OMC Upper deive questions

[metalwizard]

As a lot of you know I have been working on and old OMC electric shift.

1973 165 hp I/O electric shift.

GOt it all back together. got her in the water a couple times all seems good.

BUT.. (yeah always a but)

when it sits in the driveway with the drive up. I had several drops of oil from the drive.

with the drive lifted I thought it was coming from where the main output shaft is in the intermediate. I cleaned things all up.
pulled the drive off pulled the ball gear off, found the o-ring was nicked. so I replaced it. took he out again. got it home put the drive up. next morning I had a couple drips again.

So on closer inspection. I found it is coming from the top of the upper gearcase. Not sure if this is the right term but it looks as if it is where it pivots for the steering. with the drive up. its trickling down the front of the gearcase and down onto the ball gear. and out the bottom.

The leak is not of major issue to me, I am sure I can take that apart and reseal it. BUT (again with the BUTS) here is my question and what I a having major concernes about...

the oil dripping seems a little milkey. (not a TON just slightly) I did NOT put the upper together. So I am not 100% sure what fluid was used. my question. is there somewhere internally that could be leaking water into the gearcase? Or is that the normal color of the gearoil (yeah hard to answer without seeing it in person)

today I am going to drain the gearcase and really inspect the fluid. possibly open the Top piece off to see where the small amount of fluid is coming from.

I hear different stories as to what I should use to refill the upper. Could I get a "Bottom line" answer.. as to something that I can redily buy? (the manual I have is a little confusing. but it appears I need PLAIN OLE PREMIUM OMC GEARLUBE)

thanks again for the input. it is GREATLY appreciated. trying to find someone out here that really knows whats up with OMC is really tough. I trusted one guy and I REALLY am regretting it. I have had to redo most everything he did. (and yes he supposedly put in a new impeller) in case he is reading this... he is about 75 years old. he was an OMC tech when they were new. I think he USED to be the best... but unfortunately his age is starting to take that away from him.

 

[metalwizard]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

Seems I put thin in MErcrusier instead of OMC Sorry could a mod please move it to the correct location

 

[NW Redneck]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

What kind of steering do you have? Is it a rod that comes from the transom to the side of the upper gear case, or a steering gear that comes straight through the intermediate and another on the upper beside the ball gear (like mine)? I have a small leak at the steering gear on my upper, I might get 1-2 drips per day when it's hot out. It also lets some water in so I just change my upper lube every few trips. OMC Hi-Vis or any good gear lube will work fine for the upper. I just get whatever is cheapest and change it regularly and so far no problems. I throw a magnet in the old lube to see if there's any metal shavings and none so far so I don't see a problem with my system. When I do my next impeller change I'll get all new seals to put in too. Make sure you use OMC Premium Blend or type-c lube in the lower.

Another possibility is have you been greasing the fitting about 1/2 way up on the front of the drive under the plastic cap? If it is not full of grease it can also let in water into the gear case. A lot of people don't know there is a zerk fitting under there.

If you haven't seen it, I made a thread with a bunch of stringer info in it from my owners manual and shop manual. Thread here: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=501126

 

[metalwizard]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

Redneck.

Yep I did see your thread LOTS of good info. thanks for posting it.

My steering is like yours it has the gear that goes through the intermediate with the second gear by the ball gear.

I am not out there to see the Zerk fitting, But I know i have not greased anything like that. I am HOPING the guy the did the impeller greased what was needed.

if the grease helps seal it up. does that mean some of that grease can get into the oil? What I am saying is maybe that is why the semi milky color. (it really does not look like water in oil like in a engine) maybe it is just Grease. the guy that did it. used MILES of silicone on things... if he did the same thing with grease that may explain the milkey coloring. and I am sure Grease is not going to hurt things.

I am going to get some of the proper oil drain it out. pull that top piece off (the one the dip stick is in that connects to the exhaust housing) see if there is a seal issue there. then refill her and take it out again.

 

[metalwizard]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

The Zerk fitting you ar talking about where is it in the drawing of the upper in your thread (part number maybe?)

