Oil in Bilge

[jakwi]

Hi all, I discovered a new issue and I have a couple of questions for those with more experience.

I have a 2003 Bayliner 245 with a Mercruiser 357 Alpha 4V P/N 865103R88 S/N1G401632 . It is basically a bored out mercruiser reman of a 350.

I operate mostly in brackish water.

Anyway I had an oil line for the remote filter that had rubbed through and started leaking. I spliced it temporarily, which seemed to work fine, but I found I still had oil in the bilge. Thinking that it was my splice that wasn't 100% I replaced the line and changed the oil for the winter maintenance. I cleaned the bilge up perfectly, and thought I was ready to go. I ran it on muffs for 20 min, and everything seemed fine.

Last weekend I was up in the boat to check things and I noticed that I had oil in the bilge again, but this time it was fresh oil, not black, since I had just changed it. I got my hand under there as best that I could and found that the lowest part of the oil pan was really oily to the touch, as if I had splashed oil on the outside of it. The front higher part was greasy, but not nearly as oily. I felt around for soft spots as there is definitely some flaky rust coming from the pan. Everything felt solid, but I did have some big flakes come off in my hand.

So my first thought is that the oil pan is rusted through in some part but I couldn't find any holes, and the bilge wasn't full of oil, it just had some drip accumulation. If it was a car I'd probably chock it up to an oil leak "some where" and just check the oil and not worry to much about it, but given the potential for a catastrophic fail of the oil pan I'm more cautious with the boat. The second thought I had this morning is that maybe the rear main seal is leaking.

The motor is a reman from 2010, It runs great, and probably has no more than 100 hours on it. Is the rear man seal a possibility? Or is the rusted oil pan the most likely scenario?

It's pretty hard to get in and see the oil pan, especially when it is running so it will be hard to check.

Either way it seems that I need to pull the motor, and either change the pan, or rear man, or both. so on to the next question.

pulling the motor and reinstall. Is there any reason I can't do this on my own in a weekend? I have lots of experience on cars and trucks but I've never tried this with a boat.

I was thinking I could place a 16 ft 4x4 between two oak tree's in the back yard and use a chainfall to lift the engine. It should be 500 to 700 lbs, right?

I have the manual, but I'm looking for the experienced perspective, and the pitfalls.

Oh and lastly. Should I consider an aluminum aftermarket pan, or do they make a stainless pan. I'd rather not have to do this again if I can help it.

thanks for the input.

 

[achris]

Yes, sounds very much like the pan has rusted through. I've had that happen on a few engines. The only fix is to pull the engine. Easy job, just remember to pull the drive first... I have seen a few people think they can pull the engine forward off the yoke, just to ask a few months later why the coupler failed. :facepalm:

You're in a salty environment. An ali pan may not help that much. They aren't (that I know of) available in stainless. What I do is repair them. The rusty spot is almost always under the drain plug as it's the lowest point and the salt water drips directly from there. I usually just cut the rust out, along with the drain plug (boat engines drain better through the dipstick tube anyway), then weld a new section of steel in, then have the whole lot hot-dip galvanized, before priming and painting..

Chris........

 

[alldodge]

replaced the line

Check the fittings and adapter, might have loosened up

could place a 16 ft 4x4

There is no reason you can't do it, but I would use something stronger. A 4x4 can hold some weight but not that much when spanning 16 feet. I would suggest using Two 2x8 screwed together, 2x10 would even be better for added strength

 

[jakwi]

Thanks guys, I had read that the drive needs to come off first, but still thanks for mentioning it. I hadn't thought about galvanized I'll look to see if I can have that done locally.

So the rear main seal is probably ok then.

On reinstall do I need an alignment tool if I use the same engine mounts and don't remove them?

Great idea on the 2x10's I'll go that route.

Thanks again for the guidance

 

[jakwi]

I was looking for local galvanizing services and I came across this zinc coated oil pan, It looks right, but I'm not sure. Can I use an automotive style pan like this? or is there something different about the mercruiser pan?

Is there a particular year range or some other feature I should look for?

 

[Scott Danforth]

a 16' 4x4 wont be strong enough. however 3 2x10's will work

the weight of the engine will snap a 4x4 at that length.

pull the drive
disconnect electrical
disconnect the fuel
disconnect exhaust
undo mounts
pull motor

should take an hour to get the motor hanging

you will need an alignment bar when you go to re-install

you can get an aluminum pan. they do not make a stainless pan.

however good quality paint (not a rattle can) followed by a layer of fluid-film or boeshield works wonders.

