Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

why go tinned when you can go to a motor rewind shop and get nickel plated wire. I used that on a friends car and it wasnt even slightly warm when it blow the 500amp fuse.
best advice is to put the battery and amp where it doesnt get damp and half the battle is won before you start.

 

[Knot Waiting]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

What is your allowable voltage drop? If your roundtrip was 20' and you can tolerate 5% drop, you could use 4 gauge no problem. I take it your amp manufacturer is recommending this size?

Yeah MB Quart is the manufacturer and the recommend [maximum too] wire gauge is 4, hence the 2 gang 0-4 distribution block before the amp rack.

 

[Knot Waiting]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

why go tinned when you can go to a motor rewind shop and get nickel plated wire. I used that on a friends car and it wasnt even slightly warm when it blow the 500amp fuse.
best advice is to put the battery and amp where it doesnt get damp and half the battle is won before you start.

Got the dryness issue covered. Batteries are located in boxes in the bilge (under a hydraulic engine hatch) high above any drains and the amps are going to be in a dry storage divider ahead of the bilge behind the aft bench.

 

[jimbo_jwc]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

1200 watt is 100amps at 12VDC . He will Feel the Air comming from his drink if it comes in a bottle X 4 . I would buy un tinned welding wire and tin/solder before crimping connectors and seal /shrink tube to connecter . It has many fine wires and is very felixible for size comparison to normal wire . Rock On . If you need any help with this let me Know .I bought scrap wire from Locomotives rewire it was all 444 MCM all tined/Silver and got less because of Silver go Figure .Wife Bitched paid $975 for scrap with insulation laid on floor of barn could drive over for 1 1/2 years , Made machine to strip insulation 1250# went to 900# sold #2.75 and bought @ .75C and put insulation out with trash . What a investment .Buy the way he is talking Audio Not High voltage with drops at these lengths .Just high current heck with that much speaker the air comming from this should propell his boat if all pointing the same direction .

 

[Auger01]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

For a freshwater boat, I suppose tinned wire is not absoluetly necessary. If you seal the ends well you shouldnt have any problems. If it was mine, I would go with tinned wire, just because I do prefer the "belt and suspenders" approach.

Post some pictures when you can. What is your thinking on how long the four batteries will last while blasing the tunes?

 

[Don S]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

Zero gauge is to bring power to a 2400 watt twin amp set up and run 4 batteries together in parellel

If you use that, I pity anyone with in hearing range of it. And it's huge.

Everyone likes their own music, and shouldn't have to be forced to listen to yours.
If you don't plan on having your tunes loud enough for everyone on the lake, you don't need wiring that big.

Sound carries over the water big time.

 

[Knot Waiting]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

Post some pictures when you can. What is your thinking on how long the four batteries will last while blasing the tunes?

Ahhh, now there's the big mystery. I haven't got a clue. I dig the ole' hair metal and rock from the 80's while boating so depends on how much the subs are working I suppose. It's also why I am putting in the ACR so that if I kill em' I can still start the engine.

 

[Knot Waiting]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

If you use that, I pity anyone with in hearing range of it. And it's huge.

Everyone likes their own music, and shouldn't have to be forced to listen to yours.
If you don't plan on having your tunes loud enough for everyone on the lake, you don't need wiring that big.

Sound carries over the water big time.

Respect for other boaters is always a goal. We go to alot of "social watering holes" so there are usually several boats tied off and we trade who is playing tunes for the group to save batteries.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

Yeah MB Quart is the manufacturer and the recommend [maximum too] wire gauge is 4, hence the 2 gang 0-4 distribution block before the amp rack.

You do realize that 4 gauge is a LOT smaller than 0 gauge right?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

This chart is for mobile audio; industry standard stuff and VERY useful planning an install. The allowable voltage drop is already worked into the equation. Of course you could re-invent the wheel and do all the math again, but why?

I have seen this exact chart in many places and there are typically a few of them together representing the different % voltage drops. So which one is this one? It kinda looks like a 1% chart which is way overkill for an audio system.

 

[Knot Waiting]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

You do realize that 4 gauge is a LOT smaller than 0 gauge right?

