Refridgerator

[sasto]

Just started a restoration of a 1974 Penn Yan. The fridge wouldn't work, for days, nothing. Removed her from the boat, she sat for a couple days, plugged her in again, nothing. A buddy moved her to another location and inadvertably set her on her side. Figuring I would give her one more chance, I plugged her in. On her side she ran, back to bottom, nothing. I let her run on her side for appx 15 mins, stood her upright, she runs fine and quiet. Keeping my beverages cold for 2 days now.........What gives? Anything to this?

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Refridgerator

Sounds like you have a poor electrical connection (maybe even a circuit board contact) thay was only making connection while on it's side. Maybe the heat from the so-so contact has welded it's bridge.

Good luck while it works. I would go through it sooner or later. Don't want your boat to burn up by accident.

 

[sasto]

Re: Refridgerator

Good luck while it works. I would go through it sooner or later. Don't want your boat to burn up by accident.

Thanks for the advice and your concern, Fireman.

 

[seabob4]

Re: Refridgerator

Sasto,
One thing you might want to consider when replacing that reefer....think about using a standard home compact fridge like you can buy at wally world for a $100 or so, way cheaper than a Norcold or Waeco, yes you lose the DC side of a Norcold, but you can always run it off an inverter away from AC power. I don't think you are going to be quashing 8 footers with that Penn Yan, so the "marine" toughness isn't really a question...

I've installed 1000s of Norcolds...they aren't any better than a home unit...

 

[sasto]

Re: Refridgerator

Sasto,
One thing you might want to consider when replacing that reefer....think about using a standard home compact fridge like you can buy at wally world for a $100 or so, way cheaper than a Norcold or Waeco, yes you lose the DC side of a Norcold, but you can always run it off an inverter away from AC power. I don't think you are going to be quashing 8 footers with that Penn Yan, so the "marine" toughness isn't really a question...

I've installed 1000s of Norcolds...they aren't any better than a home unit...

Thanks for all the above, Seabob. She is going to be a river boat, fishing and overnight camper. You are right, marine not important. How long could I run the reefer on an inverter with a 1000 CCA starting battery without running the engine 65 amp alt. I just pulled a cold beverage from the fridge, which will be replaced, but I am also curious as to how this thing started up. She ran on her side, not on bottom, for several cycles.

 

[rwidman]

Re: Refridgerator

My guess is that it has something to do with the refrigerant collecting in the bottom of the compressor or coils and when you set it on its side, the refrigerant drained to where it could operate like it is supposed to.

I realize that that is a poorly worded explanation, but I've heard of this happening.

 

[rwidman]

Re: Refridgerator

............... How long could I run the reefer on an inverter with a 1000 CCA starting battery without running the engine 65 amp alt............ .

You will have to figure the current draw (in amps) at 120 volts AC and convert it to 12 volts, factoring in the 20% or so loss through the inverter. Convert that to amp hours and then find out the capacity in amp hours of the battery. You shouldn't discharge a battery more than 50% so figure that in also.

You should really use one or more deep cycle (not starting) batteries to operate a refrigerator on a boat.

A refrigerator designed to be used on a boat and automatically switch from 120 volt AC shore power to 12 volt battery power is generally more efficient than a 120 volt AC refrigerator powered with an inverter. Some of this is because it's better insulated and designed to be efficient and some is because when the thermostat is satisfied, the compressor shuts off. With a household (dorm) refrigerator, even though the compressor shuts off, the inverter will still be powered on.

Just a guess - your dorm refrigerator powered by an inverter running from a 1000 CCA starting battery will operate about ten hours. Much less if you plan to use the same battery to start the boat. It's a guess.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Refridgerator

You will have to figure the current draw (in amps) at 120 volts AC and convert it to 12 volts, factoring in the 20% or so loss through the inverter. Convert that to amp hours and then find out the capacity in amp hours of the battery. You shouldn't discharge a battery more than 50% so figure that in also.

You should really use one or more deep cycle (not starting) batteries to operate a refrigerator on a boat.

A refrigerator designed to be used on a boat and automatically switch from 120 volt AC shore power to 12 volt battery power is generally more efficient than a 120 volt AC refrigerator powered with an inverter. Some of this is because it's better insulated and designed to be efficient and some is because when the thermostat is satisfied, the compressor shuts off. With a household (dorm) refrigerator, even though the compressor shuts off, the inverter will still be powered on.

