PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

[H20Rat]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

idiotic rule. it was adopted from a cruise ship class vessel, on your average 20' bowrider it makes absolutely no sense.

Lets look at failure modes of a 20' bowrider.
a) collision - nope, 30 seconds doesn't mean anything if you are unconscious or not in the boat anymore.
b) wake damage/overturn - see a)
c) ejection due to any other reason - see b)
d) swamped due to passing barge wake. - no barges, strict size limit already in place.
e) forgot to put plug in - ok, this MIGHT be the only reason. Usually you have far more than 30 seconds to figure out something is wrong if you left the plug out though. And the majority of the time you are still right by the dock/shore.

Unless someone actually has a valid use case where 30 seconds to get a lifejacket on would be important, its pretty much a law for income generation. The only possible case on this lake might be small tinny's... A boat within the size limit COULD potentially generate a big enough wake to swamp it.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Bigger boats, bigger wakes. Bigger fast boats, even bigger wakes. No way around it.

28 foot pontoon vs a 20 foot wakeboarding boat with 2000 pounds of water ballast... i'm not picking out some rare exotic examples to make a point, you can find common examples of those two boats on nearly any inland body of water. (in fact, where i boat those two categories probably cover 80% of all boats!)

I'm fairly sure the wakeboarding boat puts out a bigger wake!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

I like the speed limit rule of 40, especially on a small lake although I would happily trade that rule for no exhaust that exit above water.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Re: "Unless someone actually has a valid use case where 30 seconds to get a lifejacket on would be important..."

here's the deal. A protective law such as this isn't going to solve ALL the problems. It is only designed to solve SOME of the problems.

So if you're arguing that it won't help if you are ejected (true) or broadsided (maybe), you have not stated a valid reason opposing the law. Your argument is irrelevant. You may as well say, "because a PFD won't stop a stray bullet, I shouldn't have to wear one at all." The law that will help solve the ejection problem is one that requires a PFD to be on all the time.

What problem could it solve? A boating incident where being able to put one on in 30 seconds is the difference between being in the water safe or in the water drowning. Want a valid case? I saw one on Memorial Day: 25' boat sank in about 30 seconds--stern swamped. Another occurred one day in December when I was fishing; a boat's live well pump broke apart en route to fishing area; the boat, a 21' Grady, sank in about 30 seconds in 40* water when the boat stopped to fish.

Now a little about how laws work. The 30 second rule is not a new law. It is an interpretation, or a definition, of the existing law of "readily accessible." It is more fair (and keeping with good jurisprudence) to have a definition, than to leave it up to the individual LEO or judge--one might say still wrapped up in plastic is OK; another might say no moer than 15 seconds on and buckled. But when laws include a definition or standard, it must have a rational basis. Here, it is that in many (not all, that is not the test) incidents 30 seconds is enough time, but all the time, you have.

From my experience, that is correct. Remember, it's an average erring on the safe side; don't argue that because your boat will take 90 seconds to sink you get more time.

Therefore the "30 second" interpretation of "readily accessible" makes sense. It is an entirely different debate as to whether the underlying law (PFDs on board) is justified, just as it is a different debate about a "always on" rule, but neither of those debates has much do with the 30 second rule as applied to an existing law--whichis the question posed here.

 

[northernmerc]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

I can't see a problem with that rule. If someone can't get a lifejacket out and on in 30 seconds, they should be wearing it before they leave the dock.

Another rule should require anyone drinking alcohol on a boat or having a leak over the side to wear a lifejacket. How about a double or quadruple ticket for anyone caught drinking on a boat if they are not wearing a lifejacket?

Many, if not most, drownings related to boating are alcohol related. The correlation between drinking beer, peeing, and falling overboard is rather obvious. Most boaters that drown are found with their fly down.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Re: "Unless someone actually has a valid use case where 30 seconds to get a lifejacket on would be important..."

I have a question...are you a lawyer?

 

[mphy98]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

The real issue here is raising revenue in taxing times. This is just another way to get your dollars to a local government body.

I think 30 seconds can be done sometimes, but if you have elderly people you will have a problem. I take my 82 year old dad with us fishing all the time. He would or I would be fined every time. Kids should have them on when boat is in motion. What are the rules by you for when you are at drift or at anchor?

 

[Jakebob]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

I can't see a problem with that rule. If someone can't get a lifejacket out and on in 30 seconds, they should be wearing it before they leave the dock.

Yep. Count out 1-Mississippi to 30 in your head. It's a long time. No one who doesn't need to be wearing one constantly ( kids, elderly, disabled) should have any issue with getting one on in that time.

I don't like fines etc for this "test" though. Perhaps if they stopped you for another LEGIT reason and then went through the little test?

 

[H20Rat]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Re: "Unless someone actually has a valid use case where 30 seconds to get a lifejacket on would be important..."

here's the deal. A protective law such as this isn't going to solve ALL the problems. It is only designed to solve SOME of the problems.

it solves the minority of the problems, while ignoring the major ones. Kind of like making it a requirement for auto drivers to carry an escape glass-break hammer should they ever land a vehicle in water and remain conscious, but not having a seatbelt requirement, which will save you in nearly any accident. Both protective laws, but only the minor one chosen to have a legal requirement. (yeah, i know, the obvious conclusion would be to have life jackets required 100% of the time to solve the more likely safety issues, on a legal aspect i have no problem with that but on a personal level it would drive me nuts!)