 

[NW Redneck]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

I think the grease is too thick to get past the seal and into the oil, but if it did it wouldn't be much and wouldn't hurt anything. With what you have found so far, I wouldn't ***-u-me that he did everything properly. Give that fitting a few pumps of grease to make sure. What did he use all the silicone on? There's only a few places that need sealant like on the water pump plate and on some bolt threads, etc. and that calls for permatex#2.

 

[metalwizard]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

LOL Yeah here is the long and short of the story.

I am an Ex Chevrolet and Jeep heavy line tech so I have mechanical skills. I had never seen a OMC oudrive before I bought this one. the intermediate housing was broken so there was no way to hold the worm gear for the tilt in. I was looking for a used drive with intermediate (top to bottom.) Took the old one apart and thought. gee I can figure this out BUT I don't 100% know what I am into and not sure exactly what parts I need..

SO I was steered to the old guy for help and for the CORRECT parts I needed. I asked him his input on what I need to fix and what I dont. He said. "leave it all with me and I'll put it together and back in the boat (I had the motor out to get the intermediate off) that way we know I got you all the parts you need. you can hook everything back up and get it running. he ONLY charged me for the parts. thanks god because his work was CRAPPY

So I leave it with him FOREVER. I get it back and there is silicone EVERYWHERE. EVERYWHERE. I found bolts loose stuff missing things not connected etc etc etc. I ended up walking away from it because I was a little pissed. and we got a freeze. I had not drained the motor. so i cracked the block.

Bought a used motor pulled everything and went through it. Cleaned it up fixed ALL SORTS of issues. BUT I never opened the upper gearbox up. that is one thing that looked good.

things he missed the bolts for the main gearshaft in the intermediate were loose to the point they were rubbing on the back of the ball gear. the side caps and bolts over the pivot (tilt) were stripped broken and not tightened etc. the tilt (which was the main thing I wanted the right parts for and fixed) was all messed up and did not work..

those are just examples. I fixed all thatstuff when it was apart plus a bunch of other things I found. and I am glad I did because if I had taken it out the way he gave it back to me.... I would have been SCREWED.

anyways I think in the long run I did OK. I got all the parts I needed. he didnt charge me for his CRAPPY work only for his parts. I ended up having to do all the work again. but that was my plan in the first place. LOL


bottom line I have gone through everything EXCEPT the upper and the impeller. he told me he put a new impeller in. I am sure he did. but how good a job he did? I won't know until I open that up. and I dont really want to. that is one thing that looks good all the bots were tight. it sounds really good. it does not overheat. and it seems to pump plenty of water. so I think he did good on that.

Maybe next year I will change the impeller and find out how he really did.

right now I just want to get it on the water while the weather is still good. BUT I didn't want to ruin the upper by running it with water getting in... thats why this thread.

sorry if I sound all over the place. but I think you get the idea of what I have been dealing with

 

[metalwizard]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

DANG... well I went outside to take a couple pics for you.... its worse than I thought.

middle pic is the spot on the ground (with dirt etc in it from the wind ) the spot is SMALL

left. I drained some fluid out.. OUCH its not a little milkey its a LOT milkey.. ARRRGH.

right is the top where the leak is... kind of does not matter now. I gotta take it all apart and see what is leaking that is more milkey than I am comfortable with....

 

[NW Redneck]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

Wow, sounds like you got a whole can of worms there! Seeing as you are mechanically experienced, you should be able to learn to do almost all this work yourself with a good manual and some help from iboats!

The grease fitting I mentioned is under part# 37-exhaust housing plug on the upper. The zerk itself is actually part of the lower gear case, part #45.

I would open up the drive and check the impeller anyway. It's not that hard to do, maybe 1 to 1 1/2 hrs to open, replace impeller and close. If the pump housing and plate/bolts are not properly sealed that can also let water in.

In that third pic, it's hard to tell if the oil is coming from the drive or the intermediate housing?

 

[metalwizard]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

Redneck.


I have the manual, but I am old it is hard to see to read LOL gotta get my magnifying glass out to read it all.

seams to me by what I can see the only place it really can let water in is the impeller area, so if I change the impeller my water problem SHOULD be gone (unless there is a crack or something else)

In pic 3 it is definitely NOT from the intermediate, That was my first impression, I pulled the drive off. and pulled the output/drive shaft. the flange with 4 holes and seal's o-ring was nicked so I replaced that. now everything inside is dry accept where fluid has dripped from above. I am confident its not from the intermediate.

