No more foam (correction More Foam)

[sschefer]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

So do all fiberglass boats require some sort of wood or foam structural support? If my foam and the wood around the foam was there for structural support I would put it back. I'm no boat expert so input from any source is much appreciated.

They did this a lot to cut costs and reduce build time. The recreational boating industry was hot at the time and a lot of money was there for the asking if you could just get the boats out. Structurally, it's a very solid design and passed every USCG test they put them through. As was mentioned before, the G forces that a hull goes through are pretty incredible and a a non framed empty hull like yours would be without foam would, in my opinion, be a recipie for disaster.

 

[dockwrecker]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

My Carver 2155 doesn't use foam, I think it's a hull design issue and in your case, maybe mostly there for sound deadening. But, I'm not your hull designer nor is anyone else here. You really can't expect an expert opinion for your particular boat from anyone but Sea Ray whether the foam is structural and what an approved substitute would be. You need to ask THEM, not us.

 

[dgarner]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

They did this a lot to cut costs and reduce build time. The recreational boating industry was hot at the time and a lot of money was there for the asking if you could just get the boats out. Structurally, it's a very solid design and passed every USCG test they put them through. As was mentioned before, the G forces that a hull goes through are pretty incredible and a a non framed empty hull like yours would be without foam would, in my opinion, be a recipie for disaster.

I want a solid boat, that's going to last another 34 years. My worries isn't the insurance man. My worries is having a solid boat that isn't going to get rotted wood, and soaked foam again. If the foam was not there to get soaked with water than the wood would have been fine. I think!

 

[Lou C]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

In some hulls, the foam is structural, but even if it's not in that boat's design, the foam COULD SAVE YOUR LIFE ONE DAY....
look at this pic, remember the guys that anchored off the stern and the boat flipped, I bet the survivor in this pic, was pretty glad, the boat had foam!
When I re-did the deck in my 88 Four Winns, I asked FW if the foam was structural and they said it was, so I replaced it but I would have even if it wasn't. I'm not worrying about if the boat rots again, I put the deck down with 3M 4200, sealed all holes for seats, gelcoated it in non skid, got ride of the damn carpet, and thats as good as it gets.

 

[ilectric_toast]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

Not to give you any ideas because I do believe that the foam is structurally important, but if you want foam for flotation and structure is not what you are worried about you may want to look into polystyrene foam. It will not absorb water, but will not give you the structure advantages that the urethane pour able foam will.

 

[dgarner]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

I'll be putting everything back the exact same way as the factory did. After some thought I think it's best to keep things as Sea Ray designed them to be. So the foam is going back in my boat.

 

[rbh]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

Would'nt it be nice to just have some inflatable air bags instead of that foam stuff????

 

[dgarner]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

Would'nt it be nice to just have some inflatable air bags instead of that foam stuff????

Yeah, cars have air bags why not boats.

 

[Bondo]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

Would'nt it be nice to just have some inflatable air bags instead of that foam stuff????

Ayuh,... Many of the Go-fast water Rockets have only a truck tire tube stuffed under the bow...
They'll float enough to get a line onto 'em...

No way in 'ell, I'll ever put foam in Any hull....
Most of Our boats would float, just from the junk We carry in 'em...
It's PFDs that keep ya alive, not foamed, Rotten hulls...

 

[airdvr1227]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

The problem you have created is not so much whether to put the foam back in after you've removed it, but whether to believe the 'sky is falling' crowd. Never fails in these types of threads that some will come on here and start spouting about insurance regulations and loss of life. The same crowd you'll see wearing ear protection while they run their mowers, sending their kids to Montessori, and blaming teachers for their children's failings. Forgive them...they're little yellow caged birds that live in coalmines.

I say lose the foam. Sometimes ya just gotta say WTF.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

I'll be putting everything back the exact same way as the factory did. After some thought I think it's best to keep things as Sea Ray designed them to be. So the foam is going back in my boat.

Personally i think you made the right decision. If you haven't seen this thread friscoboater is doing a 22" Sea Ray - some good ideas. This is covers his foaming http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=454460&page=38 The entire thread is very comprehensive. The under deck sequences may give you some ideas. Very though documentation by frisco

 

[oops!]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

lol.....this one is way off the rails.

im suprised this has not been moved to the restoration section.....(dry dock)

ok.......here is what happens.

uscg rules state that any factory boat under 25 feet needs foam.......so they put it in.
after a little while .....the builders figgured out that foam had a lot of benefits...like anti crush....so.....they could use less fiberglass and resin....and fill the boat with foam, and it would be just as strong as the rest.
boston whaler is a great example........its all foam !
not only that.......if the hull did get punctured, the foam backing was like a seal....(a kid with his finger in the dyke) the foam would prevent the water rushing in.

now...the searays......were built so well....they did not need foam.....but the law required it....so in it went.

the law requires that if the boat is swamped with water....instead of sinking.....they want to give people somthing to hang on to that is floating...like an up side down hull....so the foam was the answer.

