(Possibly stupid) questions about motor for 12-foot aluminum boat, from a rookie...

[ondarvr]

Now I'm talking with a guy about a 1973 Johnson Seahorse 4 HP that was "rebuilt" by his uncle in 2007. Looks VERY nice and clean.

Problem is, the guy doesn't have a tank or a fuel line. Of course, he says it ran recently... but who knows.

So... how cheap would it have to be for you to buy a motor that you can't see run?



Thanks again!

These were very good motors, there were different versions, some had neutral and foward, others Forward neutral and reverse.

 

[JimS123]

Now I'm talking with a guy about a 1973 Johnson Seahorse 4 HP that was "rebuilt" by his uncle in 2007. Looks VERY nice and clean.

Problem is, the guy doesn't have a tank or a fuel line. Of course, he says it ran recently... but who knows.

So... how cheap would it have to be for you to buy a motor that you can't see run?



Thanks again!

To me "rebuilt" means the original owner(s) ran it hard and put it away wet, and then the next owner made an attempt at "rebuilding" it but now it doesn't work very well so he is selling it.

The FrankenRude before with the mismatched powerhead is another example of home crapsmanship. Or, then again it might be a good one serviced by a true mechanic.

I have 65 motors in my collection right now and most all are good runners. The ones that don't run I might have paid 5 bucks for. The 2 I just cited would be 20 dollar motors to me.

 

[oldboat1]

Like Ondarvr says, those are good basic motors (essentially, three or four decades of production!). When you inevitably get around to selling your rig for a bigger one, they are well known and popular. ('50s motors probably less so these days, and folks a little wary -- think maybe you are too). And like JS says, got to get clear about what uncle did to that motor. Seller may not know much about outboards, and may only be talking about some reconditioning -- or maybe uncle in fact tore the bejeebers out of it, skillfully or not. Your call.

and I'm still saying you could do a couple to start. It's almost fall, and there are bargains to be had. JS has 65 of them -- I'm only talking maybe two (or three).

BUT -- will get more heads turning with that '57, if that's of interest. (heads turning, not necessarily interested in giving you much money for it....) Buy low, have some fun, sell low.

 

[mofo83]

Thanks for all the input. Taking all your feedback into consideration, it sounds like a 6 HP Johnson/Evinrude really makes the most sense. (Not that I'd pass up a free Merc 7.5...)

And, seeing what's out there on Craigslist, I think waiting until I can increase my budget a bit is probably the smart move, because it seems like all the J/E 6HPs on CL fall into two categories and price ranges:

1. $150 or less: FrankenRudes, mystery-condition, untested, beat up or not running, located FAR away
2. $300 - $350: Nice condition, smooth running, seller will run for me, some come with gas cans & lines, some nearby

And, there's next to nothing in-between these price ranges.

So... for that extra $100 or $150, it seems like you get a LOT more.

Not that I won't keep my eyes open for a bargain...!

 

[64osby]

Just for fun go to your local scrap yard. See if there are any motors in one of the piles.

I have combined 2 junkers to make one nice runner for under $100.

Garage sales can also be a source, many times they are not put out, but asking if they have one might let you have a look at one in the back shed.

 

[mofo83]

I come from a long line of scrapyard scavengers, haha. Might just do that.

Of course, right after I post that thing about waiting and spending more, this comes up: http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/boa/5180341405.html

Guy says it runs great, says he will run it for me, and he lives pretty close. I wouldn't pay that price, but for $150 maybe?

Should I still wait for a newer (1960/70's) 6 horse instead of an older one like this? Doesn't seem like y'all think there's much of a difference, besides resale and looks?

 

[JimS123]

I come from a long line of scrapyard scavengers, haha. Might just do that.

Of course, right after I post that thing about waiting and spending more, this comes up: http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/boa/5180341405.html

Guy says it runs great, says he will run it for me, and he lives pretty close. I wouldn't pay that price, but for $150 maybe?

Should I still wait for a newer (1960/70's) 6 horse instead of an older one like this? Doesn't seem like y'all think there's much of a difference, besides resale and looks?

No, there is a big difference on that one....That's a 1955 5.5 HP with a pressure tank. In other words, it has no fuel pump. To be a reliable runner, the entire fuel tank needs to be rebuilt as well...i.e., new hoses and gaskets. That's about $40 in parts.

Now, don't get me wrong, I have a runner of the same vintage and we love to go cruising with the old woodies on boat show day, but its just a toy not my daily driver.

I have a couple mid 50's - they are 50 dollar motors where I live. The 5.5 I have came from a garage sale for $20, and it came with 3 pressure tanks. Pressure tanks go for $75 - $100 or so on EBay, but they can be had at garage sales for $5-$10. They all need the $40 rebuild kit.

From the pics that show the rust on the plate and the peeling paint it looks like a saltwater motor. In that case its a 20 dollar motor.

 

[64osby]

56 is about the cut off for good parts supply, 57 and up has very good parts available.

I would shy away from a 55 as a daily motor

 

[mofo83]

See, what would I do without this forum!? Thanks. I'll keep looking and saving up!