I looked in "boat parts" here on Iboats. I see the impeller kit. but I did not see an O-ring/seal KIT for the upper. If they offer one that will be the way to go.


thanks so much for your input.

 

[wire2]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

The water passage from the impeller runs up the upper gear housing, with only a thin cast wall between them. If at one time, there was some water in the oil and it froze, there will be an outward crack, allowing pressurized water to enter the gear housing on the next run. A simple test is pull the drain plug of the upper, insert a fitting, blow 3-4 psi air pressure in and see if it holds. If not, and you take it apart, the crack will be quite visible.

 

[metalwizard]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

The water passage from the impeller runs up the upper gear housing, with only a thin cast wall between them. If at one time, there was some water in the oil and it froze, there will be an outward crack, allowing pressurized water to enter the gear housing on the next run. A simple test is pull the drain plug of the upper, insert a fitting, blow 3-4 psi air pressure in and see if it holds. If not, and you take it apart, the crack will be quite visible.

Sounds like a good plan.

Would the crack be on the housing UNDER the exhaust housing?

somewhere on the "cylindrical part of the GENERIC image above?

 

[wire2]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

Yes, that's the upper gear housing, it's where a freeze crack will occur. If you take it apart, the water passage will be on the right (standing behind the drive). Keep track of the shims, they give you proper gear lash.

 

[NW Redneck]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

I don't have the #s for it, but I have checked at our local Johnnyrude dealer and the seal kits are still available through them if you can't find one online.

 

[metalwizard]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

Well I just ordered a seal kit. I guess she comes off this weekend we will see what happens.

I hope it is just a sea. I am getting tired of putting money into this.

Any suggestions on what to look for? Anywhere else it might be leaking water INTO the drive?

 

[NW Redneck]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

Just make sure you follow the instructions in the manual and use the proper sealants where called for. There is a small rubber 'ring' spline seal that goes on the splines of the drive shaft that needs to be put on with the proper adhesive and left to dry before assembling. The pump housing and bolts need permatex #2 to seal them up. Make sure the drive shaft/pump shaft splines are well greased. Not gobs of grease, but a nice even coating all over.

There's a few other things that need a particular type of sealant and the proper procedures followed on re-assembly but just take your time and follow the manual and you'll be ok. I helped a friend do a re-seal on his stringer and between the two of us we had it done in an afternoon using an aftermarket manual and a couple of quick searches on iboats!

 

[metalwizard]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

I have another upper (the LONG type so I can't use it) I took it apart today as a dry run... pretty simple.. EXCEPT how the heck do you get the little metal cover off the ball gear nut?

I tried the punch about 1/8" from the edge could NOT get it to budge.

I don't HAVE to take that off, that seal is NOT leaking but I would like to because the ball gear on the LONg one is better (almost new) than the one on the short upper now.

whats nice. the impeller on this long one is BRAND SPANKING NEW not a BIT of wear on it that I can see. looks like it was JUST replaced before I bought it.. so I guess I have a spare if it turns out mine was not changed like it supposedly was.

 

[metalwizard]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

Seriously HOW DO YOU GET THAT SUCKER OFF. I have tried punches chisels hammering NOTHING will TOUCH the cap.

 

[wire2]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

Seriously HOW DO YOU GET THAT SUCKER OFF. I have tried punches chisels hammering NOTHING will TOUCH the cap.

Place a sharp scratch awl at 45? near the edge and tap it to pierce the cap, it's thin stainless. Once you have a hole, decrease the angle and keep tapping. The tip will force the cap off as it wedges in. The new cap in a seal kit is dished, so just put sealant at the edge, place it in the groove and tap it with a wood block to expand the circumference.
Keep in mind, you should change ball gears in a set. And once "broken in", mark them with paint so you can keep the mesh the same if you remove the leg.

 

[metalwizard]

Re: OMC Upper deive questions

Thats what I tried did you see the picture. that bad boy is stuck on their GOOD. oh well I drilled a hole in the middle gonna try the slide hammer later today.

I know they are supposed to be changed in sets. but the PAIR that I am runnning right now CANNOT be a matched set. so I figure it won't hurt.

thanks again