one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

[Caveman Charlie]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

Sometimes getting a DUI will scare the person into getting his act together. He will be required to attend alcohol classes and most likely AA meetings which he hasnt done before.Not to mention the big bucks it will cost him. Real alcoholics cant just quit on their on most of the time so I would not can him right away but verify he attends AA meetings and be given one last chance to never show up drunk or even with it on his breath again. If he does you have no other recourse but to can him. just my 2 cents worth.

Jeez, I had 2 glasses of beer last night out for dinner, good thing I didn't get picked up by the cops. You guys would want to fire me thinking I'm a no good drunk. I work everyday, show up and do my best for my employer. Going out and parting sometimes do not make you an alcolholic at that age, I am 55 and did my share of having a good time but I rarly drink more than 2 beers now. Have a talk with him but don't blow this out of proportion. There are alot of drunks out there but this doesn't show me that he's there.

People with addiction/abuse problem can change. Despite JB's, and some of the others black and white view of the situation. I have personal experience with several ex and current employees that have had drug and alcohol issues. Multiple DUI's, jail time the whole nine yards. Two current employees have been trouble free over three and five years respectively. Both were let go (fired) on prior occasions. Both were good employees when they were sober, or straight. Their addiction's were their down fall. Once their addictions were under control two "problem" employees became highly valued members of our team. Granted I've gone through other employees with addiction/abuse issues that (as far as I know) never overcame their problem. Retaining and reforming the person may be a crap-shoot at best. It just depends on the potential payback, and the odds of success.

I'm with these guys. Talk to him, tell him it was his last chance and he better straighten up. Each situation is different and you have to decide for yourself.

I have a alcoholic sleeping on my couch right now. He is working for us on the farm this fall. He stays sober all week and drives tractor. Then on the weekends he can not come to work because he is to drunk. For 10 bucks a hour before taxes this is all we can find for a worker. Only he can change himself. I can't change him as much as I'd like to. So, I know somewhat of what your going through.

And, yes, if you had two glasses of wine/beer at dinner you were legally drunk. I know people that got DWI's for stuff like that.

I love to drink myself. And doesn't JB like a glass of alcohol and a stogie once and awhile? You just have to not let it run your life for you. That's the difference. When drinking I stay where I am. Either I borrow a bed or, quite often if I know I'm going to be drinking with friends I take my travel trailer and sleep in that.

 

[achris]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

I'm with these guys. Talk to him, tell him it was his last chance and he better straighten up. Each situation is different and you have to decide for yourself.

I have a alcoholic sleeping on my couch right now. He is working for us on the farm this fall. He stays sober all week and drives tractor. Then on the weekends he can not come to work because he is to drunk. For 10 bucks a hour before taxes this is all we can find for a worker. Only he can change himself. I can't change him as much as I'd like to. So, I know somewhat of what your going through.

And, yes, if you had two glasses of wine/beer at dinner you were legally drunk. I know people that got DWI's for stuff like that.

I love to drink myself. And doesn't JB like a glass of alcohol and a stogie once and awhile? You just have to not let it run your life for you. That's the difference. When drinking I stay where I am. Either I borrow a bed or, quite often if I know I'm going to be drinking with friends I take my travel trailer and sleep in that.

I'm all for giving someone another chance, but this guy (OP's problem) has a history... 'nough said.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

Having spent 30 years in the construction industry, i understand your problem. 1st if you do not have a testing program rule in effect, you need to get one now. in it state that at your discretion, you can require any contractor/employee to submit testing for alcohol/drug consumption. you set up with one of the testing labs in you area, and you pay for the test. when you feel some one is drunk/high you can require that they go to the lab, for immediate test.

now days, with the alcohol, levels being so low, almost any of us could actually get a DUI. so i don't not thing just because a guy gets a DUI, is grounds for termination. especially if he is good at his job.

now if he shows up for work, and is determined intoxicated, you either have to council him, and require he get treatment, or termination.

