Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

Ok...acetone to clean first?...pain to thinner ok?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

Yep clean it all well with acetone then apply the PB

 

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

Got the center piece cut ..2 pieces grain different directions...got them coated with poly and set aside. I was worried about this 3 piece issue so I im gonna think it through here. I was thinking instead of pre laminating the plywood and pbing it all together and glassing over the top I might want to somehow tie it together better. If the pb bond between the 3 pieces breaks under the top layer of fiberglass it couls cause an issue no?
My idea was to cut 1 piece of 8 oz cloth that is the size of the entire transom all the way across. Then cut the 6 3/4in thick pieces of wood and coat them seperately in resin and cover each in 1 layer of 4oz cloth for waterproofing. Center the wide cloth on 1 of the center piece cutouts...soak just that center section with resign and laminate the other center piece on top. This gives me the 1.5inch center piece with 8oz of cloth between them and 3 feet of unsoaked cloth stick out on both sides. Pb the 2 side pieces (omly 3/4" at this point) to the transom skin. Then pb the 1.5" center piece to transom skin and wet out the dry cloth and glass it ove the 2 side pieces...then pb the 2 remaing 3/4" side pieces....the the normal tabbing and 1708 ove entire assembly

 

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

Damn that came out confusing....basically im thinking that I should have 1 solid piece of fiberglass going over the 3 secrions in between the 1st and second layer of plywood to try to make them 1 piece. This way im not completely relying on the pb mix in the joints. If the joints do eventually fail they will still have the middle layer of cloth as well as the top layer holding them together. Unless its overkill.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

No worries... We LOVE overkill!

Seriously, what you propose would probably be pretty strong, but it sounds like it might be complicated to lay up.

Back to your question about grinding, though... I ground all the old filler off until I got down to the woven. The old stuff didn't look all that uniform (as evidenced by voids, etc.), so I decided to get it all out and attach the transom to known-good fiberglass. It was a pain, and I don't know for sure that it was necessary... But didn't someone mention overkill?

Jim

 

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

Ok so I removed ALL of that light pink mat on the side that had the voids. The middle and "drivers side" (someone tell me the term for that so I dont sound like an idiot again looked fully laminated so I let them be. Im trying to find some past threads on these Bayliner 3 piece transoms and was having a tough time. I found some that were similar to mine. They had knee braces going from the center piece of the engine to the stringers.

The setup was the center transom was in between the 2 stringers (meaning that the stringers did not butt up against the transom). Judging by my crease line where the center and side pieces met up previously (the joints)...the stringers on mine are the same. They do NOT butt up against the front edge of the centerboard. The centerboard rests right on the inside edges of the 2 stringers. Crazy to think that in a transom that is already 3 pieces, they wouldn't put the stringers directly pushing against that center piece. They used a knee brace to join that centerboard with the stringer next to it. I don't want to change the design of the boat but I want to do this right. It seems like if I dont do this right..IT COULD FALL OFF! Especially being three pieces with no stringers in front of the piece where the motor is!

Couple of questions (if anyone knows about these transoms)...
Does the stringer come right back directly to the skin or does it butt up against the side pieces?

When I install my center board do I also install the side pieces and glass the whole assembly to the hull/stringers or do I glass my centerboard to the skin on either side first and then install my side pieces over the tabbing and THEN glass the whole piece in?

Do I cut my 2 side pieces so that they fit in direct contact to the center or is there spacing in between the pieces to get a better bond with pb? (Keep in mind that this was not originally a 1 piece transom so Im not sure the physics at play here)

Im just really confused as to what to do here. Theres obviously a lot of force to consider in this area...and Im not an engineer so I dont know the original setup as to how this was made. I dont want to screw this up and tie it all together the wrong way and have it all tear apart. I find it odd that the center piece of the transom would only be glassed to the 2 pieces on either side of it and th tabbed down into the bilge area...with the knee braces going to the stringers but thats what i got out of what i read so far. I am going to keep investigating but if ANYONE has seen or done this job on this model before your insight will be GREATLY APPRECIATED! THANK YOU!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

I'm sorry but you've got this Old Dumb Okie all discombobulated and corn-fused!!!! Could you post some kind of a rough drawing of what you are proposing??

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

Ok, first thing... the drivers side of the boat is called the starboard side and the passenger side is called the port side.

I think it would be a good idea to set the center piece of the transom first, PB it to the hull skin and clamp the snot out of it. Make nice fillets with the PB that oozes out with a spoon.

After the PB has cured tab the center piece in on the 2 sides and bottom, after that cures PB the 2 sides in and clamp the snot out of them too. Fillet the edges of the 2 sides at the sides and bottom... let cure.

Tab the side pieces in at the sides and bottom and then glass everything in with 2 layups of 1708.

As a revision on my first drawing, I suggest you bevel the 2 sides of you center piece on a 45* angle. This will give you a very thin fillet (almost none). Then when you 45* the 2 side pieces to match it'll lock the center piece in after they're installed. In other words the centerpiece will be "Keyed" in. Does this make sense to you?

 

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

I dont blame you...I confused myself! lol.

How do you post a drawing?