I've taken some slack from local game wardens about having life jackets in enclosed compartments. I've had the same friendly debate with them, and although they didn't outright say it, they all agreed... They see very few boats that just sink randomly, injury/accidents are far more likely with people ending up outside the boat. (for the record I can get a life jacket out of the enclosed compartment and be wearing it in under 30 seconds!)

 

[OldePharte]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

Bubba - having that lake as "family friendly sounds like a decent idea, considering it's size.

The 30-second rule seems a little stiff. I do make sure that all of my passengers not only have their PFD handy, but also have it adjusted for them before we clear our No Wake buoys. My guess is that we could meet the 30-second rule.

The wave problem at Lake of the Ozarks isn't with the go-fast boats; it's from the infinite number of large cruisers who just like to plow down the lake. Apparently, another 60 foot Sunseeker Manhattan just delivered to the lake from the UK earlier this month. Since most of these behemoths can't see a hundred feet in front of them, we have to keep a sharp eye out for them coming up my stern.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

I lived in Missouri for a few years (stationed there multiple times ) and I left with one thing that has stuck with me.......

SHOW ME

I have read though this post and have not seen a rule? I looked on-line and the ONLY reference to the "30 second rule is this post on iboats" ......


Show me this rule in writing or link to it?

Trust by verify ............

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

I couldn't care less about the 30 second rule.... I can have one on and buckled in less than 5 seconds ANY time I am above deck and in 15 below.... As for the speed limit.... there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to need to be able to cross a lake more than 10 times in an hour.... I would see no problem limiting speed limits to 5 times a lake's length or 30 mph which ever is geater and not to exceed 60.... If you want to go faster than that find a MAJOR river or an ocean.... Honestly though it won't be effectively enforced.... loud exhaust and wake jumping jetskis have been illegal for years but they are daily problems..... many states have a 10 mph after dark speed limit but 70 mph bass boats at night aren't rare.... Now let me fire a warning shot across the bow of just one of these offenders and watch the law enforcement spring into action tho

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

I think 30 seconds can be done sometimes, but if you have elderly people you will have a problem. I take my 82 year old dad with us fishing all the time. He would or I would be fined every time.

I think you make a good argument for him having it on all the time.

I agree 100%....

auto inflate jackets are available under $100 now and are hardly noticable to wear.... pick up two and wear one yourself... then he won't be offended when you ask him to wear one.... something like "Dad, we aren't the spring chickens we used to be"

On my boat if you are under 18 or couldn't jump out at 30 mph and consider it fun you WILL wear a life jacket while under way.... If you are under 14 or if you are not a strong swimmer and fairly agile you WILL wear one while above deck.... anyone who doesn't like that can find someone else to ride with...

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

I lived in Missouri for a few years (stationed there multiple times ) and I left with one thing that has stuck with me.......

SHOW ME

I have read though this post and have not seen a rule? I looked on-line and the ONLY reference to the "30 second rule is this post on iboats" ......


Show me this rule in writing or link to it?

Trust by verify ............

http://www.maryville.govoffice2.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={5246A33B-1760-4E5D-BA45-2883C2C36115}

That took less than 30 secs......

 

[Mike Robinson]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

.....I think of it this way. Next time you're in your boat with your kids. Picture them standing in the middle of the boat (wearing their PFDs) looking overboard. Dad's floating face down, drowned, no life jacket. Who is taking care of your kids then?

I've seen a very effective ad on TV that shows a similar situation, 2 kids sitting in a boat wearing PFD's and looking forlornly to the water as they drift across the lake. No parent in sight...

It made me think.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

I think this 30second thing is crazy. A man should be able to take his family out to the lake in our country and enjoy himself without being harassed by the safety police. Everyone wants to regulate every aspect of our lives, and collect our money in the name of safety. I'll bet if the do-gooders got their hands on the stats on how many people have heart attacks on the toilet, or die slipping in the shower, we'd have the gustapo bursting in our bathrooms to make sure our showers have no-slip surfaces and everyone has at least 2 nitro pills on the counter beside the toilet.
No, it's a bad rule.
JMO,
JBJ

 

[backwater dawg]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

COME ON-----just another reason to pull everybody over under the "let me make boating safe for you"---when the REAL reason is revenue generation---just a good reason to check for DWI's and add to the county tax coffers--I make ALL children wear life jackets and have them close for the adults--you can't pull EVERYONE over ALL the time---the poll is 70 to 30 AGAINST the concept of this stupid "30 second rule"---hey cops---LEAVE ME ALONE---unless I'm doing something very wrong--Steve

 

[JoLin]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

The pertinent laws already exist:

1. CG-approved PFD in good condition
2. Readily accessible

So, enforce them- you'll get no argument from me. An inability to meet either criterion is justification for the authorities to levy a fine or force a boater back to the dock. The rest is BS to generate revenue. If a state is serious about boater safety, it institutes mandatory education and boat inspections.


My .02

 

[skargo]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

http://www.maryville.govoffice2.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={5246A33B-1760-4E5D-BA45-2883C2C36115}

That took less than 30 secs......

That link doesn't mention the 30 second thing at all.

 

[Tig]

Re: PDF (life jacket) - New 30 Second Rule on local lake

I wear my PFD, it's comfortable. That's my choice.
When I think about the people I have rescued over the years, they have mostly had life jackets on board that were easily accessible in under 30 seconds. They just needed someone to go get the life jacket and toss it to them.