you also need to have a policy, and stick to it, about unexcused sick days.

if you are using independent contractors, this needs to be amended into their contracts also.

a case in point, i had a retired firefighter, who was a great finish carpenter, he had been hire by my father, and my father really liked him, when i took over management, we keep him as he was a great craftsman, but he showed up smelling like alcohol every day. i had several talks with him, as to the new way things were being run.

one day, at lunch, i saw his truck coming out of a liquor store.

back on the job site, a crew of 8 men, including him, were working on a scaffold 30 ft off the ground, it was extremely hot, so we would take periodic water breaks. but he did not go to the water keg, he would go to his truck, after the second time watching this, i walked over and caught him drinking on the job.

He was immediately on the spot terminated. he ask why, i told him beside drinking of the job, he was endangering himself, and 7 other men.....

my dad was ok with the situation, after i explained what happened.

 

[Fishinmagician]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

A drunk is a drunk, EZ. They kill people.

No slack.

ditto, ive lost freinds and family members from these types, its starts as "i only had one glass of wine" to "i only had 1/2 a case" the sad thing is i know someone who has 5 DUI convictions and still drives, very poor legal system, booze is as bad if not worse than some drugs.

 

[Mark42]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

If you want to know the real story with his guy, talk to his wife. If he has ongoing issues with drinking, then she will most likely clue you in.

If the guy is a true alcoholic (physical addiction), then things do not look good for improvement. Historically, alcoholics usually run their life into the ground (aka hit bottom) before getting help. Cut him loose.

If they guy is abusing alcohol (self medication to deal with emotional or mental issues is common cause of alcohol abuse) then he needs to know what is acceptable and what is not. At 32, he knows, but you have to put it in front of him in writing and get his signature. One more infraction and he is out.

Having worked with alcoholics who drank on the job, I know the drinking periodically causes a problem at work. Arguments, missed meetings, trips to rehab, etc. Not worth the trouble.

 

[colobiker]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

This is a sticky subject.

I used to be in law enforcement. aside from that I have friends, bosses and co-workers busted for DUI's.. I worked on the "front lines" and its a sad, gut wrenching battle that ruins family's, live's and careers.

Years ago when I was a cop, the statistic was everybody who gets a DUI had driven on average 10 time's with out getting caught... additionally, with all the MADD, SADD, DADD.. BADD (boaters againsts drunk drivers.. just made that one up) its well documented about societies zero tolerance for driving under the influence of drugs or booze. you have to be pretty stupid these days to even risk it..

1st. if you get a DUI they yank your licence. (in colorado) and its the end of story. if your contractor needs a licence, he cant perform the job.. he's out..

2nd. if he calls in sick, for questionable reasons (you suspect because he was drunk or hung over) its his sick time.. I have called in sick for questionable reasons too.. mostly to go for a MC ride, boating.. and I diddnt want to burn a vacation day. (younger years, and I never get sick.. knock on wood)

3rd. while you may want to be a friend to this guy, thats admirable. but you cannot get involved in his personal issues. It will blur the line between employer and employee. you can help out by giving him information to help him kick it..... but the bottom line is.. his personal life is his life and if it doesnt break any of your business rules.. thats just the way it is. let the justice system deal with his mistakes.. you just focus on your business.. if he can perform the job and isnt drunk at work.. let it go.. if he's drunk at work.. let him go.. you cant fire him for what he does on his own time.. if he gets a dui and it doesnt affect his work.. and you fire him.. you've opend yourself up for a lawsuit..

if this is his 1st dui.. he most likely doesnt realize how much time this is going to take away from his job.. he will burn all his vacataion, all his sick time.. its going to wreck his insurance rates.. its going to wreck his life.. you dont realize how much you rely on a car until you cant drive... if its his 2nd or god for bid 3rd.. he's looking at manditory jail time (colorado) and losing his licence for up to 5 years.. and then having a breathalyzer installed on his car.
alot of people end up losing their jobs anyway because they have to take too much time away.. and it affects business.... bottom line.. you might have to let him go anyway because of all the classes he'll have to take, and time he'll miss from work... but you cant get mired down in his personal issues.. keep it strickly business and do what best for business.

