New motor Won't Start

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

"My compression with the rockers backed completly off is around 35 - 50"<br /><br />at least one rocker has to move and open an intake valve to have comperession, otherwise your operating in a vaccuum....sl

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

I will try the oil trick today. They are hyds lifters. I assumse they are getting pumped up with oil because I have oil coming out the top of the head when I crank the motor. I did oil the rings and cylinders during installation.<br />I did not pull out the cam to check it with the old one. I do not have enough clearence to get the cam out. THis would require me to pull the motor again. I will check the compression again and let you know.<br /><br />thanks

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Tried the oil in the cylinders. Still no compression!Is it the heads?????

 

[P.V.]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Ok, le's assume you assembled the pistons/rings together and rebord the cylinders correctly??? Assuming the cam is indexed correctly with the crank (timing gears), now, remove all lifters and push rods. Make sure all push rods are not bent (roll them on the table). Put each lifter in a can of oil covering the top of the lifter, use a large phillips screwdrivewr (with out a sharp blunt end so as not to damage the oil hole where the push rod goes/sits in it) push the screwdriver "down" numerous times to get/bleed out any air inside the lifter. Now go back and reinstall 'em and starting with the #1 lifters, (leaving all the rest out/no pushrods installed AT ALL) adjust for proper valve lash useing only a wrench and your fingers. Roll over the engine to the next cylinder by turning the flywheel with a socket and not the starter. Reassemble and go fish!!BTW, Valve lash is adjusted by going to zero clearance and then, in 1/4 increments, down to the proper "depth". ie: 3/4 or 1 complete turn down from "zero"

 

[P.V.]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Additionally, if you do the above, you can recheck your coOpression after you're done and should have about 150 psi or so on each cylinder. If you don't....... you either have a mechanical block/piston/ring problem or a cylinder head/valve train problem. A cylinder leakdown test is now in order to determine which!! Also, after you are done, with the spark plugs out, watch the rocker arms work for each cyliner, in the proper order, intake and exhust, as you turn over the mtr! You are getting close! To what, we will see shortly!!! Hope this helps!

 

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

syd, <br />good morning, iam up to speed with your posts. About the camshaft, you don't have to pull out the camshaft to check it with the old one. The shape (lobes) are transfered into vertical motion via the lifter, (oh yeah, thats right). you'll be able to check/varify each compression stroke sequence if it is the same as your old cam or not. be sure to turn your engine over by hand and in the correct direction, the way the starter turns it over.<br />a note about what PV stated, if your going to use a phillips screwdriver it must be BLUNT or you WILL marr the surface of the lifter where it recieves the pushrod end, I would use the push rod itself, with oil inside of it. He is teaching you. Thats why he mentions removing and replacing one at a time, it's the BEST way. To add to this, you'll have to pull your intake to remove the lifters. If that is not an option, then meiticulously, one at a time, proceed by loosining all of the rocker arms and removing the pushrods. after checking a pushrod for truness, insert it onto the lifter, pump up the lifter w/oil. (Yes, they are probably full if you have oil at the top of the heads, but be sure! they will compress maybe, 4mm, if they are empty. if the I manifold is on, I don't think you'll be able to see the cam or the lobe/s. You MUST adjust on the low side of the lobe<br />!!!!!!! I cannot emphisise this enough!! Follow the rest of PV's instruction. and go fish!!<br />P.S. if the starter begins to fail. pull the starter and install new bushings and brushes. It' easy and inexpensive.

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Thnaks guys,<br /><br />I was first going to try and use my compresser to put some air into the cylinder throught the spark plug hole. I thought if I 30 - 40 psi into the cylinder I maybe able to hear if a lot of air is leaking past the valves with the rockers backed off.<br /><br />Btw, My manual doesn't really show a good picture of the crank key position duriong timing chain and gear installation. The diagram that came with the set kinda shows it though. Mine as I mentioned is in the 5:00 position. That seems to be right from what I can see in the diagram<br /><br />Look here Link

 

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

looked at the pic. the socket is in the way. however, there is an indication @ the 2 o'clock position. and an indication of somthing at the 9-10 o'clock position. NOW these two positions are relative ONLY to the gear. What is the key position on the crankshaft? (it can't be seen due to the socket in the picture, sorry)...sl<br />PS where are you comming up with 5 o'clock positioning?

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

steve, shoot me your email address.....dcarroll@osscomachine.com

 

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Syd, been thinking, +/-4 degrees, shouldn't keep this from firing. It's pointing to the top end/compressi0n. I'd continue with the valve adjustments and varifing the CAM firing order configuration, (you can do these at the same time), just keep track. get some rest....sl

 

[seahorse5]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Just shooting from the top of my head, and it's been a few years since I've rebuilt some of the inboard blocks, but is the new marine cam that you installed for a left-hand rotation or a right-hand rotation engine?<br /><br /> Did you change starters by chance?

 

[Wellcraft 89]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Syd ,I 've been following your post.<br />Were the piston and rings positioned correctly?<br />Trianglated on the piston?<br />were the heads chkd for warpage?<br /><br />Sorry your having all this trouble!<br /><br />Rich

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

The Cloyes timing chain set I bought has 3 timing marks and 3 crank key configurations. I changed the key postion to put the crank at 2:00 when the cam and crank marks are lined up. My compression is now 135 lbs. While i didn't quite have enough time to get it back together I am reasonably confident that it will fire up now that I actually have some compression.<br /><br />So what have I learned......Even though using the wrong timing mark relation between the cam and crank should only be a diff of + or - 4 deg, using the wrong key postion and the right timing mark can throw your mechanical timing out more than 90 deg and give you no compression in most cylinders. This will make it impossible to fire the motor. Hopefully I have not spoken to soon since although I now have compression I still haven'y actually heard the motor run!!!! <br /><br />I will keep you posted

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Its alive and running!!!!<br /><br />Thanks to all who posted and helped me get this thing going!!!

 

[llerrad]

Re: New motor Won't Start

I think I might go through withdrawl after this one like the O J Simpson trial........<br />Hope she give you many good hours on the water.

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: New motor Won't Start

C O N G R A D U L A T I O N S ! ! ! !

 

[Northern Eclipse]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Good stuff Sid, now you'll be boating for the August long weekend.. Where do you do your boating?

 

[steve n carol]

Re: New motor Won't Start

WHOOOHOOO! DON'T FORGET TO WINTERIZE!!

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Did I break any posting records with this one!<br /><br />It took 1 month less a day to figure this stupid thing out. SAhould taken one good Saturday only. Oh well....what do you expect from a back yard mechanic!<br /><br />My wife was beginning to lose faith though. She was getting down right angry with me for being so stuborn and not bringing it to someone. That's down right insulting! I told her I have every boating and marine expert in North America working on the problem !!!!heheehehe<br /><br />btw.... Northern E, I am up in Sharon (Newmarket) ON so I usually head into Lake Simcoe or tow up to Chooch.

 

[Sydmoe]

Re: New motor Won't Start

Did I break any posting records with this one!<br /><br />It took 1 month less a day to figure this stupid thing out. SAhould taken one good Saturday only. Oh well....what do you expect from a back yard mechanic!<br /><br />My wife was beginning to lose faith though. She was getting down right angry with me for being so stuborn and not bringing it to someone. That's down right insulting! I told her I have every boating and marine expert in North America working on the problem !!!!heheehehe<br /><br />btw.... Northern E, I am up in Sharon (Newmarket) ON so I usually head into Lake Simcoe or tow up to Chooch.