 

[mofo83]

Another good looking one (just tell me to shop posting if I'm unnecessarily flooding this thread... but y'all seem into the search!): http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/bpo/5178025233.html

Only problem is, seller doesn't have fuel lines, so no test unless I bring my own.

SO, since I'm 99% sure I'll be getting a Johnson/Evinrude at this point, I'm just gonna' go ahead and buy a tank and fuel lines (I know someone who can get me them at cost, anyways!) It'd be nice if I can get them before this one sells... we'll see... I don't think it will last long!

Another question: I've asked a few people to measure the shaft, and they come back with 17" or so. I thought short-shafts were 15"? Are these weird in-between shafts, are they just measuring wrong, or are short-shafts really 17"?

Thanks

 

[JimS123]

No problem flooding...keep the QQs coming.

Nobody knows how to measure, so don't fret the numbers. It's a short shaft.

Even if you buy a non-OMC you can switch the plug on a new tank for a couplabucks.

Give us the Serial number and we'll ID the year.

Be careful about "trying it out". If it hadn't been run in awhile I'd want to wake it up first by squirting a little oil in each cylinder and turn it over slowly by hand. You could also fry an impeller, but then again you will need a new one anyway.

 

[oldboat1]

never had a potential buyer show up with their own fuel tank, if that's the plan. not sure what to make of that.

think I would be real hesitant to let somebody fire up one of my motors with who-knows-what in a gas tank they were toting around. Conversely, think I would be hesitant to buy a motor from a seller who would allow that. not sure.

[edit. guess you mean fuel lines in the case of that particular seller. guess my choice would be to just check spark and compression, and learn what I could about how the thing was used -- or not used. also significant. Have a bunch of people who are just flipping garage sale finds, so not sure what's acceptable.]

 

[mofo83]

Thanks! I'll ask the guy for the serial number. If YouTube posters are to be trusted, it's roughly a 1961 or so, from what I can tell.

He doesn't seem like a flipper... says his grandpa bought it in the 60's and always took good care of it. But... it hasn't been run for a "couple of years"...

So, to add oil to each cylinder, do I just remove the plugs and put the oil in there? What sort of oil?

 

[60sboater]

The type is not critical. You just don't want dry cylinders for the rings to move in. 3in1 should do or maybe even WD-40 or similar.

 

[oldboat1]

model number. (or model and serial number). don't think it matters terribly what spray you use, but don't overdo it. and don't put the plugs back in and pull it over (it could fire). I would take a compression tester (screw in type), and a spark tester. Spray in the lube (can use a little fogging oil if you like) to protect the cylinders, as you wanted to do, then test for spark. Attach the tester away from the back of the cylinder (again, potential ignition). Pull each cylinder over three or four times testing for spark. Then test each for compression (comp. test will be affected a little -- improved with the lube remaining in there, but that's ok.) You are looking for compression roughly the same in each cylinder (w/i about 10%). Pull the motor over five or six times for the comp test until the needle stays steady (both plugs out). Some will recommend grounding the open plug wire or wires when cranking. I don't do that.

Anyway, that's what I would suggest, if more comfortable with some testing -- whether you run the motor or not. Maybe skip spark testing if the motor is run for you, and runs smoothly, However if running, can pull off plug wires individually to see if there is a change in rpms (maybe stalling). If no discernible change, the cylinder you are disconnecting isn't firing.

so you need a spark tester, compression tester, plug wrench, and a pair of leather gloves. and your gas line, I guess.

edit. Don't fire the motor without dunking the l.u. in water, or using muffs. Which reminds me, take along the muffs. AND, if running, do it without the hood so you can check temp (heel of hand on top of head -- the motor's head.... or get an infrared temp gun (fun, and you should have one anyway)). Shut it down if it's too hot to touch.

 

[mofo83]

Thanks for the advice. The same guy getting me the tank and lines can also get me those tools!

Here's a real noob question: maybe this would be obvious to me if staring at the engine, but what exactly is the process for "pulling each cylinder over?"

I also know to submerge the LU - as does the seller. He already said he would have a barrel of water ready to go.

 

[60sboater]

That just means using the recoil (pull type) starter to get the piston(s) moving for the desired tests. YT has vids that show these tests being performed.

 

[mofo83]

Ok, that's what I thought it meant, but I just wanted to be sure so I don't blow anything up, hehe. Thanks.

 

[MTboatguy]

never had a potential buyer show up with their own fuel tank, if that's the plan. not sure what to make of that.

I always take a 2 tanks with me when I go to look at a motor, I have one with a Mercury fitting and one with an Evinrude fitting, the reason I carry two, the current 9.8 Merc Model 110 that I have was switched to a Evinrude fitting sometime in the past.

 

[mofo83]

While waiting for my tank, fuel lines and tools to arrive, I stumbled upon another option:

I inquired about a 5.5 horse Johnson, but the price was too high; the owner said he had another motor he'd sell for $200 though, a newer 6 HP Evinrude (seen in pic). Only thing is, he said it "it doesn't pee water as well as the Johnson."

Now, if I'll be replacing the impeller anyways no matter what I end up buying (which is what y'all seem to recommend), is this a big issue? Are there other reasons it wouldn't be "peeing" as well, or is it almost always the impeller?

Thanks!