Need Help on Deck Resin / Glassing Process

[ERock82]

Okay, here is an update on fiberglassing my new deck:

So this past weekend was when I started the process. I worked about 15 hours over 2 days and have a lot more to go. It is definitely very messy as expected. So far, I have the bulkhead glassed and installed and the bottom of the deck glassed.


Here are some things that I want to mention:

1.) The deck gets a lot heavier when you put just 1 layer of CSM on. It was a already slightly bowed on the sides of one end but now it is worse probably from the added weight. I thought about laying the deck on the ground and placing weights to flatten it out but when i stepped on it a day after it dried, it looked like the glass wanted to separate on the edge so I refrained from doing that. Is that normal to do this - the separation? Ideas for flattening out?

2.) The peanut butter stuff I made worked okay but was very clumpy, mostly in part because I didn't use pre packed short CSM strands. I tried to separate them and mix in. Is there a good way to do this?

3.) When the deck dries there are some raised areas where too much resin was at. What grade is the best for sanding this down with? I have a regular old sanding block and medium and coarse grades on hand. Any tips for sanding?

4.) After glassing the bulkhead there was overlap on the edges that got resin on them. I had to use a rotary saw to cut the excess off. Luckily I did not cut into the BH itself. Is there a better method for doing this? I tried laying glass closer to the edge when I did the deck but there are some areas hard to avoid that.

5.) The 1.5 OZ cuts well with regular scissors but the 17oz is very hard. Any scissor recommendations I can pick up at HD?

6.) I was told that 170z Biaxl cloth (Not 1708) would work okay but I would have to put 1.5 oz CSM down first. I see a lot of people will tab first. So, I am thinking I would probably want to resin, then put 1 layer of CSM down. Then tab. Then put another layer of CSM down with waxed resin. Would tabbing be done between the 2 layers because if it were on the last layer then I would be using waxed resin. Not sure on the best way for this.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Woodonglass]

Okay, here is an update on fiberglassing my new deck:

So this past weekend was when I started the process. I worked about 15 hours over 2 days and have a lot more to go. It is definitely very messy as expected. So far, I have the bulkhead glassed and installed and the bottom of the deck glassed.


Here are some things that I want to mention:

1.) The deck gets a lot heavier when you put just 1 layer of CSM on. It was a already slightly bowed on the sides of one end but now it is worse probably from the added weight. I thought about laying the deck on the ground and placing weights to flatten it out but when i stepped on it a day after it dried, it looked like the glass wanted to separate on the edge so I refrained from doing that. Is that normal to do this - the separation? Ideas for flattening out? Once it's got glass on it, if you put it under severe flex it can delaminate especially when it's still a bit "GREEN". You should have tried to have it as flat as possible during the lamination/curing process. It's too late now!!!

2.) The peanut butter stuff I made worked okay but was very clumpy, mostly in part because I didn't use pre packed short CSM strands. I tried to separate them and mix in. Is there a good way to do this? Use scissors to cut the CSM into Very small pieces. 1/8-1/4" is ideal.

3.) When the deck dries there are some raised areas where too much resin was at. What grade is the best for sanding this down with? I have a regular old sanding block and medium and coarse grades on hand. Any tips for sanding? 40- 60 grit but...if you're hand sanding it's gunna be a nightmare to get done. Try to get an electric sander or it's gunna take forever.

4.) After glassing the bulkhead there was overlap on the edges that got resin on them. I had to use a rotary saw to cut the excess off. Luckily I did not cut into the BH itself. Is there a better method for doing this? I tried laying glass closer to the edge when I did the deck but there are some areas hard to avoid that. Babysit it more and use a utility knife to cut it off when it first starts to "Kick" and harden.

5.) The 1.5 OZ cuts well with regular scissors but the 17oz is very hard. Any scissor recommendations I can pick up at HD? You need BIG Shears. Go to a Fabric Store and buy some 8" Shears. They're pricey but worth every cent.!!!! You can re-Sharpen them too!!!

6.) I was told that 170z Biaxl cloth (Not 1708) would work okay but I would have to put 1.5 oz CSM down first. I see a lot of people will tab first. So, I am thinking I would probably want to resin, then put 1 layer of CSM down. Then tab. Then put another layer of CSM down with waxed resin. Would tabbing be done between the 2 layers because if it were on the last layer then I would be using waxed resin. Not sure on the best way for this. Check this link...Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms

Thanks in advance.

Got any pics?
See responses above in Red.

 

[JASinIL2006]

The one time I ran out of pre-cut chopped strand and tried to use CSM, my PB was lumpy, too. I just bought more chopped strand. Not worth the hassle of cutting up CSM, I felt.

 

[ERock82]

Thanks for the detailed response Woodonglass. I will try to get some pics to post.

 

[ERock82]

Update to project

Well, I suffered a terrible blow to my boat deck project and am about ready to call it quits. I mentioned how my deck had bowed/warped when I layed the resin and glass on the bottom side. Well it was so bad that the deck is completely ruined. I had it all done on the bottom (Edges trimmed, sanded, all foam holes cut, etc). I spent so much time to get it to that point. If you lay the deck on it's back, it comes up 3-4 inches on either side! In a last ditch effort I parked my car on top of it over night and when I moved it the next day it went right back to how it was.