From what i read..Ive "learned" that bayliner built a 3 piece transom. The center was 1.5" ply and the 2 sides were 3/4". I believe the center board went in between the stringers. Its 24" wide...the stringers are 24" apart so the center part of the transom is in between the stringers. Im guessing the stringers butt up against the side pieces of the transom and the center part connects to the stringers via a knee brace. If Im right then this knee brace is the main connection point from the transom to the stringers. Im just really confused myself on how to do this correctly.
Its not possible (or within my ability) to do a 1 piece transom because of the sharp angles. I believe (judging by others bayliner transom threads) that these arent common in other boats. Theres no a whole lot out there on the subject so its tough to figure out. But I will illustrate if you can let me know how.

 

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

It does Jigngrub...Thanks for that drawing...I didnt see your post when I was replying to WOG. one question...I think it just might be the way you drew it but you show the center piece backside (where it attaches to the skin) to conform to the angle of the skin. Was that just the way it came out or do I need to plane the wood to go past the edges of the center flat part of the skin.

Im pretty sure you just extended it to show the 45 degrees but just checking

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

Yeah, I just extended the old drawing for something quick. Line the edges up with the flat part at the bend.



My "paint" skills aren't that great.

 

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

Trust me...it shows it perfect. It makes sense as well. I was thinking something along those lines (minus the 45 degree angle) to begin with. I just didn't know if that small 24" section tabbed directly to the skin would cause an issue....meaning would it pull off or cause some kind of weird bad stress under the side pieces because of the force of the motor thrust being sent down the tabbed area. Im guessing Im over-thinking the hell out of that!
Also it should act as one piece if its glassed in correctly...correct? Sometimes there's those weird forces of physics going on that the average Joe (meaning me) doesn't think of and I didnt want this to be one of those times after itching for 3 weeks haha. But I am pretty comfortable that that would be the best way to go. So, if theres no objections from the Iboats public...I think Ill "see how good my carpentry skills are" tomorrow. Up to date they havent been that good.....which is why I was a painter instead!...But Im sure my stubborness to finish this right will give me some motivation. Ill just stay at a holiday Inn Express tonight. Works on TV.

Im guessing Ill need to account for the angle of the skin too. so if the skin is a 10 degree angle from side to center...then my middle piece could be 45 and my side piece edge would be 35....or 55..or something like that! who knew repairing this old junker would be so educational....Hey thanks for your help and everyone else as well. Im turning in for the night...and IF I find the time tomorrow Ill update with some more pics..before the rain hits. Thanks again.

 

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

Hello again everyone,
so i BOUGHT A NEW BOAT!
I know your all probably thinking I gave up on the transom ..."very tempted"...but no. I found a good deal on a 1989 18' Wellcraft CC with a 1999 Johnson 115 2 stroke for $1700. Great deal from an older guy who gave up on boating. Had it "marina maintained" for 20 years. Its really a solid boat with rock solid floor and transom. Anyways back to my project.

So I got the center piece PB'd in...only one 3/4" thickness so far. It was not exactly flush against the skin since I ground the skin down a lot and it had some high spots so I spread a good amount of PB down to make sure it was fully laminated. The only problem is that I added some thickness to it. Im at 1.5" already with only 1 piece of 3/4" ply. Meaning I have 3/4" of outer skin and pb at the top edge of the transom. I measured the transom at 2" before tearing it up.

Is it OK to have this much PB at the top edge in between the wood and skin?

Also, can I bring the full thickness up to 2.5"?
Id like to put another 3/4" piece of ply on there but am not sure if that would be an issue. I'm guessing the full thickness would end up at 2.5" if I add the wood. I'm not experienced with hanging motors so I wasn't sure if those hooks need to fit over the transom or if they end up above it. Or maybe it depends on my boat...if so I can take measurements if needed. Id like to get this wrapped up ASAP and this is yet another question holding me up. Ill take pics in a little bit as soon as my phone charges. I was worried about the thickness of the PB. The problem was that there mustve been a high spot midway down the transom skin and I clamped the bottom of the wood down first, so it see-sawed towards the bottom and there was a little gap on top. I filled the gap with pb while everything was still wet and then I clamped the middle and top down until the PB squeezed out. Thats why the top edge has a thicker than expected layer of PB.

 

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

<a href="http://s817.photobucket.com/user/peteypablo25/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20131016_194956_zpsfd3f6555.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz94/peteypablo25/Mobile%20Uploads/20131016_194956_zpsfd3f6555.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 20131016_194956_zpsfd3f6555.jpg"/></a>

 

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

 

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

 

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

 

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

Thats a pine homeade clamp that you see on the back of transom ply..not part of transom

 

[Peteypablo25]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

Anyone have any input? Questions about the PB and transom thickness are above the pics.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Newbies first project...transom stringers and floor!

I don't know what motor you want to hang, but that would be 1 of the limiting factors for transom thickness. Getting the cap/splashwell to fit right would be too..

If you made thick, hairy PB it's got structural strength, so that shouldn't be overly concerning but w/ out the full 1.5" of glassed ply, I don't know that the PB would be strong enough to skip a layer of ply (to keep the transom from being too thick)...