill. How about Lenin, Marx, Stalin, or Jim Jones?<br /><br />My interpretation would be that anyone engaged in Politically Correct conduct cannot be, by definition, an intellectual as it is all about emotion an nothing to do with rational thinking.<br /> <br /><br />definition:<br />a. Of or relating to the intellect. b. Rational rather than emotional. <br /><br />Appealing to or engaging the intellect: an intellectual book; an intellectual problem. <br /><br />a. Having or showing intellect, especially to a high degree. See Synonyms at intelligent. b. Given to activities or pursuits that require exercise of the intellect
 
Top