Yes. Zero gauge is being run as a single lead into the distribution block which then splits the wire into two 4 gauge leads to feed the amps. 4 is the maximum gauge the amps terminals can accept. The bulk of the zero gauge is to add the extra batteries and install the ACR.

 

[jimbo_jwc]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

You do realize that 4 gauge is a LOT smaller than 0 gauge right?

Nope rated like shotguns

 

[jimbo_jwc]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

People like this need power in watts?Little Big Town - Pontoon - YouTube

If you need help hollar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSkFygPCTwE

 

[emilsr]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

I have seen this exact chart in many places and there are typically a few of them together representing the different % voltage drops. So which one is this one? It kinda looks like a 1% chart which is way overkill for an audio system.

And again I'm prompted to ask how many high end stereos you've installed.

To the OP; you're on the right track and sounds like you're doing the right things. At this point in time I'd try posing your questions in an audio forum, or to a shop that knows about such things. Bad advice is worse than no advice at all.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

And again I'm prompted to ask how many high end stereos you've installed.

No high end stereos...just high end military RADAR systems which have a way higher signal to noise ratio requirements and way higher duty cycle variations than any stereo. Now you know why I am asking why you need to tolerate 1% voltage drops.

As far as audio forums go, its amazing how little some of these guys actually know. Some don't even know basic ohms law. Shops are just as bad.

 

[jimbo_jwc]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

And again I'm prompted to ask how many high end stereos you've installed.

To the OP; you're on the right track and sounds like you're doing the right things. At this point in time I'd try posing your questions in an audio forum, or to a shop that knows about such things. Bad advice is worse than no advice at all.

All 4 of my kids put high wattage steros amps in thier cars some went to gold connectors on batts still have some of their speaker wire and its 2 conducter zip wire clear coated ribbed for positive 10 guage . Cant imanage what kind of spot flood light wattage I can use for , maybe electric snowblower /chain saw and its multipul fine strand .

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

Yes. Zero gauge is being run as a single lead into the distribution block which then splits the wire into two 4 gauge leads to feed the amps. 4 is the maximum gauge the amps terminals can accept. The bulk of the zero gauge is to add the extra batteries and install the ACR.

I somehow recall a similar conversation. Did you post on this many months ago?

Seems like 0 gauge is still overkill.

The reality of the situation is that any voltage drop you get is going to reduce the peak voltage that the DC-DC convertors in the amps are going to be able to put out. That in turn reduces the peak power that the amp will put out but will not affect the sound quality unless you are driving the amps into their nonlinear regions which I really doubt if you are listening to your stereo while actually on the boat

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

adding max power is simple but getting quality sound is another story. how are you planning to set up a bass box and how are you protecting the speaker cones from moisture. Are all the terminals gold plated etc etc. If a high end set up can cause spider cracks in the trunk lid of a car how will they affect fiberglass and the sound produced

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

Nope rated like shotguns

LOL...you don't think 4 gauge is smaller wire than 0?

 

[emilsr]

Re: Power Wire: Tinned vs. Bare Copper

No high end stereos...just high end military RADAR systems which have a way higher signal to noise ratio requirements and way higher duty cycle variations than any stereo. Now you know why I am asking why you need to tolerate 1% voltage drops.

As far as audio forums go, its amazing how little some of these guys actually know. Some don't even know basic ohms law. Shops are just as bad.

I've never actually been on an audio forum, but I suspect you're right. Scratch that.

Its not just about voltage drop. Its about getting clean power to the amp quickly. This can be a problem as the wires heat up under load, and from the heat of the engine. I don't know how all that works, you might with your background. All I can tell you for sure is 4awg wire isn't enough for long runs. The amps will get hot and clip or shut off. That said, we're talking about high loads over time. Hours. The sort of thing that would really **** Don off. . For "normal" use it probably wouldn't matter. They've mitigated that a bit with the newere "digital" amps, but I don't think that's what he's running.

My background is as a hobbyist. No more. I was into it at a young age, have a retail backgroud (including mobile audio), and have lots of friends who blow money on boat stereos. I'm not a sound engineer or anything like that so please take what I post with the proverbial grain of salt.