Motor Oil

TheOilDoc

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
233
Re: Motor Oil

By LubeDude:<br /><br />I would think that a 15W40 Diesel oil would be a better choice. Dello 400 if it were me
Chevron recommends their Delo 100 for marine use. Not Delo 400 15W-40. <br /><br />Other diesel oil makers like Shell Rotella recommend their marine oil over their diesel oil too. Even Mobil recommends their Mobilgard for marine use. There is a reason. It has nothing to do with doing things "by the book". It has to do with common sense.<br /><br />Automotive multi-viscosity oils contain viscosity improvers. A 15W-40 automotive oil will have more improvers than a 25W-40 oil or a SAE 30. These viscosity improvers are susceptible to shear stress break down, heavy loading, and fuel dilution during marine-use conditions. And the automotive oils generally contain up to 50% more ash. This ash can cause carbon build up in some of the cooler running Mercruisers/Volvo's, especially when idling.<br /><br />Of course automotive diesel oils work, but in my professional opinion they are not the best. The engine manufacturers agree, the oil makers agree, and the NMMA agrees. It makes no sense to recommend an automotive diesel oil of wrong viscosity when there are marine oils of correct viscosity that are specifically made for marine-use conditions.
 

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: Motor Oil

Point taken, and cant disagree, I only said that thats what I would use and there would be no problem doing it. Like I stated in a previous post, the dello 400 has an ash content of 1.0% which puts it clearly in the middle of ash content for various oils. <br /><br />Also, the Mercury 25W-40 oil gets sheared down to a straight 30 weight in about 10 hours of use. Proven by oil analysis. Its really nothing special and I wouldnt use it for the money.
 

TheOilDoc

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
233
Re: Motor Oil

By LubeDude:<br /><br />Like I stated in a previous post, the dello 400 has an ash content of 1.0% which puts it clearly in the middle of ash content for various oils.
No, the Delo 400 15W-40 has an ash content of 1.41% which clearly puts it to almost double of what Delo's marine oil is.<br /><br />
Also, the Mercury 25W-40 oil gets sheared down to a straight 30 weight in about 10 hours of use. Proven by oil analysis.
Would you please reference that oil analysis.<br /><br /><br />
Its really nothing special and I wouldnt use it for the money.
It's one of the few oils that carries the NMMA marine certification. Clearly it has passed marine testing that other oils haven't. It certainly has better marine-use properties than the automotive Delo 15W-40.
 

vipzach

Lieutenant
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
1,283
Re: Motor Oil

....and this one time at band camp.....Sorry guys, I love these oil threads!
 

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: Motor Oil

Originally posted by TheOilDoc:<br />
Would you please reference that oil analysis.<br />
No Problem.<br /><br /> Oil analysis<br /><br />Intertesting that they stated that the Antifreeze was negative :confused: <br /><br />I suppose the fuel delution might be the issue with the oil shearing.<br /><br />TBN is good which it shoud be with the diesel designation.
 

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: Motor Oil

Originally posted by TheOilDoc:<br />
No, the Delo 400 15W-40 has an ash content of 1.41% which clearly puts it to almost double of what Delo's marine oil is.<br /><br />
Thanks for updating me on this, the place where i checked listed it as 1.0%.<br /><br />Why would this still be a problem when there shouldnt be any oil burning to speak of? Plus at normal oil change intervals in shouldnt be an issue either.<br /><br />I know that in my sons boat, the oil comes out pretty clean at the end of the season, and he hammers it all summer long.
 

Stings

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
40
Re: Motor Oil

ok so stay with the 30W like it states on my engine? i don't understand all that other stuff you guys are talking about, i just want my engine to last as long as possible.
 

trog100

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
751
Re: Motor Oil

the mercury engine oil dosnt claim to be a multigrade if u read the wording.. it might mention 25 and it might mention 40.. but it dont claim to be a multigrade.. it simply claims to be a blend of 25 and 40 weight oils.. <br /><br />its not surprizing it shears down to thirty weight cos thats probably what it is..<br /><br />i would also have to disagree with the suggestion that boat engine oils run cooler than car ones do.. <br /><br />the coolant temp might not vay much with engine load but the oil temp does.. at prolonged periods of WOT i am 100% sure that the oil in a boat engine gets far hotter than the oil in an average car engine ever does during normal use..<br /><br />its engine load that governs oil temp..the higher the load the hotter it gets.. not the coolant thermosat.. and that little guage on the dashboard has bugger all to do with the actual temperature your engine oil is running at when your boat is at WOT..<br /><br />mercury oil isnt a 25/40 multigrade oil like most folks seem to think it is.. mercury like to keep the actual weight of their oil a secret it seems.. <br /><br />the stuff they sell to bung in a drive is 30 weight but its hard to find out.. they seem to prefer "fancy" titles to making clear what the stuff they sell for inflated prices actually is..<br /><br />trog100
 