Just a guess - your dorm refrigerator powered by an inverter running from a 1000 CCA starting battery will operate about ten hours. Much less if you plan to use the same battery to start the boat. It's a guess.

Very good explanation. I have a 12/110 Norcold in my boat. I also have (2) brand-new 1000 MCA, Group 27 batteries in the boat. Can't recall the AH rating. They're Duralast wet-cells from Autozone.

2 weekends ago I cooled it down on shorepower overnight, then went to a weekend raft-up. Once there, I switched to the house battery, set the fridge to medium, and left it alone. 24 hours later the battery still showed 12 amps on the dash voltmeter (it reads right at the midpoint between 12 and 13 when fully charged with no load, so I know the voltmeter is at least fairly accurate). I started the motor off that batt, too, just for the heck of it.

As stated, a dorm-type fridge will work less efficiently for all the reasons listed, but it might be worth considering just because of the price difference between the two types. Heck, you can get a used one for $25 to experiment with. If it doesn't work out I'm sure you can find other uses for the inverter (small microwave, coffee maker, etc.)

Good luck. If you try it I'd love to hear the results...

 

[seabob4]

Re: Refridgerator

I know a bunch of rag -baggers in St. Pete that use these little $25 "bought on CL" fridges, replaced the old Norcolds that went out. Granted, they are to cheap to pay for a gallon of gas to get out of their moorings, so they don't have to worry about DC power...but he little suckers do the trick...

What happens when to rag baggers argue over a penny? You end up with 18GA wire...

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Refridgerator

Thanks for all the above, Seabob. She is going to be a river boat, fishing and overnight camper. You are right, marine not important. How long could I run the reefer on an inverter with a 1000 CCA starting battery without running the engine 65 amp alt. I just pulled a cold beverage from the fridge, which will be replaced, but I am also curious as to how this thing started up. She ran on her side, not on bottom, for several cycles.

Would you do better with the 110v mini-fridge and one of those quiet little 2000 watt Honda generators that you can get for $250? They will run 10-12 hours on a gallon of gas and put out low decibels. Might be easier and more peace of mind than trusting your batteries to fire up the engines in the morning after cooling the fridge all night.

 

[soaringhiggy]

Re: Refridgerator

Would you do better with the 110v mini-fridge and one of those quiet little 2000 watt Honda generators that you can get for $250? They will run 10-12 hours on a gallon of gas and put out low decibels. Might be easier and more peace of mind than trusting your batteries to fire up the engines in the morning after cooling the fridge all night.

Exactly, that would be the set up I would go for. You could run most of the boat on "shore power" that way.

The gens have become so light, quite and dependable that it makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Refridgerator

Would you do better with the 110v mini-fridge and one of those quiet little 2000 watt Honda generators that you can get for $250? They will run 10-12 hours on a gallon of gas and put out low decibels. Might be easier and more peace of mind than trusting your batteries to fire up the engines in the morning after cooling the fridge all night.

Where do you get a Honda EU2000i generator for $250?? They cost a grand new. For that money I can buy a new 12/110 fridge, inverter and a bank of 2 or 3 or 4 deep-cycle batteries.

Granted, it's a nice choice if you have a good-sized boat with above-deck storage room, and don't mind dealing with fuel transfer, emptying the tank before putting it away, etc. Also, your 'neighbors' won't appreciate you running it continuously while on the hook.

My .02

 

[sasto]

Re: Refridgerator

Thanks for the advice. The Admiral wants this boat to be pristine, so she will get a new fridge. If I can get at least 10 hours of power from the inverter, that would be just fine, long enough to keep the vittles cold before dinner. If she's not happy with it she will want the generator, which will run the stove and her hair dryer, two things I can do without (don't cook and shaved my head). Another battery and an inverter for starters. I have a D4 battery not being used on another boat, maybe I should use it for the fridge. Another boat at the marina has one of those portable generators, which I have never used, and I will check it out. Again, thanks.

 

[rwidman]

Re: Refridgerator

Would you do better with the 110v mini-fridge and one of those quiet little 2000 watt Honda generators that you can get for $250?

Next time you see a Honda 2000 watt generator for $200, call me quick, I want one.

I think they're more like $900 if you shop around.