However if it was me, i would first de-grease everything, then use a tracer die to see where its leaking from. doubt its the rear main as those issues pretty much went away with the 1-piece RMS back in 1986

however could be a leaking oil galley plug or leaking sender or a rusty pan.

along with the tracer die, use a bore-scope. they are about $8 for a smart phone. i have about 3 around the house.

 

[jakwi]

Scott, thanks for the rundown, that is very helpful.

Will a cheapo alignment bar from ebay or amazon be sufficient, or are they not good enough. I found one for $70

I had never even heard of boeshield, but I have a can on order now, thanks

I plan on getting down in there and cleaning everything up to attempt to find the source of the leak. Maybe like you said it is something unrelated to the pan, definitely worth looking first before pulling the motor out.

 

[alldodge]

Ebay bars are fine so long as the guy has sold a lot. Look at the reviews, there is only a couple which sold junk, most are just fine

 

[jakwi]

Ebay bars are fine so long as the guy has sold a lot. Look at the reviews, there is only a couple which sold junk, most are just fine

perfect, thanks

 

[JASinIL2006]

You might also try putting a smartphone on a selfie stick and record some video before pulling the engine. Might give you a better idea what you are up against.

 

[tank1949]

I suspect that your oil manifold and hoses start via an apparatus connected to where your oil filter would normally be found. Mine are. Mine also have a second oil manifold that the dip stick is connected and a hose for sucking out oil(oil change). The second manifold is pipe threaded to oil pan. If your set up is similar or close to mine, then you must consider the plumbing if you buy another oil pan to replace your rusted one. I recently pulled both my MCs to replace transom. I inspected, repainted and applied Fluid Film to my pans' bottoms. I looked for aluminum pans to replace mine, but I was fearful that their oil plugs openings were not as strong as my current ones. Please take the other responses seriously. Minimum sandwiched 2x10" on edge to lift motors via a 16' span. Maybe 3 2x8" sandwiched...

 

[jakwi]

Good idea on the camera stick, I have a gopro I could put down there too.

Tank1949, I'll have to take a good close look at the pan to make sure. I might just go ahead and repair it like Chris suggested. Although if I can get a Zinc oil pan for less than $40 that would probably be worth it, but only if it fits and works correctly.

I hear you on the 2x10's I've been reading up on building a diy gantry crane also. I also saw a youtube of a guy who put a engine hoist in a pickup truck bed and used that. ... The last thing I want to do is drop the engine through the hull . I'm still evaluating the best safe way to do it and minimize cost.

 

[Scott Danforth]

this borescope is about $5

https://www.amazon.com/Cimiva-Endoscope-Waterproof-Inspection-Smartphone/dp/B082G4L716/

this one is about $8

https://www.amazon.com/Artboy-Endoscope-Inspection-Adjustable-Smartphones/dp/B083KK54VX

 

[Lou C]

All good suggestions to which I'll add:
my old engine has the original pan, years ago I started spraying it with Corrosion X every few years. This has helped it to not rust out. When I did my top end overhaul 3 years ago I had the engine compartment wide open and was able to get down and really check it out and it looked suprisingly good, and this boat has been moored in salt water for 15 seasons 6 months out of the year.
If I was replacing a pan I would consider:
take your new painted pan and scuff up the surface with a Scotch bright pad
then brush on 2 good coats of Rustolium paint. I have used this on exhaust manifolds and elbows and it holds up even in a salt water environment.
after the paint thoroughly cures
coat with Corrosion X or similar.
then re-coat every couple of years...
and try to minimize water in the bilge....

 

[kenny nunez]

While you have the engine out will be a good time to also check the timing cover. They never got hardly any paint on them especially under the water pump and harmonic balancer. Plan on replacing it also.
The early 60s Mercruiser V8 engines had brass oil pans.

 

[Cobe Marine]

I was looking for local galvanizing services and I came across this zinc coated oil pan, It looks right, but I'm not sure. Can I use an automotive style pan like this? or is there something different about the mercruiser pan?

Is there a particular year range or some other feature I should look for?

Won't work for you. '80-'85 had the 2 piece rear seal block. You need the '86 and up pan for a 1 piece rear seal block.

 

[tank1949]

If you can Tig or have access to TIG welding, you might be able (where rust is through) to weld some thin wall SS plate over leaks. Pour acetone or gas into pan after cooling to check for leaks. Be sure welder clamps pan onto solid metal table to reduce chance for warping. SS will but you might be ok if oil pan is clamped. I coated mine with 2 part epoxy and fluid film.