TheOilDoc

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
233
Re: Motor Oil

By LubeDude"<br /><br />No Problem.<br /><br />Oil analysis
Glad I asked. <br /><br />Obviously nothing in that used oil analysis shows a shear test, or how the oil was "sheared down". It doesn't even positively verify what type of oil was tested. It was your basic used oil analysis. <br /><br />But lets get this straight....<br /><br />This was the original break-in oil. It was used in a new engine 10-15 hours pulling skiers at above-normal operating rpm (4200). The owner used lead substitute, and he wasn't even sure what oil or viscosity was originally in the engine to begin with. :confused: <br /><br />Member LubeDude, I could probably stop my comments there, as most can see the obvious problems with your comments, and why these threads get out of control. <br /><br />I'll only continue for those who might be deceived by your comment about the oil being sub-par. After all, it is an excellent oil, if not one of the best.<br /><br />The first thing to understand is that a used oil analysis is done to evaluate the condition of the engine, not the oil. Usually for maintenance purposes or to identify engine problems. For obvious reasons shear break down of oil is done by ASTM tests, not a basic used oil analysis.<br /><br />Regardless, the first thing to do is make sure you're evaluating the right oil, and the right viscosity. It does no good to call it Mercruiser 25W-40 oil if you're not sure it is. You certainly wouldn't want to discredit oil that you have no idea what it is. Usually when evaluating oils, the oil is tested prior to using, to get a before and after comparison. This way the owner would've known exactly what oil he was testing and where it stood originally. And any accusations about brands or viscosity break-down could be verified. The boat may have come with a 30 weight oil.<br /><br />There is still much debate over whether or not engines are shipped from suppliers (Ford, GM, etc.) to Mercruiser with oil in them, or if Mercruiser puts oil in them prior to shipping to boat manufacturers, or if boat manufacturers put the oil in prior to shipping to dealers, or if the oil is added at the prep/dealer level. I've seen it happen all different ways.<br /><br />Next you need to consider that this was the original break-in oil. We all know that abnormal shear stresses are occurring during engine break-in. The first hours of use are grueling due to the initial mating and wearing of parts. Oil evaluations on brand new engines can be misleading (as member LubeDude has displayed).<br /><br />An objective person would also have to consider how the engine was "broken-in". Pulling skiers with a brand new engine above the recommended rpm range would undoubtedly put abnormal stresses on the oil.<br /><br />But it doesn't matter, the used oil analysis concluded that for the new engine, all looked normal.<br /><br />I'll also point out that the post member LubeDude referenced is over 2-years old, and would not include the newest NMMA certified semi-synthetic Mercruiser 25W-40 oils that are currently being used. <br /> <br />Regardless, you may want to brush up with the API's viscosity-grade read across standards. It would not be uncommon for a 25W-40 oil to exhibit properties of a 30 weight oil. Especially since the Mercruiser oil does not contain viscosity improvers and it is a Newtonian oil (the viscosity does not change with the rate of flow like non-Newtonian oils with viscosity improvers).
 

olbuddyjack

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
318
Re: Motor Oil

I think I figered it out Stings, want you motor to last? Dont start it. :D
 

TheOilDoc

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
233
Re: Motor Oil

trog100, you are correct about Mercruiser's viscosity. It's not a traditional multi-grade with the viscosity improvers. It's a blend of different weight oils without viscosity improvers. It has to do with that Newtonian stuff I mentioned and how viscosity improvers tend break down under stress. I agree that it would be no surprise if it exhibited properties similar to 30. Very unique oil.
 

LubeDude

Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: Motor Oil

Yep, should have read the post better, I just did a quick search, shouldnt have done that, I had my mind made up before I started. I usually dont go off on something half cocked.<br /><br />Oils for I/Os are strange things anyway, as some call for a mutigrade, and some dont even if they are the same engine. Some say synthetics only and some say not to use them, It boils down to if they sell one or not sometimes.<br /><br />I personnaly have no problems with using a multigrade over a single grade, However I wouldnt use a 10W-40 though as there is just too much of a spread. Even though a 20W-50 has the same spread, they dont have to use the same amount of VIs to get it.<br /><br />Thanks TOD for setting me straight on a few things. Sometimes I need it. :p <br /><br />I doubt we would ever know for sure which oils are just relabled when the F-WC oils start to show themselves. They may be just relabled diesel oils.<br /><br />I still dont think that the Mercriuser oil is anything special for the money just because it happens to have the F-WC designation.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Re: Motor Oil

I've used Mercuiser genuine oil (actually packaged by Shell in Oz), I've used BP Vanalles C3 Multi and C6 Global, I'm currently using Fuchs GT something. I change every 50 hours, both oil and filter. LD/OilDoc, how am I going so far? Engine seems happy with any good quality oil I throw at it. :D <br /><br />Chris..........
 