I wish there had been some sort of warning or advice regarding this happening in all of the videos and forums I went on. It was fine until I glassed it. I had it sitting on two tires when I did this and I guess there was just too much overhang when it dried. Probably just common sense but this sucks.

I tried placing my two batteries on it while inside the boat and they did nothing. It needs about a 100 lbs on each side just to get it flat if I were to try to tab it down. Is there anyway whatsoever to save this deck?

If I buy another sheet of plywood and recut there are several concerns:

1.) I have a template to trace everything but how do I hold it down flat to trace? I can use clamps but even that my not be enough. I could get two people to stand on it but it may shift and not be exact.

2.) I don't think I can go through fiberglassing the bottom again. Can I just use epoxy instead of poly and lay down a solid coat and that be it? This is of course just for the bottom. I know epoxy can still technically crack but it is far less worse than poly would be without glass. Also, it would be cheaper considering the glass and poly I would have to buy. There's no UV ray issue on bottom either. Also, it would be less likely to warp again this way.

Another thing:

I found a boat just like mine for sale at a marina. I'm thinking I should go look at it and maybe trade mine in towards the purchase if it is good. I'm basically an expert on surveying my exact boat but there is still the chance I won't be able to fully tell if the deck has rot?..THAT is my biggest worry with doing this. The stress it would relieve is worth so much though. The boat has a fully serviced motor but it's another Force. My motor is a Force but it's completely shot. My original plan was to finish this deck and then buy a 2000's model Mercury 50hp with power trim and tilt. So the boat might be better than mine especially if the deck is good because it saves me from installing new carpet as well and doesn't have bottom paint, which mine needs to be removed.

I wonder what the value difference would be for the unfinished deck vs finished? Right now here is what is complete:

1.) Bulk head glassed, installed and tabbed in.
2.) All areas that looked suspect on bottom of boat have been patched
3.) Gas tank has been cleaned inside and out, installed and secured in place
4.) Seat bases are all cut

For redoing the bad deck I estimate 40-50hrs left to complete everything.

 

[Woodonglass]

I really regret that you've had these issues.
What kind of plywood did you use? What thickness? If it's already warped before you put the resin and glass on it's only gunna get worse. You MUST start with good, Flat, wood and if you do you should have no issues.

 

[ERock82]

It was just regular exterior non tread plywood. 1/2" thick just like what was on there before. Thee was bowing before but very little. The deck sat nicely.

 

[JASinIL2006]

That is a drag. The bow is too much to push down and then screw the deck into place, huh? Hard to imagine a layer of 'glass weighing enough to cause that much bowing, but that really doesn't matter at this point, I guess.

Personally, I'd be too stubborn to not try again, but that's just me. I don't know much about epoxy and the cost differential with polyester resin, so I can't help there.

I would say that even folks with a pretty good knowledge of what to look for can still bet burned with a rotten boat. (See friscoboater's second restoration, for example.) A little knowledge can help reduce your chances of getting a boat with problems, but unless you can see under the deck, it's hard to be 100% sure you're getting a sound boat.

 

[ERock82]

That is a drag. The bow is too much to push down and then screw the deck into place, huh? Hard to imagine a layer of 'glass weighing enough to cause that much bowing, but that really doesn't matter at this point, I guess.

Personally, I'd be too stubborn to not try again, but that's just me. I don't know much about epoxy and the cost differential with polyester resin, so I can't help there.

I would say that even folks with a pretty good knowledge of what to look for can still bet burned with a rotten boat. (See friscoboater's second restoration, for example.) A little knowledge can help reduce your chances of getting a boat with problems, but unless you can see under the deck, it's hard to be 100% sure you're getting a sound boat.

There is no where to fasten the sides of the deck down with screws. The only place I would have been fastening would be on the stringers. I tried standing where the stringers are and seeing if it would help but no good. The sides would be getting tabbed on.

 

[ERock82]

Is it possible I could screw the sides of my deck that are bowed right into the hull? Maybe just 1/8" deep or the shortest depth yet still retain enough strength to flatten it and then be able to tab.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Hard to imagine that would work... I mean, you might be able to glass some wood cleats to the hull and screw the deck down to the cleats, but that would probably be more work and expense than just re-doing the deck board.

 

[ERock82]

Hard to imagine that would work... I mean, you might be able to glass some wood cleats to the hull and screw the deck down to the cleats, but that would probably be more work and expense than just re-doing the deck board.

Okay thanks. Well if I decide to re cut the deck, can I just use epoxy and not fiberglass the bottom? I've always been told you have to glass with poly but epoxy I didn't think it mattered.

