No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

alden135

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California Students Ban Pledge of Allegiance
Leaders Do Not Want to Recite Loyalty to God or Government

LOS ANGELES (Nov. 11) - Student leaders at a California college have touched off a furor by banning the Pledge of Allegiance at their meetings, saying they see no reason to publicly swear loyalty to God and the U.S. government.


The move by Orange Coast College student trustees, the latest clash over patriotism and religion in American schools, has infuriated some of their classmates -- prompting one young woman to loudly recite the pledge in front of the board on Wednesday night in defiance of the rule.

"America is the one thing I'm passionate about and I can't let them take that away from me," 18-year-old political science major Christine Zoldos told Reuters.

"The fact that they have enough power to ban one of the most valued traditions in America is just horrible," Zoldos said, adding she would attend every board meeting to salute the flag.

The move was led by three recently elected student trustees, who ran for office wearing revolutionary-style berets and said they do not believe in publicly swearing an oath to the American flag and government at their school. One student trustee voted against the measure, which does not apply to other student groups or campus meetings.

The ban follows a 2002 ruling by a federal appeals court in San Francisco that said forcing school children to recite the pledge was unconstitutional because of the phrase "under God." The U.S. Supreme Court struck down the ruling on procedural grounds but left the door open for another challenge.

"That ('under God') part is sort of offensive to me," student trustee Jason Ball, who proposed the ban, told Reuters. "I am an atheist and a socialist, and if you know your history, you know that 'under God' was inserted during the McCarthy era and was directly designed to destroy my ideology."


Ball said the ban largely came about because the trustees didn't want to publicly vow loyalty to the American government before their meetings. "Loyalty ought to be something the government earns through performance, not through reciting a pledge," he said.

Martha Parham, a spokeswoman for the Coast Community College District, said her office had no standing on the student board and took no position on the flag salute ban.

"If their personal belief is that they don't want to say the Pledge of Allegiance, the district certainly isn't going to dictate what they do," she said.

More than 28,000 students attend the community college, located in conservative Orange County, California, south of Los Angeles.

Sophomore Chris Belanger, one of several students who attended the meeting to support keeping the pledge, waved an American flag and accused the board of "radical views and anti-Americanism."
 

12Footer

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

I'm afraid such stories are comonplace lately, Alden. Especially from the left coast.
 

crunch

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

Take it with a grain of salt.

Probably Jason Ball has discovered that being The Revolutionary on campus is sexy and it has upped his score percentage appreciably.... his own children when he has them will be the payback. 8)
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

his own children when he has them will be the payback.

He's probably gay, so he won't have to worry about that!;) d:)......JK
 

JasonJ

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

When I was down at the academy, we forced the staff to allow us to give the Pledge. They said no class had given the Pledge in years. That is truely sad. Children should give the Pledge in school. If they don't believe in God, then they can skip that part, but the Pledge is important to integrate patriotism into the children so they can be proud to be a part of this nation. National pride is sorely lacking right now, and all sides are to blame....
 

treedancer

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

When I was stationed at Camp Pendleton outside of Oceanside Ca.I took some college courses at MiraCosta College,in Oceanside ,if anyone would have dared to suggest something like that he would have had his axx kicked good and proper.:devil:
 

Kenneth Brown

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

Fork them people that deny my God and my Country her proper respect.
 

POINTER94

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

Loathing ones country is a way of life for some. It is conformity by non-conformity. Pathetic little minds.
 

rmmpe

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

If they dislike God and the Pledge, they always have the right to leave this country.

I would react violently to that kind of action and would probably try to help them leave this world.

Regardless, it is the parents' responsibility to instill proper values in their progeny. Unfortunately, many neglect to do so and what we're seeing today is the result of that dereliction.

My opinion only and NOT intended to spark a major controversy.
 

gonfishn

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

I remember many years ago that burning the American Flag was the in thing when alot of us here were in Nam.