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

LT,
You're a good man for sticking by them. I think EZBTR would benefit from your experiences if you could elaborate. It sounds like he wants to keep the employee.
And while I'm sure people can change, I have not witnessed this personally. This may be a shame as I have formed a negative opinion concerning this as a result of life's experiences and simply do not tolerate people with this type of issue.

While I'd like to claim some responsibility for the 2 individuals turn around, I do not believe it's warranted. Both of the employees were let go (fired) due to attendance and performance issues. After each found whatever reason to change they came back looking for employment. I just extended another opportunity, with strict conditions. For the two that changed I've had four or five others that as far as I know haven't. So there are no magic words or programs I know of to correct this situation. I do know if the guy sees the problem and accepts the fact a change is needed, it is possible in some cases.

 

[ToothDocNick]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

Let me get this straight. You have had to "shut him down" on the job before because his alcohol problem. He just now got caught by the police and could not come to work, and you are wondering what to do. I own a small business and each and every one of my employees understands (and it is in writing)that they represent our business, and conduct that is detrimental will lead to immediate dismissal. I am sure that your workers compensation policy would cancel you immediately if this has happend on the job. It seems to me that you have been nice enough to "overlook" and "teach" him the correct way to act.......all he did was say to heck with you and did it again. It will more than likely take him having a major incident to "wake up" to his problem. I believe people deserve second chances, but you have given him more than that already. He needs to earn any more beyond what he has already spent. Fire him, don't feel bad.....he put you in a bad situation, move on and hire someone who is better at what he does. I know I sounded like a mean old boss, but this year alone I have terminated 3 employees for attitudes, and work ethic. You tend to get the attention of the others as long as you stress the problems and hold them accountable. You might even find that he has done this even more than you know after you terminate him and the other employees come in and say thank you.

P.S. I was a pushover for a boss until I got the point where I spent more time pissing on fires than doing work. I hated going into the office to deal with it, and I was miserable. I sat down one evening with another professional who told me that a good handbook will make it all go away. You cannot give too many standards.....when you need to stick to it. Put it is writing and make them sign it......they understand it more if they sign it. Nobody will ever watch our for your business as good as you will.

 

[Jeff Walkowiak]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

Dui is public record,,get a copy of the arrest report find out what his blood alcohol level was and what he did to get pulled over, was it a check point and he was really just over the limit or was he blasted and bouncing off the walls drunk. Blood alcohol and the number of drinks varies from one person to another,, by their weight or if they ate before drinking etc,, a non drinker like myself could never get to a .08 b.a. I would be unconscious half way there as I have no tolerance for alcohol,, a drunk can't even function without a few drinks and usually has the shakes early in the morning if they have not been drinking.
As for your problem ,you should get some case laws on negligent retention and indifference where an employer was sued for the actions of their employees while the employee was acting as an agent of the employer.. you have the deep pockets so you have the bulls eye on your back.
Every situation is different,, get all the facts then ask him to tell you in detail what happened keeping in mind a drunk really won't have a good recollection of the facts,, we would video tape other police officers as we got them drunk and gave them field sobriety tests in d u i schools and they would swear they passed the tests until they watched themselves on video after they sobered up. as for only 2 drinks,, I seriously doubt it,, I heard that one forever.
What ever you do document it so you have your butt covered.

 

[240sx4u]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

May be wise to consult your other employees that he directly works with if they seem insightful. Ask around and try to figure out what they have seen without being too direct. They may pretty much tell you that they can't stand working with the guy.

