Problems with first rebuild

Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
19
Re: Problems with first rebuild

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Sorry, I cleaned up the fuel PUMP. Yes, you are correct. I meant to write pump , not filter. I will order one asap.
I am planning on running fully synthetic 25-40 after 20 hours break in. I am using a 25-40 synthetic blend for break in. Is this ok? is there a better oil for break in? maybe something cheap that I can replace often as check to see it's fuel content.

Compression test- I did not have the throttle wide open. It was at idle. All other plugs were out. I made a special ground wire for coil out of a spark plug wire. (I pulled off the coil wire that went from coil to center of distributor) New wire went from coil to ground on block.
I did a dry test. I did not squirt any oil in spark plug holes yet and recheck. I will. Also I used a free tester from auto zone. I am going to see if they have a different set for next test. Maybe damaged/ not accurate?

Spark plugs were black-wet- and smelled like gas

exhaust smells like fuel with some white smoke (working on a video)


Let me put all my cards on the table. I got this boat and motor on a trade. The motor (block,cam,crank,pistons,lifters and heads)were rebuilt by a professional shop. This unit was sealed in plastic, on a small steel stand. All the other components for engine were off motor. I was told that he paid for new parts in block. I have no paper work or info on parts used. I only saw lifters from top and don't know if they are flat or roller. (my manual says they should be flat but that doesn't mean they are.) I guess i really need to know this so any suggestions on how to pull one out to see? I did find two papers rubber banded to lifters. One said not to use sand paper on any parts in motor or it would void warranty. The other says ....Caution! Valves must be readjusted at engine operating temperatures. I have not touched them yet. I was expecting to hear a knock from them on first start but did not hear anything.

I put on; oil deflector, oil pump, oil pan. Intake manifold, new carb, Thermostat housing, (I put a new 160 degree thermostat in) Distributor (had HEI-changed to EST),valve covers, Harmonic balancer, pulley wheels. Water pump, alternator, power steering pump, fuel filter assembly, New flywheel,coupling,bell housing, new starter, solinoid, motor mounts, exhaust manifolds, all new hoses, I used old fuel pump. I will replace fuel pump with whole new assembly. All parts were cleaned best I could and some painted-wife wanted some blue to match the boat

I am glad I took a day this week and ran a natural gas line to the garage for my new heater. Looks like i"m going to be out there a lot.
 
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
19
Re: Problems with first rebuild

I forgot to thank all of you for your reply's. Thank you !! I also put on a remote oil filter.
 

NHGuy

Captain
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May 21, 2009
Messages
3,631
Re: Problems with first rebuild

Well if it's a flat tappet system without rollers you might have worn off the lobes of the cam. Pull the intake manifold and look. if there are no lifter guides and the lifters are round you have regular flat tappets. AND the synthetic oil probably does not have the right amount of zinc (ZDDP) additive for a break in.
So, check for shrapnel in the oil. If there's any in there, just stop, get the motor cleaned out and the cam & lifters replaced.
If there are no metal shavings good. Did you do a run of 30 minute over 2000 rpms?
Then try to figure out the fueling & smoking if it's still there.
 
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NHGuy

Captain
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May 21, 2009
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Re: Problems with first rebuild

Well if it's a flat tappet system without rollers you probably killed the cam. Pull the intake manifold and look. if there are no lifter guides and the lifters are round you have regular flat tappets. AND the synthetic oil probably does not have the right amount of zinc (ZDDP) additive for a break in.
So, check for shrapnel in the oil. If there's any in there, just stop, get the motor cleaned out and the cam & lifters replaced.
Then try to figure out the fueling & smoking if it's still there.
 

wrench 3

Commander
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Aug 12, 2012
Messages
2,108
Re: Problems with first rebuild

Before you start tearing the engine apart, I'd just like to say that your compression sounds reasonable for gas washed cylinder walls and a cold engine. Also you can check for cam ware by measuring the travel at the top of the push rods while turning the engine by hand.
Running a fresh engine with contaminated oil is definitely cause for concern, but I'd get it running again before tearing it down.
 
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
19
Re: Problems with first rebuild

I have a photo of motor without manifold on, but the insert image is not working with my imac. I am hoping to get photo up so someone can verify flat or tappet. Any suggestions on an alternative way to get photo up? thank you
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
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Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,095
Re: Problems with first rebuild

I have a photo of motor without manifold on, but the insert image is not working with my imac. I am hoping to get photo up so someone can verify flat or tappet. Any suggestions on an alternative way to get photo up? thank you

Ayuh,.... Post yer images at photobucket or the like,...

Then type
B] Insert the url to yer image in here, then [B]
....

It'll post yer image in yer post,...
Btw, don't bold the tags, I just did it to hi-light what's needed,..

Just make Sure the images are 480x640 or so,...
 