I once had an accounter with a Flag burner while home on leave in 69 and it was not pretty. Judge said it was justafilable and let me go. He probably is back from Canada now and is in some Public Office position today.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

"If they dislike God and the Pledge, they always have the right to leave this country"

This sounds alot like the anti smoking thread....
You know, freedom of choice & all that......

If you don't like their dislike for God & the pledge, you are free to leave the country ;)...JK
 

xtraham

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

LISTEN HERE

"If you don't like their dislike for God & the pledge, you are free to leave the country"

I hope that statement was a joke,
the Flag, and Our Pledge represents all that gave their lives for our freedom (Heroes), the USA our soil and OUR God, not some place other than the USA,
so whatever country YOU decide to go to you can bet they have their own God and YOU won't have a choice..........
 

Plainsman

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

Haut said:
"If they dislike God and the Pledge, they always have the right to leave this country"

This sounds alot like the anti smoking thread....
You know, freedom of choice & all that......

If you don't like their dislike for God & the pledge, you are free to leave the country ;)...JK

I bet one of the kids is yours Haut. Hell, it was probablly your idea, the free thinking kind of guy you are. 8)
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

FTR, I agree with Jason J on this one.....
Leave the God part out though.....
When all of you "God" people figger out which one is the correct choice let me know....
The word God is too generic for me, when all of the religions of the world can get together & declare a "winner", I'll pay attention.....
As I have said before, religion is the bane of humanity, most certainly when it is used as a political motivator, or as a measure of one's patriotism (or lack thereof).....
You can worship your God all you want,
just don't shove him down my throat......
I will say this: a true patriot should have no problem reciting the words in the pledge.....
However, forcing someone to do it will never produce the desired effect.....
As some wise man from San Bernadino Co. said.....
It really is not high on my list of priorities, (paraphrase)...

It is good to see that there are counter protesters to this groups action....
Hopefully the outrage with the present conditon will get some of the student body off there duffs & vote these kids out of office......
That said, if they don't like Democracy they can leave or not , but they must live within it's (Democracy) rules if they are to stay........JK
 

xtraham

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

I am not a holy roller by any means, I don't go to church very often, I don't believe you have to go to church to live a moral life.......
I also used to think the same as haut until I heard this

if there is no God and you believe, you will die and be buried (the end), but what if there is a God and you do not believe where will you be?
so what/whom does it hurt to believe ? no one/nothing
but if there is an existent and you don't believe I feel for you.........
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

That's just hedging your bet.....
I think that God (if He exists) will judge & accept me for the good that I did for my fellow man in this life, not because I went to church or a mosque, or a synagogue...JK
 

POINTER94

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

The move was led by three recently elected student trustees, who ran for office wearing revolutionary-style berets and said they do not believe in publicly swearing an oath to the American flag and government at their school. One student trustee voted against the measure, which does not apply to other student groups or campus meetings.


This is multi-faceted issue. These little children are just pretending to be independant, while they appear to any thinking person to be the arrogant and insensitive little pr1cks their liberal masters intended. I suggest a two year trip to china, iran, solmolia without the protection of this country they so loath. They would crawl over broken glass naked to get back to this country and say the pledge. Little weaselly Jerks.
 

xtraham

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

POINTER94 said:
I suggest a two year trip to china, iran, solmolia without the protection of this country they so loath. They would crawl over broken glass naked to get back to this country and say the pledge. Little weaselly Jerks.

Amen...........
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

I agree they are weaselly jerks......
I would like to think that they are just being perverse....
But someone elected them.....
Time to show them what Democracy is about & get a recall started.......
I can't think of anything that would drive the point home more succinctly to all those involved......JK
 

POINTER94

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Re: No wonder the old folks are disgusted....

I got a better idea, lets put them in uniform and see if they would actually fight to defend this precious right to offend or if they would run away like little cowards. But I am sure they are too "Smart" to join. . . .

Where have I heard that recently? ? ? ?
 
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