New motor Won't Start

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Syd, No I haven't given up on you. Gave you all I got. You said, "I am going to pull the front of the motor apart (pulleys, water pump, timing cover etc.) tommorow after work." I am and I think others are waiting for news from you.

 

[P.V.]

Re: New motor Won't Start

No compression is no compression!! Time to do a cylinder leak-down test of all "0" compresion cylinders!! How many are there?? You've done something incorrect..... Rebore?, rings? correct size pistons/rings? Don't bother with a vacuum guage, it won't tell you anything! No compression is a mechanical problem! valves are'nt closing correctly OR....... Anyway, Gotta get co0mpression back!

 

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

PV. you wrote, " Anyway, Gotta get co0mpression back!". ahhh you made me laugh!!

 

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

SAD MOE, let us know what you find. sl

 

[rattana]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Waiting to hear what you find with the front end

 

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Syd, do you still have your old camshaft laying around? you may want to use this for comparsion, (lobe config). If you haven't removed the front end yet, perhaps it's convienent to re-view and re-read the su-ggestions sent (above), perhaps you have missed somthing in a post. Trying to save you some un-necessary labor and expense. Also, have you re-searched your options as to the cam timing? you wrote, "was a Cloyes double roller and you had the option to advanced, retard or use factory specs". this way, if it comes to removing the front end, you'll know your option. good morning. sl

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Steve, don't you sleep!!!!!!<br /><br />I had the kids interfering with my engine project again. I was soccer dad yesterday so I din't get to pulling off the front of the motor. I will do it today and let you guys know.<br /><br />Thanks again for all the response. This really helps my motivation to fix this myself and not succumb to defeat!!!!!

 

[Northern Eclipse]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Syd, How are the timing marks lined up on timing gears are they bottom of cam gear to top of crank gear or are the top of cam gear to top of crank gear or bottom bottom or top top.

 

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

syd, enjoy the soccer dad. it'll be over before you realize it! sl

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Ok. For those of you following my situation, I pulled the timing cover off last night. The good news: I did put the timing chain and gear set on correctly. The bad news: I did put the timing chain and gear set on correctly.....so I still have not figured out my problem. I talked to a friend of mine last night who has a lot of experience building Chrysler engines but unfortunately he lives a 4 hour drive away and could not come to lend a hand. He said he rebuilt a 383 BB last year for his 69 Road Runner and he had the exact same problem I am having. He couldn't get the engine to fire. He tried to establish TDC and felt suction in the number one and thought he had the cam timed wrong so he pulled the front of the motor off. He found everything was in order. What he ultimately found out was suction was caused during the power stroke when the piston was moving down and both valves were closed. While on the phone he had me crank the motor. He said he could hear the engine and the starter was not turning over fast enough. I hooked up a battery charger and cranked it again with the compression gauge on #1. My compression went up to 60lbs. His opinion was my lack of compression was caused by rings not seated yet, minimal oil till oil pump got up to speed and lack rotation speed of the motor turning over by nothing other than the starter. His problem was traced to the carb. It was not rebuilt like the motor and he believed the needle and seat was dirty causing fuel to dump into the intake and cylinders as the fuel pump continued to push fuel into the carb while the motor was cranking. He changed the plugs and pinched off the fuel line using only the amount of fuel that was in the carb bowl. He thinks a contributing factor of the original situation was that the spark timing was way off initially causing him to turn the motor over several times and flooding out the cylinders and plugs. Than like me, he began looking at the wrong system causing the problem.<br /><br />Does this sound possible???<br /><br />I am going to put the front of the motor back together tonight and than start looking at the carb.<br /><br />Again sorry for the long post but if nothing else I hope this helps others who face similar problems and I can save them a whole lot of aggravation!!!!

 

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

The long post, not to worry as it's good info!<br />the grind on the new cam, were you able to compare it with the old cam? if not, turn the engine over by hand and follow the cylinder firing order by means of the rocker arms, to varify that this is a similar cam configuration. (firing order), you'll have to remove the rocker covers to follow them. Syd, make sure that the lifters have pumped up THEN adjust your rocker clearences, (unless they are adjustable, mechanical lifters/rocker arms). THIS IS IMPORTANT. if the valves open too much, or too little, at the wrong time, you won't have compression to fire. if it fires then you risk bent or broken valves. I don't believe in luck...so have fun! sl

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

I know when the timing gear and cam gear are installed that they should be Cam gear 6:00 and crank gear 12:00. Would the crank key then be at 6:00? because mine is around 5:00!!! Does this make scense???

 

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

syd, the PICTURE in my mercruiser manual shows the key @ 2 o'clock. when the timing marks are lined up on the gm SB. sl what does your manual show? sl

 

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

syd, is this your original crankshaft? how are you sealing the oil pan gasket. GM SB's can be a pain to seal. there is a 1 piece pan ga$ket available.

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

you aren't kidding! I had a hell of a time getting the front oil pan seal back on. Yes it is the original crank. My Seloc manual has 2 pictures of the timeing chain and sprockets but it is unclear where the crank key is. I got as far as I could before the rain. Hopefully I will get the rest buttoned up tonight if it doen't rain again.

 

[Northern Eclipse]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Gears at 06:00 to 12:00 sounds correct, Where in Toronto are you, I'm in Oakville. you mention that there is an advance and retard position, for the timing gear, if you positioned the gear advanced, where would the crank Key be then.. 02:00?

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

This thing has me beat!!!!!! I put it back together. Made sure the valve lash was not to tight, brought number one up to TDC, re-checked the rotor, re-checked the firing order.......still nothing!!!!!!

 

[P.V.]

Re: New motor Won't Start

What did you do about the "no coOmpression" problem????

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

I just cam e in form pulling all the plugs ...again!....and I checked the compression. At first I was getting 0 so I loosened off the rockers thinking they were keeping the valves open. My compression with the rockers backed completly off is around 35 - 50 cranking the motor with the starter. DOes this seem way to low? I realize my starter has been working pretty hard lately because I have been turning the engine over so much lately. I won't say it is cranking at full speed but it is not slow either. The heads on this motor are not original as mine were cracked. I got them form the shop that did all my machine work and they were suppose to be marin heads from the same year motor as mine. They were completely rebuilt including a 3 angle valve job, new guides, and springs. Could the heads be causing the compression problems? I personally put the bottom end together and I am checked all the ring clearences and made sure the rings were put in with the right side up so I am confident they are done right. THe heads on the other hand I didn't do. They were done and assembled for me.

 

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

DEAR SAD, what did you find out about the crank key being at the 5o'clock position? you asked about the compression being low at 35 - 50 psi? YES this is way under. <br />A lesson), squirt a 1/2 teaspoon of motor oil into a cylinder crank it over, w/o the spark plug. retest the compression. (the oil seals the rings). if it increases the rings AREN'T sealing, for whatever reason. If the compression stays the same this points to elsewhere. A s s u-n-me-ing that the head is not cracked, head gasket is good, the same compression, (after the oil is injected), points to the valves not sealing. But these are new heads...Then I assume that the valves are sealing, IF they are adjusted correctly, in the first place... before you ever cranked the motor over. I asked, you never said. Are these hyd lifters or mechanical lifters? Very important. these things BEND. then your compression is not there. And your new heads are candidates for another valve job or the scrap! Another Question, did you oil the rings upon insertion into the cylinder bores? or did someone else perform this part? just checking. you should have minimum 125 psi with the rings unseated and most likley more.<br />I asked, you never said, do you still have your old cam? you can varify that the firing order of the camshaft is the same. if you question this. don't let it beat you. let us know. If my post confuses you, let me know, I will try to clear it up. ...sl