 

[gr8shot]

I'd say thats pretty ambitious to plan to pull the motor and reinstall in a weekend. Perhaps if you really do spend the entire weekend on it. Maybe we're different, but I consider myself pretty darn handy as well, and I was overly tedious with removing the wire harness and labeling all the connections so I wasn't guessing when it's time to hook it all back up. And I had to remove a good bit of the interior at the back of the boat to get access to everything at the back of the motor. That was pretty time consuming as well. I wasn't in a time crunch to get mine out, but I don't think I could have gotten it out and in in just one weekend.

And weight wise, it depends how much you strip off the motor while it's in the boat. But with all the accessories and manifolds still on it, it's heave as heck. Not exactly sure on how much. But I'd guess each manifold is ~40 pounds, flywheel is ~30lbs, and all the accessories probably add another 50lbs. It's a heavy turd fully dressed, so plan appropriately! I'm lucky enough to currently have a service truck with a crane at my disposal, so actually physically getting the motor out was the easiest part of the whole process for me.

 

[jakwi]

Thanks guys lots of good ideas. I spent a lot of time looking at it this morning and I'm starting to think it was just leftover oil from when I changed the oil line. The line I changed was the feed line to the remote filter mount.

It was a PITA to change, and while I had good intentions I did make a mess. The part that confuses me is that the oil in the bilge looks like clean oil, not year old oil. That being said I cleaned it thoroughly this morning and then ran it for about 20 min at high idle. I didn't see any evidence of fresh oil during or after the run. I cleaned the whole area again. So we will see. To be clear, most of the liquid in the bilge is water. My cover is shot and a good rain always makes it's way in the bilge. I'd say no more than a 1/2 pint of actual oil was there.

The socket on the drain plug. Yeah, it's a bit redneck. I had a hard time getting a socket on it last year, or maybe two years ago when I changed the oil. I didn't have an oil extractor. So I figured I'd just do wit with a pan. Ok, ok I learned my lesson. I've never had a bigger mess to clean up. I might has well just shaved drained the oil without a pan. In any case I had to hammer the socket on the plug and I thought, screw that I'll just leave it there. It was a crappy socket anyway. It's a lot rustier than when I out it there.

So my hope is that I'm good to go for another year. I tried to find a rust hole, but I really didn't. The oil level in the motor was fine.

I am interested to hear what you guys think.

I could clean it with degreaser and try to paint it. Or spray it with boelube or corrosionx.

If I have tile next year I can take the time to build a proper gantry and order an oem replacement man. Paint it really well ahead of time. I could also plan on doing the gimbal bearing at the same time..

Gr8shot, you're probably right it's more than a weekend job. Which is why it would be great if I can do it in January when the boating season is slow.

Cobemarine, thanks for the info, that helps.

Tank, I'm not sure I'm up to welding it. My skills are limited to booger welds and convincing others I shouldn't have a welder... I kid, but really this is probably above my skill level.

Thanks again guys for all the input, and let me know what you think of the video.

 

[jakwi]

So given all the chaos I've had a little more time. I hope this finds you all safe and healthy.

The first two pictures show what it looked like originally. and the last is after cleaning and sanding. I tried to get them to show as visible here in the post, but for whatever reason I can only seem to show links.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Nz1...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ADhK7F31zLSRpDpIC6J_VODgM9GXms4m/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xUvbMy7ZYFxUSWDPoEeEcjPXG-L5P5da/view?usp=sharing

I drained the oil, and then washed it with soap and water and then sanded.


I think the leak is coming from that large pitted patch.

I cleaned up some other flaky rust areas, but they weren't wet with oil.


I'm going to replace the drain plug with a Fumoto F101N valve so that I can feed a hose out the drain plug and not struggle so much with oil changes.

https://www.fumotooildrainvalve.com/f101n.html

My plan for repair is

to use some POR15 metal prep
https://www.por15.com/POR-15-Metal-Prep

or Corroseal
http://www.corroseal.com/

I have both of these on hand. Do you guys think one is better than the other?

After that I was going to fill as much pitting as I can with JB weld. I have three packages
and then use POR15 over as much of the pan as possible.

It's pretty difficult to get to, I'm mostly working blind at the extent of my reach, so it won't be pretty.

My hope is that the this temp repair will work for the rest of this year. Then in January I'll pull the motor and replace the pan. Now having looked closely at the pan I'm not afraid of a catastrophic failure. At worst my patch will fail and it will continue dripping oil. Overall the pan is solid. I think it has just pitted through in one spot and so it drips.