the law does not require that if the boat is rebuilt that it be added to the boat....this is your boat and you can do what ever you want with it.
as far as insurance.....well ....im not sure.....but in a 24 year old boat....if the foam is waterlogged....its goin down any how !

now.....having said all that.......two things remain....
if you dont want to foam it .....dont. .....bondo says that a good pfd is better than foam..and he is correct...so forget the foam.
now.....being a boat restorer......i have learned to like foam and the benifits to it.......so.....in the link in my sig....about one or two pages from the last.....is a way to foam your boat and not worry......detailed instructions on how to do it.
the boat was a srv 190.....now its a 25 footer. no foam

cheers
oops

 

[sschefer]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

Interesting the boat in question is 34 years old according to the OP. The level float law went into effect the same year and boats are typically sold as the next year model in the current year. However, the law does not apply to this boat unless Sea Ray was just doing it to convince buyers that they were a better boat. The law is the second thread. The first thread shows what the USCG will typically check for.

http://www.uscg.mil/d1/prevention/NavInfo/navinfo/documents/B-Boating_Safety.PDF

http://law.justia.com/cfr/title33/33-2.0.1.8.44.7.html

I'd put the foam back.

 

[Lou C]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

we ALL know that foam contributes to rot, but there are ways to minimize that. For one, think of the problem of bilsters in fiberglass hulls, that's a similar issue, because of constant exposure to moisture, and it is solved, by using an epoxy barrier coating, before bottom painting boats left in the water. There is no reason you could not use a coat of this on your new stringers and bulkheads, and then foam the boat. I still think that in this lawsuit happy society, if you rebuild something, and change something, and something bad happens, someone gets hurt, you know what follows next. I say built it the way it came but improve on it the best you can, most of these boats rotted because of other construction mistakes, like
1) carpet over a thin skim coat of 'glass, carpet has no place in a open boat, would you put carpet on your back deck, of course not
2) none of the holes drilled for seats, etc usually were sealed, and there is where the rot starts, foam or no foam, when I took my old deck out, the rot was in pattern of black spots, matching exactly the holes drilled for the pedestal seats. Foam did not cause that. The worst rot, was under the rear seats, where the carpet trapped moisture, the foam did not cause that, all that rot would have happened foam or no foam.

You correct these to faults, and that will result in less probability of rot...
but, it's a free country do what you want.....

 

[scott_maier]

Re: No more foam (correction More Foam)

Thought i'd add to the fray. Fiberglass doesn't float. I have a feeling this "little" aspect of boat building has been overlooked in this thread. Take a chunk of fiberglass and drop it in water and see what happens.I thought that was the main reason foam was put in smaller fiberglass boats. A fiberglass boat(without foam) with too much water in it is going to the bottom, a wooden boat on the other hand should float...right?

 

[jigngrub]

Re: No more foam

Re: No more foam

Ayuh,... Many of the Go-fast water Rockets have only a truck tire tube stuffed under the bow...
They'll float enough to get a line onto 'em...

No way in 'ell, I'll ever put foam in Any hull....
Most of Our boats would float, just from the junk We carry in 'em...
It's PFDs that keep ya alive, not foamed, Rotten hulls...

I'm pretty sure that hulls rot from neglect, improper maintenance/upkeep and storage, and not the foam that's in them.

The old beaded styrofoam was the culprit for soaking up water when the boat wasn't properly cared for, but with todays closed cell foams the boats are much better.

The level floatation law is there for a reason... and it's a good one!

 

[Bondo]

Re: No more foam (correction More Foam)

Fiberglass doesn't float.

Ayuh,.... Neither does Steel....

How many Foamed Battleships have ya ever seen,..??

 

[45Auto]

Re: No more foam (correction More Foam)

uscg rules state that any factory boat under 25 feet needs foam

Bad info there, oops. USCG regs say NOTHING about foam, and they only apply to boats of less than 20'. They only specify that some part of an I/O less than 20' in length must stick up for a specified time (usually the point of the bow is what you'll see), while a swamped outboard of less than 20' rated for more than 2HP must stay approximately level. Nothing says you must use foam.

http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/pdf/downloads/FLOTATION.pdf

How many Foamed Battleships have ya ever seen,..??

Aren't those long tubes sticking out of them just big pool noodles?

 

[scott_maier]

Re: No more foam (correction More Foam)

Ayuh,.... Neither does Steel....

How many Foamed Battleships have ya ever seen,..??

Yeah, but i think 3" diameter hole in the hull of a steel battle ship isn't gonna sink it right away, unlike a small fiberglass boat with a shorted bilge pump and no floatation.

 

[TerryMSU]

Re: No more foam (correction More Foam)

One other thought... If the boat goes down, you (or your estate) may be required to recover it due to environmental issues.

Personally, I think the foam may be a good idea for structure, but there are other options for floatation alone.

TerryMSU