New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

[77GlastronMT]

Hello All, Just bought my first boat, engine runs fine when in neutral, dies when put in gear. Don't know anything so lots of help is needed. Engine is MCM 165 4652940 and drive is Mercruiser 165, 1.65R, 4671777. Also if I try to start the engine in gear it won't turn over but starts right up and runs good in neutral. I was thinking something in the lower drive is bound up, isn't that where the spool gears are for forward and reverse? Doesn't the shaft turn when the engine is running? I want to pull the lower half to replace the water pump but don't even know how to drain the oil (yet).

 

[Bondo]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

Hello All, Just bought my first boat, engine runs fine when in neutral, dies when put in gear. Don't know anything so lots of help is needed. Engine is MCM 165 4652940 and drive is Mercruiser 165, 1.65R, 4671777. Also if I try to start the engine in gear it won't turn over but starts right up and runs good in neutral. I was thinking something in the lower drive is bound up, isn't that where the spool gears are for forward and reverse? Doesn't the shaft turn when the engine is running? I want to pull the lower half to replace the water pump but don't even know how to drain the oil (yet).

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,.... There's a wealth of Info 'bout yer boat's motor, 'n drive up in the Adults Only section at the top of this forum,...

I'm guessin' ya need a new lower shift cable,... They stick, 'n cause the shift switch to kill the motor,...

The motor won't turn over, in gear, 'cause of the neutral safety switch in the control, as it Should be,.....

There's lots of "How to's", 'n the manuals in the Adults Only section, Go for it,...

 

[77GlastronMT]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

The motor won't turn over, in gear, 'cause of the neutral safety switch in the control, as it Should be

Thanks Bond-o for the reply!! When I first tried to start it (seller told me the starter was bad, but it looked new) it just clicked. I tried to turn it over manually with no luck. Then I thought about trying it in neutral and it cranked and fired up. Does this still sound like the neutral safety switch? I was all ready to tear the lower end apart expecting to find seized bearings. I want to replace the water pump anyway, although this boat is well used regularly. I'll check out the adult only section and try and find some info on the lower shift cable. Thanks again.

 

[achris]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

That's the way it should work.

If the gear shift control in either forward or reverse, then there is a switch inside the control that opens the starter circuit... ONLY when you are in neutral will the switch closed and allow the engine to crank....

Chris....

 

[77GlastronMT]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

Ok, but why couldn't I turn it over manually? The history of the boat as I know it is: I bought it on ebay from a dealership in IA (they are on a big lake). They took this boat in trade on a new/newer boat. The previous owner drove the boat over from his house on the other side of the lake, made the deal, drove his new boat home, brought the trailer over, loaded this boat onto the trailer and into the yard it went. They had a week of heavy rains, no one pulled the plug, the water was over the starter, they drained the boat, and let it sit for a while and then tried to start it, wouldn't turn over, they assumed it had a bad starter. It sat that way for quite some time then it went on ebay, I stumbled on it and was the "winner" of the auction. I got it home (1800 miles round trip) and looked at the starter, it looks new. Tried to start it, but it just clicked. Tried to turn it over by hand and no go. Remembered on my parents boat (from 35 years ago) that you had to put it in neutral to start so I figured out how to do that and it started right up (had water running through it), let it idle for a bit and put it in forward, died, put it back in neutral, started right up, put it in reverse, died. Now I need to find out how to fix the lower shift cable. I truly appreciate the feedback, I am so new to boats, don't know where to start (well I'm starting here anyway) so all help is appreciated!! TIA. John

 

[makonnen]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

It would help to post boat year make and model, engine and leg year make and model for those of us who want to help but don't have access to serial numbers and information.

Here is some food-for-thought (some may not apply to your boat)

- Do you know how to put the shifter / throttle lever into "Throttle only" position? On newer boats (ie: 1990+), there is a button on the base of the lever that you push down before pushing the lever. On older boats, often the entire lever pulls out

- Shift interrupt switch Alpha drives can cause at least some of those problems

Starter clicking ideas:
- Is it the starter motor solenoid?

- Or the slave soldenoid located near the throttle body


- You can easily bypass the slave solenoid and apply batt power directly to the starter solenoid

- Using a good jumper wire, or if you're brave ... a screwdriver (LOL) you can actuate the starter solenoid to move the shift fork in the starter but BYPASS the copper disc inside the starter solenoid and apply full batt voltage to the starter... this can be a bit tricky but possible. Remember the old days where you would see an old tow truck driver get out and start his tow truck with a large screwdriver from the passenger side through the fender-well, thats what he was doing.

- Is one of your cylinders full of water / coolant thereby not allowing starter to turn it?

- Is something in your leg preventing engine from turning? Is your leg all the way down when starting?

- AN accessory causing this (not likely)

Definately elminiate any electrical causes before pulling anything apart.

 

[makonnen]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

that you had to put it in neutral to start

Slight correction here ... you have to put the transmission / drive in neutral to start. You know how to put the boat into throttle-only position right? See above post...

 

[mercs4mark]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

If your engine is running, then the parts in the drive are turning and unlikely to be seized, I hope you are running the engine on muffs with water so the exhaust parts are being cooled along with the engine, otherwise you will be creating other problems. Your problem stalling in gear is more than likely electrical.