 

[avenger79]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

32 yrs old and getting a DUI happens much more then you think. Teens and young 20 somethings tend to hide better. 30 somethings think they can have a drink or two and not get popped.
I would put him on a 3-5 day suspension. let him know you are very serious about the possibility of this being an issue.
I only have one concern here, you say questionable sick days. What's that? do you allow sick days? then if he calls in sick he is allowed. Doesn't matter what "sickness" he has. We used to joke here, because I very rarely get sick, yet I usually use a few of my sick days up. I get sunnyitis now and then. Just go out and blow off steam on my motorcycle. Sick days are allowed and no one questions it. I usually tell my boss in advance and make sure it won't put him in a bind. Not the same as hung over but I'd rather have him call in sick then operate anything hungover.
I would also make it very clear that operating any equipment while intoxicated or hungover or whatever is grounds for immediate dismissal without unemployment compensation. He is endangering himself, you, other employees, and your business. No second chances in that case.

 

[mickjetblue]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

There is only one person who can really help a problem drinker,
and that person is the problem drinker themself.

No program or other person can make that person want to help himself,
especially if he doesn't want to change for the better.

1, 2, 3 strikes, and you're out. You have to make the rules for your workplace
and its welfare, productivity, and norms of standards for behavior that are acceptable.

Good luck.

 

[Mark42]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

FWIW, I will share an experience at work related to drinking.

I came back to work after vacation to find a light labeled "test" blinking on my phone. Very annoying and distracting. My boss stops by and said lots of phones had that problem but most were fixed. So I put in a "ticket" to report the problem via our online system. I got email verification that the problem was fixed, but the light was still blinking. Sent in another ticket, got same result. I called the manager of telecom dept and he said he was told all phones were fixed. I told him not so, at least three other phones in my area still had blinking lights. He said it would be taken care of. A week goes by, light is still blinking. I submit another ticket along with a nasty gram, and then called the manager and told him to read the ticket. He appologized, and said he was told all phones were fixed, and when pressed, he said it would be fixed that day. About an hour later the tech and the telecom manager show up and the tech hooks up a laptop to the phone, runs a program and the light goes off. All the time his manager is standing there watching. I told him where other phones were that needed fixing. The tech went around to each and fixed them under the watchful eye of the manager.

Now I know why it took so long to get the phones fixed. This 30 somthing year old tech showed up stinking of alcohol. But he did not act drunk. When someone reeks of alcohol and acts fairly normal, that is a sure sign they are a full blown alcoholic. The problem with functioning alcoholics is they don't function all that well. I suspect this guy's days are numbered, as his boss did not look happy to follow him around and make sure the drinking tech did his job. The manager told me he was new to the company and had only been on the job 3 months. I wished him luck. He will need it with a tech like that.

I just shared that experience to let you know that things generally only get worse, not better. I was not impressed, infact I was really angered that this tech kept blowing off my tickets to fix my phone. I feel sorry that his boss has to deal with a marginal employee. The company I work for has very strick policy on drug and alcohol use on the job. The tech will probably be gone soon.

 

[wajajaja02]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

A lot has to do as to if driving is part of his job duties or not, if you can provide transportation for him for the next 6 months or year or wish to or not. Most likely he will have a attendance problem and that issue will resolve his continued employment with you with out your addressing this directly.

 

[mthieme]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

If you want to know the real story with his guy, talk to his wife. If he has ongoing issues with drinking, then she will most likely clue you in.

Maybe not.
There's a potential co-dependency issue.
And possibly just a plain dependent issue.

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

My workplace has a two "alcohol incidence" policy. Your second issue gets you fired. Sounds like this guy is on his fourth, at least. Not worth the aggravation in my opinion.

 

[MrBossman]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

Im 58 and drank on a regular basis from age 18 all the way to 48. Why I never became an alcoholic I will never know. I do know that even though I wasnt an alcoholic it still caused lots of trouble for me but never by luck got a DUI or fired. An true alcoholic has a cronic problem and if he doesnt stop (cold turkey) IT WILL CATCH UP TO HIM,,,,,,,,IT ALWAYS DOES. Sorry if I side tracked the topic.