 

[Woodonglass]

Yes,NO glass is needed when using epoxy except when tabbing to the sides of the hull. You Might want to use some 6oz fabric on the topside of the deck to increase durability but if you give her 2 coats and carpet it or put vinyl down it would last for decades. I'm almost 99.9% certain you had a BAD piece of plywood to start with. This is the only time on this forum that I've heard of this happening. Did you do this layup on a uneven surface? What were the weather conditions? High Humidity? Direct Sunlight? If the plywood was "GREEN" and not totally dry it could have had an adverse reaction to the resin but...even so, to have warped so badly is kinda strange to me but I'm no PRO so maybe it happens more often than I know about.

 

[ERock82]

Yes,NO glass is needed when using epoxy except when tabbing to the sides of the hull. You Might want to use some 6oz fabric on the topside of the deck to increase durability but if you give her 2 coats and carpet it or put vinyl down it would last for decades. I'm almost 99.9% certain you had a BAD piece of plywood to start with. This is the only time on this forum that I've heard of this happening. Did you do this layup on a uneven surface? What were the weather conditions? High Humidity? Direct Sunlight? If the plywood was "GREEN" and not totally dry it could have had an adverse reaction to the resin but...even so, to have warped so badly is kinda strange to me but I'm no PRO so maybe it happens more often than I know about.

Okay thanks. Well, what I will do if I recut the deck is order some epoxy (A quart runs about $30 and that's about how much I used for the first layer of resin to penetrate on the bottom) and then do the top of the deck with the poly and fiberglass I already have. I will go in Lowes to see if their plywood is any better than HD. This will save me the hassle of reglassing the bottom and trimming excess off. I will lay this directly on the ground on plastic to avoid any hang down while drying.

To answer your questions, I had the plywood laying across two tires turned on their sides on a parking lot space so it was pretty flat. It's Florida so it's just hitting the 80's now but it was probably high 70's and low 80's at most when I did this. Semi high humidity but nothing like the summer weather here. It was in direct sunlight. Don't think it was green.

 

[Woodonglass]

I'd Highly recommend you glass on a Flat surface and not on two tires. Also not in direct sunlight. Get some old 2x4's or 2x2's and make something like this... to make your next deck on. It will save you the grief of warping plywood. Doesn't have to be that elaborate. Heck a Couple of 2x4's 4 chairs and some 2x2's laying across the 2x4's would work You could buy this from Lowes for $20 bucks or less.

 

[ERock82]

Well since I'm doing epoxy only on the bottom, the next time I'll be glassing will be up on the boat. I'll just lay it directly on the ground to epoxy. Is west system 105 good?http://www.usaboatstore.com/west-system-epoxy-resin.htm?feed=Froogle

 

[ondarvr]

Resin shrinks when it cures, so normally the side with the layup on it shrinks and the panel turns into a potato chip. Plywood also expands and contracts with heat and humidity, so you have two things that can work together to create an odd shape. It doesn't always happen, but in the right conditions the panel can easily warp. Once warped it can be difficult to get straight again. The cheaper the plywood the more chance it has of warping.

 

[Woodonglass]

One other question, did you precoat the plywood with resin prior to laying the CSM?

 

[ERock82]

One other question, did you precoat the plywood with resin prior to laying the CSM?

Yeah, I pre-coated it. I let it soak for about an hour then laid on a layer of 1.5 oz CSM and then wet that out real good with more resin. It sat in the sun for 5 or 6 hours. I noticed it being bowed after that. The resin called for 1 tsp of hardener per quart for the lowest setting. I think I used 32oz for the first layer in a mix bucket and probably went a tsp and a half. For the CSM I think I ended up using about 80-90 oz of resin and similar hardener ratios. I had to overlap pieces on the sides about 3-4 inches so the sides may have gotten more resin intake (not sure if that was a factor).


So, a couple questions for you:

Do I need to coat the new deck in the shade? I ask because there is a limited amount of shade where I park the boat. I can move it if that will help. It will be about 85 degrees this weekend give or take and that won't go down until October.

How long should I let the epoxy dry before picking it up? Does it need to dry overnight before I can install and foam?

Also, is that West System stuff good? If so, that and a new piece of plywood doesn't set me back too much.

I plan on clamping down the template to trace. Do you recommend clamping it bowing down or up? Also, if that doesn't work would it be okay to screw it down on the new sheet of plywood to trace? I would just fill holes with epoxy after.

Thanks

 

[ERock82]

Here are some various pics of the project and one just of the boat:

The deck got some rain water on it in the pic that has the seat bases. I dried it out the next day and everything seemed fine. It was wet for only a few hours. Apparently the wind blew my cover off some that day. The deck was laying perfectly flat and in place here.

You can notice on the pic with the dry CSM, that while somewhat bowed, it is no where near the amount as on the pic of the cured glass.

Another pic shows the top side of the deck laying on the pavement. Here you can see just how bad the bowing is.

Another pic shows my bulkhead and gas tank in place. I probably didn't need to put any fiberglass over the stringers here (they were fine) but felt better doing so since the old BH was rotted. I sealed that area very good.

Also....the deck is cut like that because it allows it to lay the flattest while having the most support. The right angle cuts are around where the seat bases go and where the boat curves.