 

[NHGuy]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

Welcome to the forum!
You are on the right track. The facts that it you knew enough to apply water to the drive and it runs are good. Is the motor oil clear?
Read up on how the shift cable is changed, it will clarify how it works. But for you, how it cuts the ignition is the thing you need to understand. The neutral safety switch is supposed to do what it has been doing, so you don't need to go into it.
When you could not turn it over manually was the shift in gear or neutral? I believe it was before you spun the starter and it may have been a bit stuck til the starter freed it.
I bet it's OK though, the previous owner could not have run it to the dealer if the drive was not working.
I'd go through the stickies at the top of the forum, then decide what is next.
If you have water nearby dunk the boat and run it in neutral to see if it leaks and if it cools itself.
Most folks decide to change the cooling water impeller, drive bellows, shift cable and bellows, and exhaust bellows as a starting point. While doing that, other stuff is accessible and gets addressed. Mainly to check the gimbal bearing and check engine position, which is done with an alignment tool.

 

[77GlastronMT]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

It would help to post boat year make and model, engine and leg year make and model for those of us who want to help but don't have access to serial numbers and information.

It's a '79 Glastron SSV 189 with a MCM 165 Engine and 165 Outdrive, all original as far as I can tell.

Here is some food-for-thought (some may not apply to your boat)

- Do you know how to put the shifter / throttle lever into "Throttle only" position?

Yes, I figured that one out after scratching my head a bit, I have the button.

- Is one of your cylinders full of water / coolant thereby not allowing starter to turn it?

Nope, don't think so, it runs great when in neutral.

- Is something in your leg preventing engine from turning? Is your leg all the way down when starting?

This is what my original thought was, and yes the drive is all the way down.



Thanks for the reply!!

 

[77GlastronMT]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

If your engine is running, then the parts in the drive are turning and unlikely to be seized, I hope you are running the engine on muffs with water so the exhaust parts are being cooled along with the engine, otherwise you will be creating other problems. Your problem stalling in gear is more than likely electrical.

Thanks for this post, I was scratching my head wondering about this as it didn't make sense. There are no abnormal noises coming from the drive when the engine is running in neutral, so I couldn't figure out why it would be jammed up. And yes I was using muffs but I plan on changing out the water pump soon!!

 

[77GlastronMT]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

Welcome to the forum!
You are on the right track. The facts that it you knew enough to apply water to the drive and it runs are good.

Thanks

Is the motor oil clear?

Honestly no, it's a little milky looking. I know that this is an indication of water intrusion but am hoping that it is from sitting all summer and when they (the dealership) had all the rain and had forgotten to pull the plug. I'm going to change the oil and filter and hope for the best. (I know I'm in denial but I have high hopes!)

Read up on how the shift cable is changed, it will clarify how it works. But for you, how it cuts the ignition is the thing you need to understand. The neutral safety switch is supposed to do what it has been doing, so you don't need to go into it.

I'm definitely going to check this out!!

When you could not turn it over manually was the shift in gear or neutral? I believe it was before you spun the starter and it may have been a bit stuck til the starter freed it.

It was in gear, haven't tried it in neutral, I figured since it started it was probably ok.

I bet it's OK though, the previous owner could not have run it to the dealer if the drive was not working.

My thoughts exactly!!

I'd go through the stickies at the top of the forum, then decide what is next.

:eagerness: Exactly what I'm going to do!!

If you have water nearby dunk the boat and run it in neutral to see if it leaks and if it cools itself.
Most folks decide to change the cooling water impeller, drive bellows, shift cable and bellows, and exhaust bellows as a starting point. While doing that, other stuff is accessible and gets addressed. Mainly to check the gimbal bearing and check engine position, which is done with an alignment tool.

I ran it on muffs for a while, the temp ran about 140, thought that looked ok. I'll definately be doing all those things, just kinda wanted to get on the water before summer is over. Up here winter comes pretty quickly after summer. Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it!!

 

[77GlastronMT]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

I reviewed the manual and couldn't find anything about a lower shift cable, I must not be looking in the right place. I've been watching a bunch of videos on You Tube, some guy pulled the drive off in less than 3 minutes, wow! Ok, I saw somewhere that if you have the controls in full forward, you can only spin the prop one way and if it's in full reverse you can only spin it the opposite way? Is this correct?? I tried it and in forward it only spins one way but in reverse it spins both ways. Any ideas?

 

[77GlastronMT]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

Ok I found the sticky about the interuptor, that explains what Bond-o was trying to tell me. How hard of a job is this to do (replace the lower cable)?

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

its all in here, http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/6/6covr3.pdf.
This should get you started. If you cannot get the shift shoes in a straight line , you have to remove the lower unit first, then the upper.

 

[77GlastronMT]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

Bt Doctur, I have the older model drive, I think it's a MC-1. I guess I'm going to have to go out and try and find it and see how hard it looks. I know the two boat shops are swamped, probably through the end of the summer. I would like to take this out at least once before summer is over.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

drain the unit, remove trim tab and remove the allen head bolt under it. remove the 2 nuts under the cavitation plate, remove the front nut, remove the side nuts.you cant remove them untill the drive comes down a bit. set aside.
remove the trim rams, remove the 6 nuts, pull rearward. Should come right off, if not report back for more ideas.
DO NOT PRY ANYTHING ANYWHERE

 

[achris]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

You might find this link and the videos in it useful

http://forums.iboats.com/mercruiser-i-o-inboard-engines-outdrives/couple-new-videos-590378.html

Chris....

 

[77GlastronMT]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

Thanks Chris, I'm going to check that out on my boat asap!

 

[77GlastronMT]

Re: New guy with problems (boat, not personal)

Are the shift cable adjustments the same for the Alpha drive as the MC-1 drive?