Powerplant swap Bertram 20

[arfaname]

Gday all,

I recently bought a Bertram 20 with a VP AQ170 inline 6. The motor is fresh (had it apart) and the leg is pretty good (except unis) but she is just a slug. It is battling to hold plane in moderate seas and every decent waves sets her back too much. I have a possible engine swap available in an AQ260 and VP290 with power tilt and trim. The swap will cost me less than $5000 AUS. I know plenty of Berty 20 have had 350's put into them so im OK for room.

My question is how much work is involved in the following:

1: making the VP290 drive fit the hole where the VP270 leg currently bolts in?

2: Alinging the VP260 to the VP290?

3: Is there anything I'm missing here?


It would be a real nice boat with the 350 and I love her to bits. Is this swap feasible and whats involved?


Thanks

Sean
Melbourne Australia.

 

[Don S]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

1: making the VP290 drive fit the hole where the VP270 leg currently bolts in?

You would have to recut the hole. Since the cutout is larger on the 290 transom shield, it shouldn't be a problem. You will have to buy a paper template for the 290 drive to get the hole located properly.
Motor mount pads will have to be made to fit a V8, but shouldn't be a big deal.

2: Alinging the VP260 to the VP290?

There are 3 tabs on the engine flywheel cover and corrisponding tabs on the transom shield. You just get them so they are equally spaced. No alignment bars like the newer models.

3: Is there anything I'm missing here?

Just a lot of work, and of coures you will run into a few "Gottcha's" along the way, but it's all fairly straight forward.
I would also recommend putting new bearings in the flywheel cover BEFORE you install it on the engine. If they are bad, you would have to pull the engine back out to replace it.
I do have some installation manuals, what engine will you be installing?

 

[arfaname]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

Your a marvel Don and thanks heaps for your input and advice. The engine will be the AQ260 and the leg a VP290. I will be replacing the flywheel cover bearing/s without question. I only want this one going in once. Im tired of pulling the engine on this boat.

One thing that has me stumped is how I work out how to position the new template on the transom. Where do I take measurements from and what am I measuring?


Thanks again Don...








Sean

 

[Bondo]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

One thing that has me stumped is how I work out how to position the new template on the transom. Where do I take measurements from and what am I measuring?

Ayuh,... I donno if the template has the crankshaft centerline marked or Not,...
You need to determine where the Cav-plate on the drive is, so it can be placed At, or ever so slightly above the Keel line...

On a Merc. it's 8" above the propshaft centerline,... Volvo, I donno...

 

[captmello]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

I have seen a copy of the template for a 270/280 drive that Don has posted previously. It has all the info printed on the template.

I'm not sure if Don has the pdf copy of the template for the 290 in downloadable form.

Keep us posted on your project.

 

[Don S]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

I do have a template for the 290. You will need to buy the paper one to put on the transom to get the holes right for the studs. Here is the link to it.
http://www.4shared.com/file/148411558/1f114691/DPE_Transom_cutout_template.html

Here is a link to a diesel installation manual. Don't have one for gas, but the transom shield and mounting info is the same.
http://www.4shared.com/file/148407830/57438c1a/Install_Manual_Aquamatic_Engines.html

Here is the service manual that covers the outdrive.
http://www.4shared.com/file/48536730/fa3b3311/280_to_DP-C_Drive_manual.html

And the service manual for the 260 engine.
http://www.4shared.com/file/89797331/c4296b6f/AQ200_to_260_Service_Manual.html

 

[arfaname]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

You blokes are bloody terrific. Thanks heaps for a great help. Well I've progressed a little in purchasing the engine and leg tonight. In the coming weeks I will make progress and give you fellas plenty of pics etc along the way. Im very excited about this and cant wait to turn my already nice Berty into a hell of a lot of fun.

 

[Paul Ryan]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

Great looking boat! I just spent 16 months in Brisbane on bussines. It was great to see how much AU enjoy's boating. I just couldn't belive all the tinnie's. They were every where. Little one BIG one's. In Brisbane, it was like 2 to 1 tin to glass.

What your talking about doing to your's will give a great return and is very doable. Like Capt and Don were talking about, take your time to set the template and everything else will fall right in place.

Don't hesitate to stop n and ask questions. Doing a search has yielded me answer after answer of questions I have had in the past.

Cheers mate n keep us updated!

 

[Bondo]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

Ayuh,.... Sweet lookin' hull....

 

[arfaname]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

Thanks very much fellas. Yeah the tin boat vs fiberglass is a funny one. Its very political here. They are making bigger and bigger tinnys all the time and everybody has thier opinion of course in which material makes the better hull. I personally wont go past fiberglass for a sea boat but I have a 4m tinny for the freshwater stuff.

What can I say? I just love the H2o

 

[arfaname]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

Well my powerplant has turned up and the swap starts tomorrow. Now Ive checked out the template etc but from everything i can see i believe the transom shields are the same. I am wondering if at some point somebody has swapped the 290 leg onto a 270/280 transom shield. From the picture below, what do you guys think? Whats the combo? is it standard?