 

[ezbtr]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

Well here's the scoop and as many facts as I know....
He is a contractor, I can fire him whenever(please no legal arguments, I know the contract well), it's at will on either side.
He HAS not shown up for months hungover(in a "normal" job no problem, but ours is dangerous at times) since the last time I talked to him about it, knows I will fire him on the spot if he ever shows up that way again, shown up 15 mins early since then, does good work.
He "says" he went out to dinner and had 2 glasses of wine(who knows), got pulled over at about 1 am on Thurs. (hmmmmm), took breathalyzer says didnt register drunk, so went to hospital w/ cops and took blood test, doesnt know results. I question the 1 a.m. pull over when he has to be at work by 0645-0700 the next a.m. Not real bright judgement.....and his judgement is what I brought up, cant tell him how to live his life, but can suggest....
He's single and dates..no wife or kids.
I really don't think he has a problem with booze, again his judgement sucks...
He's in debt a bit more than he makes in a year on straight time. Dad helped him out and he pays dad off......again, I see a HUGE judgement problem here...
I cant ding him for a DUI, but i sure as hell can if a no show at work.
He knows if any more no shows w/o calling me(sick days fine) and he's fired.
A shame I told him to let ANYTHING jeopardize your job.
He did get rid of the living w/ girlfriend, who liked to party DURING the week and get a sitter for kids - she was trying to(probably still is) set him up as the daddy, her kids(3 yr old) car seat still in back of car....hard to tell him to dump gf, just told him what is expected of him. He also lost a day of pay, that hurts.
So he knows if ever again, he's gone, no matter how much I like him and his work.

and btw, hell, I went to a bday dinner tonight and had ONE beer, even if restaurant is 1 mile away, and YES now I'm having a few glasses of wine......AT HOME...................I think that is key..
Thanks so much for all the replies, now my guy knows all is in his hands...hope he makes the right decisions...

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

First, ask yourself if this guy is truly a contractor. That does not mean whether or not you think he is a contractor, based on how your are paying him. You must review the IRS rules for what constitutes a contractor and what does not. If he is truly a contractor, get rid of him. Now. His problem is not your problem, and he can't do anything but tarnish your reputation with current and potential clients. He may also expose you to some serious liability issues.

If he does not meet the IRS standards, he is your employee whether you have been paying him on a 1099 basis or not. As such, there are a number of issues that you must face up to. One of those issues is that any accomodations that you make for him, may become things that you have to do for every other employee you have, should any of them develop similar problems. In this case, I strongly suggest that you invest a couple of hundred bucks in a one hour consulation with an employment attorney. Don't go to just any attorney - make sure that the firm specializes in employment law. You will get some advice in what to do in this case, and will learn a lot about such issues in general.

Understand, also, that letting him slide on this may not actually be something that is in his best interest. Sometimes the "tough love" approach is the best approach with respect to pushing someone towards accepting their own problem.

I can also speak directly in regard to the damage done by drunk drivers. When I was in my thirties, I was hit by one. He damn near killed me and put me in the hospital with a brain injury. He did kill a twenty seven year old woman. He was also the first one out of the hospital, because he had no serious injuries at all. This guy had a BAC level of just under .20, he had no license because of previous DUIs, he had no insurance, was cited for about 7 different things (including "death by auto"), and went to jail for three years - finally! To top things off, I was sued by the family of the woman, to the tune of a half a million dollars. This is the cold, hard reality of what drunk drivers do to other people.

Whatever you do, do not let yourself develop some sort of guilt trip that makes you feel bad if you don't "save" this guy from himself. As any recovered addict, or loved one of an addict will tell you, they do not break the addiction until they, themselves know that they must.

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: one of my guys got a DUI and missed work, thoughts?

Carphunter i understand what your going through. One of my guys under me has gone MIA for the last 3 weeks. Know one has heard from him. We hired another guy to replace him but still not telling anyone what hes up to has put me in a pickle with back logged work.