New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

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Mark Fletcher

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I got a 1961 Starcraft fiberglass boat yesterday and it has a 1965 650E for an engine. It's a 4 cylinder 2 stroke. The previous owner told me the coil was bad. I replaced the plugs and it has great spark so the coil is good. I thought that was the end of my problems, but it's not.


I got it to start, but cylinders 3 and 4 are not hitting. I believe it to be a fuel problem. The plugs are dry. I tried to do a compression test, but my tester pooped out on me. It won't hold pressure. I put it on all the cylinders, and the needle bounces all the way up to 90 psi, so I believe there to be compression in each cylinder. That's the best I can do for now.

Does anyone have any suggestions for me? I'm overwhelmed with this engine and don't really want to tear into it. I suspect a dirty carb, but it looks like quite a job to get to it. Any ideas where to get a service manual?

I'll check in tomorrow after work. Thanks for any and all help!!!
 
matt167

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

Oldmercs can get the service manual. Pretty sure the bottom carb fuels the #3 and #4 cylinders exclusivly, so check it for fuel flow, rebuild the fuel pumps, tap on the lower carb by the fuel inlet with a screw driver. You might have a stuck needle... If the carbs need to come off, you actually have to pull the magneto and it's drive off to get it unless it already has 'crazy carl' nuts holding the carbs on.. With the thinner 'crazy carl' nuts, you can remove the carbs without needing to remove the starter or magneto.
 
merc850

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

A quick way to check fuel in the carbs is to tilt the motor up and lock it in place then pump the primer bulb until fuel flows out of the front of the carbs. Sometimes the float is stuck and this might loosen it, at least you'll know if fuel is reaching the carbs.
 
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Mark Fletcher

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

Okay, thank you guys for the help and advise! I had to work late today and didn't get out there to work on it. I'll lock the engine up and squeeze the primer as suggested. I'll also tap on the bowl and try to free up the float needle. Any idea where to get a manual if I need to remove the carbs? I don't believe my engine has Crazy Carl nuts.
 
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Mark Fletcher

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

Pressed on time, but couldn't resist working on it a little.

I tilted the engine and squeezed the primer as suggested and fuel came out of the top carb only. I tapped and tapped and tapped on the lower carb to no avail. Gas refuses to squirt out. I didn't notice a "bowl" like on motorcycle carbs that I'm used to. Not sure how these are setup.

I removed the top portion that surrounds the flywheel and the front plate that bolts to it. I can at least see the carbs pretty well now. It started getting dark so I called it a day.

I seen the starter that I have to remove, but not sure what the magneto is unless that's what I'm calling a flywheel. I'll check in as soon as I'm able. Thanks so much for your help!
 
matt167

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

You have the starter on 1 side of the carbs, the magneto/ distributor is on the other. The entire magneto/ distributor needs to come off to get to the carb mounting bolts on that side... The stator is under the flywheel, which is the main part of the charging system.
 
matt167

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

Can't see the bottom 1. Top 1 won't work for some of your outboard. They went to Thunderbolt ignition in 1967, and the '69 manual will have the wrong ignition diagrams. Most of the rest will be usable tho. www.oldmercs.com has the manual you need, or Ebay is another good source. You need it for 1966 and prior outboards. Only get OEM service manuals. 1963 is the earliest manual you should get as that is the first year of the 650
 
matt167

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

Looks like a Clymer manual. It may tell you enough to get it running on all 4. You will probably need to get an OEM manual to get it tuned in well.
 
Chinewalker

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

Have you checked compression? Should be minimum of 100 psi and no more than 10% variance between high and low readings.

If you haven't already, I'd pull the magneto and clean all contacts and cap posts. Gap points at .008". Magneto is fairly easy to remove - four bolts and any related wiring or straps and it should drop right down. No way to misalign it as the shaft has a flat side.

Go ahead and buy the correct service manual. You can always resell it if you decide the motor is beyond your abilities to get going.
 
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Mark Fletcher

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

Okay thank you all!

I got it running today!!! It ended up being a stuck float. As soon as I pulled the cap off, I seen the float drop and I knew that was it. I put it all back together and it fired right up. It idles perfectly and revs fast and strong.

Tomorrow I'm planning on cleaning up the boat and giving it a good waxing. Hopefully we can try it out this weekend.

Thank so much for all of the help!
 
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Mark Fletcher

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

I do have another question now that I think about it. I can't figure out how to tilt the engine up without pulling the pin. I see a lever on the port side of the engine, but I can't get it to do anything. Is it just stuck or is there a trick to it? Thanks
 
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Mark Fletcher

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

Got home from work and cleaned up the boat with a good scrubbing and a buffer. It was looking pretty sweet, so I wanted to hear it run again.

When I started it, it was only running on two cylinders again. Man, I was bummed. I initially thought the float got stuck again, but it wasn't. I check all plugs for spark and they all had good spark. While running, I started pulling off plug wires. Cylinders one and two weren't firing. If I kept the plug wire an 1/8" inch away from the plug, both cylinders would run better. Is this an indication that I need new plug wires? If not, what else should I be looking at?

Also, On the port side of the engine, there are two threaded holes. One says "VENT" and the other isn't labeled. Should the unlabeled one have a screw? How do I check the oil in the lower unit and what type should I replace it with?

I'm really hoping to be able to try it out this weekend, but it isn't looking good at this point.
 
merc850

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

Lower-Unitsdriveshaft.jpgLower-Units0061.jpgLube-intervals.jpg
There's a screw at the bottom of the LU, remove this screw and the VENT one to drain the oil which should be waterfree
no milky color - to replace the lube buy a pump, a quart of gear oil and screw washers from a Mercury dealer. You thread the small end into the bottom screw and pump it in until it comes out the VENT, put the vent screw back in with a new washer then replace the lower screw. If there's water in the oil it's time to reseal the LU.
 
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Mark Fletcher

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

Okay, so my engine is missing the two screws. Water is inside there because there's no screws to keep it out. I'm going to have to find those screws, some gear oil (90 weight???) and maybe some plugs wires. Thank you so much!
 
Chinewalker

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

As mentioned previously, clean up the magneto. Corrosion inside may allow the plugs to fire in the open air, but the increased resistance of a high compression, oily, gassy environment can make it not spark as consistently.

To tilt the motor, shift the throttle/gear handle into forward. If the unit is properly assembled with the lockout cam positioned correctly, it should release the catch.
 
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Mark Fletcher

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Re: New to me boat-1965 650E 65hp Need some help :(

Thank you Chinewalker! I will clean up the magneto as suggested (although at this point I'm not sure what that is). I'll try the tilt thing too.

Is there points inside the distributer? If so should I look into that as well?
 
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