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Walt T

Lieutenant
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Mar 16, 2002
Messages
1,369
Re: Problems with first rebuild

I seriously doubt the cam has been worn that badly. You would have bearing issues before that. As the man said, do basic diagnosis first, check simple and obvious stuff first. Follow a logical diagnostic flow chart which you can download pretty much all over. It does no good to jump from one system to the next, then back, never really being thorough, and then tear down an engine for no real good reason. even with the relatively low compression readings I doubt you need a cam. We can offer suggestions based on experience but we can't reach through these screens and do hands on. Boy wouldn't that revolutionize the porn industry?
anyway, white smoke is oil burning or water vapor. Black smoke is over fuel. Dumping fuel in the crankcase is a bad fuel pump. Synthetic oil will stand up to contamination much better than standard oil and is fine for start up. It can hold particles in suspension much better than standard oil. Automobile manufacturers have been using synthetic oil in their new cars for years now.
 

Fishermark

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Messages
5,617
Re: Problems with first rebuild

The rings also need a "load" on the engine for them to set properly. Synthetic oil is not good for break in. Some basic 30W oil is what you want. Even non detergent is good for break in.
 

NHGuy

Captain
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May 21, 2009
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Re: Problems with first rebuild

That's a little ray of sunshine, good!
 

bonzoscott

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 26, 2008
Messages
745
Re: Can you verify roller or flat tappet lifters from this photo?

Re: Can you verify roller or flat tappet lifters from this photo?

Pull one out and look. I would think the break in would be the same either way - varied loads and speed first 10-15 hours.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Re: Can you verify roller or flat tappet lifters from this photo?

Re: Can you verify roller or flat tappet lifters from this photo?

Flat. Roller lifters have a locking plate (nothing like that in that photo) to stop them rotating.
 
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NHGuy

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May 21, 2009
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Re: Can you verify roller or flat tappet lifters from this photo?

Re: Can you verify roller or flat tappet lifters from this photo?

Please check for metal debris before restarting your motor. If it's in there check the cam for wiped lobes.
If there's no metal shrapnel, do the fuel pump. And check the carb float level, it's supposed to be 15/64" height. Set the primary fuel mix screws to 2 turns from bottom, I know the book says 2 to 3; 2 works best. Prime the carb with some fuel down the primary bore or some carb cleaner. Apply cooling water and start it
If it's a new cam you need to do the break in. Synthetic does not complete it. Put in some break in oil with zinc, and when you start the motor, go immediately to 2000 rpm while watching your oil pressure and temp. This is the one time not to warm up the engine, just go 2000. Do the 30 minutes at 2000 to 2500 rpm. Move the throttle some during the break in, you don't want constant engine speed at this time. It should vary.
Then check the oil for condition, check the compression and change the oil.
We have our fingers crossed for you.
 
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Joined
Mar 27, 2010
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3,008
Re: Can you verify roller or flat tappet lifters from this photo?

Re: Can you verify roller or flat tappet lifters from this photo?

CamsRollerLifters1.jpg

Like Chris mentioned roller lifters have a bar connecting two together so they don't spin.

Hydraulic lifters don't.
 

Bt Doctur

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 29, 2004
Messages
19,346
Re: Can you verify roller or flat tappet lifters from this photo?

Re: Can you verify roller or flat tappet lifters from this photo?

you would see these in a roller
roll_zps9f91a0f5.jpg
 
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
19
Re: Problems with first rebuild

Status Report - I ordered a new fuel pump. I drained oil and found only metal dust on oil surface and 3-4 small pieces of metal at bottom of pan. I cut open the oil filter and opened the filter media to look for more metal. i found some metal dust and 4-5 small pieces of metal. I will replace the mercruiser 25-40 synthetic blend oil I removed with valvoline VR1 20-50 racing oil. This is the only oil I found that said on bottle it has high zink levels and protects flat tappet motors and push rods. I took off valve covers to verify that I do indeed have flat tappet lifters. Thanks for reply's to photo. I found no metal in this chamber only more contaminated oil. I want to make some lash adjustments but am still not confidant in all steps. As I am researching this matter, I am finding there is much difference in mechanic preference. I am leaning towards using NHGuys method because it seams easy enough (especially considering my skill level)but some say doing one cylinder at a time is better. Still confused. I also hope this new adjustment will aid in compression numbers. I bought a new compression tester for retest after "re-break in".
 

NHGuy

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May 21, 2009
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Re: Problems with first rebuild

That valve adjustment method I put in is what Mercruiser recommends. You can adjust the valves any way that sets them while on the cam base circles.
I'd be interested if you could try to count the number of counterclockwise turns it takes to get your pushrods loosened. If they are are than a full turn from zero lash that would explain the low compression because they wouldn't fully close. When the valves are overtight it keeps them off the seats. When you do the correct adjustment you can expect better compression.
 

Walt T

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Mar 16, 2002
Messages
1,369
Re: Problems with first rebuild

Get a gear marker pen and mark each valve nut when you are done with it and to verify you are doing them in the right sequence. Or some way of marking each nut. I mark every head bolt when it's torqued, main cap bolts, rod bolts, etc. Funny how I learned to do this the hard way.
 
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