 

[rwidman]

Re: Refridgerator

Think about this folks:

I have a Nova Kool 120 volt/ 12 volt refrigerator on my boat. Granted, it probably cost $1K. The boat is slipped and plugged into shore power so the refrigerator and its contents are cold. When I leave the slip, I unplug the shore power, the refrigerator switches to 12 volt DC power automatically and it remains cold.

I have a house bank of four batteries and I have often spent 24 hours or so on the hook without running the engine and the batteries have powered the refrigerator, lights, inverter (for the microwave), and other electrical loads.

Return to the dock, plug the shorepower in, and the refrigerator switches to 120 volts AC and the charger recharges the batteries.

Why would I want to mess with switching an inverter on and off to run a refrigerator? Why would I want to waste the extra energy for the loss in the inverter? And why in the world would I want to fire up and run a generator for two days at a time just to keep food and beverages cold? If it came down to that, I would buy ice and use a cooler!

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Refridgerator

Where do you get a Honda EU2000i generator for $250?? They cost a grand new. For that money I can buy a new 12/110 fridge, inverter and a bank of 2 or 3 or 4 deep-cycle batteries.

I was wrong on the price (I was estimating). This is a 1000+ watt and is $409.00. This is also the first site I looked at, so I can assume someone, somewhere has it cheaper, although $400 isn't a bad deal.

Granted, it's a nice choice if you have a good-sized boat with above-deck storage room

Seriously? How much deck room do you need for something smaller than a backpack? These are made to fit on a swim platform, even a small one that you find next to an outboard.

and don't mind dealing with fuel transfer, emptying the tank before putting it away, etc.

I don't think putting less than a gallon of gas in before you head out is really considered an issue is it? You fill the boat, too right?

Also, your 'neighbors' won't appreciate you running it continuously while on the hook.

Less than 59 decibels while running. That it lower than the average conversation level. These things are as quiet as a car idling. I know when I'm out on the hook with other boats around, we all have gennies running and it's never been an issue. I can't hear the engine on mine and the only noise is the water/exhaust bubbling. And I'm running a 7.3 Kohler!

Besides, I never said it was the perfect solution, I only inquired if it would be easier.

 

[sasto]

Re: Refridgerator

You make a good point, rwidman. The fridge #1 use is to keep the old boat origional looking. The #2 use is for keeping fresh bait cooled at dock under shore power. #3 is because the Admiral says so. #4 to keep meats and veggies cold for a few hours while on the hook. This dorm fridge wouldn't hold all the beverages we carry. But I don't find switching over to a converter a problem. The 35 Cabo has the AC/DC fridge you are speaking of but the old Penn Yan is not the same caliber of boat.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Refridgerator

I was wrong on the price (I was estimating). This is a 1000+ watt and is $409.00. This is also the first site I looked at, so I can assume someone, somewhere has it cheaper, although $400 isn't a bad deal.



Seriously? How much deck room do you need for something smaller than a backpack? These are made to fit on a swim platform, even a small one that you find next to an outboard.





I don't think putting less than a gallon of gas in before you head out is really considered an issue is it? You fill the boat, too right?



Less than 59 decibels while running. That it lower than the average conversation level. These things are as quiet as a car idling. I know when I'm out on the hook with other boats around, we all have gennies running and it's never been an issue. I can't hear the engine on mine and the only noise is the water/exhaust bubbling. And I'm running a 7.3 Kohler!

Besides, I never said it was the perfect solution, I only inquired if it would be easier.

And I never implied it was a bad choice, just that there are some negatives to consider. No single solution is perfect.

 

[rwidman]

Re: Refridgerator

I was wrong on the price (I was estimating). This is a 1000+ watt and is $409.00. This is also the first site I looked at, so I can assume someone, somewhere has it cheaper, although $400 isn't a bad deal.

Please post a link. I will buy one just for my home in case the power goes out.

 

[rwidman]

Re: Refridgerator

........ Seriously? How much deck room do you need for something smaller than a backpack? These are made to fit on a swim platform, even a small one that you find next to an outboard ........... .

Yes it will fit on a swim platform but what about spashing from the boat's wake or waves when anchored? What about when it rains?

Are you going to store the generator on the swim platform or bring it into the cabin or engine compartment full of gasoline?

What about the carbon monoxide from the exhaust?

But I am ready to buy one for $409 for my home. Hurricane season is just around the corner.