 

[triman]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

Hmm, a 350 into the fabulous Bertie 20. That should really get up and move!!! I'd also be interested in how the swap goes.

 

[captmello]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

Well my powerplant has turned up and the swap starts tomorrow. Now Ive checked out the template etc but from everything i can see i believe the transom shields are the same. I am wondering if at some point somebody has swapped the 290 leg onto a 270/280 transom shield. From the picture below, what do you guys think? Whats the combo? is it standard?

Looks good! I can't see swaping the 270 outdrive onto the 290 transum shield. My understranding is that the 290 shield is about the same, perhaps with two more holes to drill out. The PDF template Don provided earier in the thread my not be correct for your 290. Does the template you bought look the same? This may be easier than you thought.

What about the motor mounts? Have you got that figured out yet? Make sure you check/replace the bearings in the flywheel cover before putting everything together.

Keep the pics and the updates coming!!.

 

[Don S]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

That is a 280 transom shield for sure, and yes, it's possible the drive was replaced, or probably just the upper gear box. The lower looks like a 280 short shaft from here.
You will have to keep an eye out for a DP lower with a 1.98 gear ratio for your drive.
I had the same engine and drive with a DP in my 27' Bayliner, and it went 35 mph at WOT, and would get on plane in just a few seconds.

 

[Jeepster04]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

Would love to see some pictures of the fly wheel(The volvo Engine) to see what type of setup it has instead of a gimbel bearing. Thats the exact engine we have and Ive never seen it with the outdrive off(and probably never will).

Hope the swap goes good!

 

[captmello]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

That is a 280 transom shield for sure, and yes, it's possible the drive was replaced, or probably just the upper gear box. The lower looks like a 280 short shaft from here.
You will have to keep an eye out for a DP lower with a 1.98 gear ratio for your drive.
I had the same engine and drive with a DP in my 27' Bayliner, and it went 35 mph at WOT, and would get on plane in just a few seconds.

Interesting. Did you think you were getting a 290 with power trim? Sounds like you got a 280 with a 290 upper. I think that is what a 285 outdrive is/was.

Still a good drive, no power trim. Also I would make sure someone didn't just bolt on the other upper gear box, it would have to have been reshimmed to the intermediate.

 

[Paul Ryan]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

I agree...The bottom looks like a 280 short shaft...Hard to tell but the paint between the upper in lower looks a little off...Meaning the swap, all the guys have been talking about, is true. Having a 290 upper means you can put a DP on the bottom. That would be KILLER!!!..arfaname??? I'm wanting some stickers for my 270 leg and love the looks of the side "290 sticker". Could you take a pic of the sticker on the back cover and post it...I can get a local graphic guy to copy it and put 270 on mine. The font and color looks great.

 

[arfaname]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

Thanks for the replies gents. I guess working backwards here goes,

Paul, Mate no problem getting a couple of good pics for you once its all back together. Right now I just need to concentrate on getting her right but sure thing in a couple of weeks.

Capt mello, yeah unfortunatly I did think I was getting power trim however in hinesight its not the worst outcome as i dont have to change the transom shield. Perhaps that may be an upgrade later on or even look for a 280T shield. In the meantime i think a set of trim tabs may be helpful and a valuable addition. I think your right on your conclusion of the outdrive. the bearings in the housing have been replaced but seriously, I can not find a spot of corosion on the thing. A couple of spots of rust here and there but I really doubt its ever seen salt. No, neither of the templates match my shield but appear the same template.


Don, yep I reckon your right after inspection today. As for the DP lower, I would dearly love it at the right price. I will keep out a keen eye.

Jeepster04, i will have a dig around and try to find the pics of the flywheel.


Now for an update.

Well the AQ170 is out and the AQ260 in for its trial fit. Everything is going smoothly so far. I have had to remove the two bulkhead supports left and right to gain room. The exhausts are proving difficult as I cant find a Y piece for the leg and brand new they are $1400 . I am investigating having one fabricated tomorrow. Engine mounts are a bit difficult and once again may need fabricating. I am dropping into a place in the morning to see if they have something from thier ski boat range. Cant be that hard surely. The alternator has to be moved and high mounted and the mechanical fuel pump removed and replaced with electric. The only problem here is how I overcome the safety issue of the pump running on if the engine stops and the pressure switch fails. ????? I dont want the bilge full of fuel.


Anyhow, heres the progress pics so far.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

Sean, do you know of Mil at MILLWELD (in Bayswater). He is a legend in the SS fabrication world. He can make you anything our of SS or alloy.

Was the reefrunna salvageable?

 

[captmello]

Re: Powerplant swap Bertram 20

I agree, It all looks very clean.

No power trim, but you've gotten by without it this long, right?

Why switch to an electric fuel pump? It looks like there is room to put a mechanical back in.

Some would look at the missing Y pipe as an opportunity to install thru hull exhaust. Fabricating one will be quite a challenge if even possible.

Did it come with power steering?