Dunaruna

Admiral
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
6,027
Re: Motor Oil

I'm also using fuchs Chris. Damn good oil IMO, and cheap!<br /><br />Aldo
 

TheOilDoc

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
233
Re: Motor Oil

Yes, the Fuchs is great oil. <br /><br />They recommend the Titan GT/GT Plus for most Mercruisers and Volvo's. They also recommend their Titan Universal for marine straight-grade applications. I see the strict Mercedes specification pop up with those oils, so IMO, they are some of the best.
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Motor Oil

Stings, all the other jibberish is just something to give OilDoc and LubeDude something to do.<br />If you use a 30W your in good shape. <br />In about another 20 posts, it should start getting heated and then the name calling will start........AGAIN.<br /><br />Got popcorn, and BEER. anyone want some while I'm up????? :D
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Motor Oil

wally world super tech. nothiong else matters<br /> lack of maint will kill it long before the oil wears out.<br /> seems its to freaking easy to just RTFM that is Read The (edit) Manual<br /> the SAE oil numbers are in black and white. the rest is just opinions. and opinions are like belly buttons.<br /> in 30 years of playing I have never seen a oil related failure.
 

Dunaruna

Admiral
Joined
May 2, 2003
Messages
6,027
Re: Motor Oil

Oh oh rodbolt, I think I can hear JB's footsteps coming down the hall.<br /><br />"In about another 20 posts, it should start getting heated and then the name calling will start........AGAIN."<br /> <br />36 posts so far and still no heated tempers, all involved deserve a round of applause IMO.<br /><br />Aldo
 

trog100

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
751
Re: Motor Oil

"36 posts so far and still no heated tempers, all involved deserve a round of applause IMO."<br /><br />well said..<br /><br />my main gripe about oil and other similar debates is the totally impossible search for the "best" product.. <br /><br />this really is a gripe about any question that starts off with "what is the best xxxx".. <br /><br />some folks are never happy unless they think they they have the "best".. rodbolt says he has never seen an oil related failure.. not counting lack of the stuff (seen quite a few of those) i dont recon i have either.. has anybody..???<br /><br />u have to bear in mind that for every dude that changes his oil tiwce as often as it needs changing and has used "super brand X" with good results for the last five years.. there are probably two out there that never change it at all for quite long periods and when they do use any old off the shelf crap.. we never hear from the latter of these dudes thow.. he he<br /><br />my main choice for a general all climate boat oil would be a good 20/50 multigrade.. at the top end it has some to spare and even if it dont quite manage the claimed "50" it probably does at least as good a job as a straight 30 at not thinning too much when it gets hot..<br /><br />but in truth i dont recon it matters a jot.. especially taking into account how often the stuff gets changed..<br /><br />folks forget that new oil specs are more about how long an oil can go between changes.. eeking the absolute maximum use out of the stuff.. they aint about the "old fashioned the more often u change (waste) the stuff the better" mentality that still prevails in the boating world..<br /><br />basically whats the best oil to use in my boat.. is a silly question with no real answer which is the real reason oil debates can get so heated..<br /><br />trog100
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Motor Oil

hello<br /> I deal with motors that typically run 100 to 150 hours a week. most all go 400 to 800 hours between oil changes. most all buy super tech at wally world. some of the engines are 93 5.0 cobras and a few 95-98 vovle 5.7s and 4.3's. crabbers are rather tough on equipment. ever seen a 25 souwester with a load of 250 pots heading out at full throttle then idle for 5 hours while setting/baiting the run for 20 miles at full throttle again?<br /> how many techs on this board ever see the lower swivel pin wallow out and take out the gimbal ring on a cobra or SX type drive? the pin bushing assy on a crab boat wont make a season unless I modify it. even modified the bushing wont last but a season. sligtly less if the go crab hatteras in the winter. when I do oil changes I generally put in it what the manufacture reccomends and there is no issues. but most my crabbers do their own oil changes and use waly world or whatever was on sale. same with two stroke oil. so now that I feel better today I must apologize for short answers last night:) :) . yesterday was a day of idiots. warm weather seems to thaw them out :)
 
Top