Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

[Lou C]

Re: Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

I think you'll be far better off replacing all of the old stuff, and being in a salt water area, you want to use the best stuff you can. Having said that, I re-habbed my old Load Rite about 7 years ago, new axle, springs, and added brakes. At the time, disc systems were still somewhat troublesome so I went with drums. My use is similar to the original posters, the boat stays on a salt water mooring and the trailer gets dunked only about 4 times per year. With that, the drums have not been a big problem. I replaced the original backing plate assemblies after 5 seasons. I found that in order to make drums last, you need to remove the rubber dust seal (it's not water proof) and put some syn caliper grease on the piston and in the inside of the rubber seal. Then take some high temp RTV and use that to help seal around the seal where it goes over the edge of the wheel cylinder and in the hole that the pushrod tube goes into in the seal. Finally, use some OMC/Bombardier triple guard grease (water proof grease for salt water) on the threads of the adjuster, these often freeze up. If you do these things you can keep water out of the wheel cylinder and stop the piston from seizing, that's what causes most of the trouble with drum brakes. Still discs will be better, if I was putting on a new system now, I'd use discs. The only advantages of drums is that for light weight trailers, they may work better because they are self energizing, they provide braking action at lower brake system pressures than disc brakes can. Thats why disc brakes on cars always have a power booster, but years ago on small cars it was common to have un-assisted drum brakes. Also they run cooler on a surge system because the return springs prevent the shoes from constantly rubbing the drum, unlike disc brakes.

see

http://www.championtrailers.com/techsup.html#techretro

http://www.championtrailers.com/DrumVsDiscBrakeArtcl.htm

http://www.championtrailers.com/DISC_BRAKE_INSTALLATION_ARTICLE.HTM

 

[capslock118]

Re: Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

Status update:
So I ordered all of the parts this past thursday on 31-mar-2011 and I received all of the stuff I ordered on Monday 4-apr-2011!!! that is an amazing time frame for shipping what with the weekend and all. UPS is awesome.

I bought from Eastern Marine because they had the axle at the best price (local co's couldn't offer that low) plus they had the brakes on sale. I know everyone advised not to go with Tie-down however this was my line of logic:
-I pull the trailer 4 times per year, the trailer is submerged in salt-water (any water) 1 time per year. Even if the rotors and brakes rusted out after 2 years, all I would need to replace would be the rotors and brakes, I bought the tie-down because it included the brake lines and actuator which had I bought everything seperate would have cost me more.

After buying new safety chains, brake setup, axle, new side marker lights, new winch strap, reflectors, and springs the order after shipping was $752.

The only question I have now is - I have to dril the axle for the springs and also drain hole(s). Do I need to do anything specific to ensure that I do not ruin the galvination of the drill holes? I have anti-corrosive spray but maybe there are more steps involved? I could also be overthinking it.

 

[jeffnick]

Re: Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

Drill the axle for springs? I don't think so... Post the part number of the axle.

 

[capslock118]

Re: Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

Post the part number of the axle.

http://www.easternmarine.com/7525-Square-Galvanized-Trailer-Axle-3500-lb-49551-/

Note: Axles are shipped without spring seat holes or drain hole. It is the customer's responsibility to drill spring holes to your trailers specs and a 5/16" drain hole.

 

[jeffnick]

Re: Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

My bad - I thought you meant holding the springs to the axle with bolts through the axle or something.

First, I'd make sure you really need the spring seat holes. And if you don't need the spring seat holes, then you probably don't need the drain either.

As far as 'protecting' the holes where the galvanizing is gone...perhaps a squirt of cold galvanizing paint?

 

[capslock118]

Re: Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

First, I'd make sure you really need the spring seat holes. And if you don't need the spring seat holes, then you probably don't need the drain either.

I'll check that again; when I looked yesterday the springs had a bolt in the center holding the springs together.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

ok the bolt holding the springs together is normally placed in a hole in the spring perch mounted on a round axle, you have a square tube axle so you will have to drill a hole to locate the springs since square axles do not use a perch. Once you drill a square tube axle its going to get water into it so its best to drill a drain hole in the axle maybe two. The way around this is to weld spring perches onto your new axle and then spray cold galvanizing on the welded portion of the axle (taking special precautions when welding galvanized steel). The problem is that no matter what you do other then regalvanizing the entire axle the axle will rust over time nothing is as good as factory galvanizing but if you reapply the cold galvanizing spray every two years I think you will be fine. I feel that this option is the way I would go instead of drilling a sealed axle with no way of protecting the inside of the axle that now has holes in it.

My biggest concern is that the inside of the axle is raw steel, once the axle is drilled there is no way to protect the inside of the axle from rust, by welding perches onto the axle you eliminate the possibility of water entering the inside of the axle but you now have inferior protection on the outside of the axle where you can deal with it as needed, does that make sense? Your looking at a small bit of fabrication to make the perches for square tube but if your able to do this job then purchasing a set of perches and then cutting them from round to square should be a piece of cake. Welding them onto the axle could be an issue but any welder can do it with the proper precautions noted in very short order once the fabrication is done, less then an hour total labor for a decent welder.

 

[wifisher]

Re: Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

sorry, when you drill a hole, that hole will not be galvanized. Galvanized means zinc plated. A scratch, drilled hole or anything else that disturbs the surface will remove the zinc from that area. "cold galvanizing" is glorified spray paint.

 

[ufm82]

Re: Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

I must be the only one on the face of the Earth that has purchased the Tie Down kits and haven't had an issue. Forgive me for saying it but I take care of my gear have have as yet to have an issue. 3 years with them and no issues yet. I just spent today cleaning everything before putting the trailer tires back on and I commented to my wife that the brakes look great. My boat has been in saltwater 3 times for a week at a time and goes in the river here a dozen times a year. Not a lot of use but enough. Do the rotors have rust? Sure- they're not stainless. Is it excessive? No- all my vehicles rotors get rust on them too when I don't drive them for a month.

I find that discs are much easier to deal with than drums, they stop better. work faster after being wet and are better all around.

UFM82

 

[capslock118]

Re: Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

Update:

I bought all my parts from eastern marine.com; they had all of the parts including the brakes, springs, and axle. I bought all of the products at around 3pm on a thursday and the following monday all of the parts arrived via UPS. I am only a couple states away from their operations however I thought this was exceptional turnaround time from warehouse to UPS then UPS to my door.

I ended up going with the Tie Down disc brake kit as it was $50 off and any other combination (buying all the parts for disc or drum individually or a kit from another company would have cost more). As I only put the trailer in the water once or twice per year right now, I figure even if the rotors and brakes were to go bad after a couple years well, the rotors and brakes can be replaced. The brake line and the actuator had to be replaced on my trailer and that's really why I went with the kit.

anyways that's enough justification. Everything has been installed and the trailer is finally back on it's feet; I just need to bleed the brakes and finish mounting the lines onto the trailer.

all in all, after buying a couple other small things for the trailer, this project cost me about $750 after shipping. (you can see the receipt below)

question about the bearings:
The rotor and bearings came 'pre-greased' and 'pre-installed'. All the parts looked like they were in their correct location. I lightly greased the axle spindles prior to putting the bearings/hub/rotors onto the spindle.

do I need to add more grease to the hubs or is it sufficient as they stand? the axle spindle has a little grease attachment which seems awfully convinient.

anyways I'm not sure how full the bearings need to be with grease. I put the stock bearing caps with the little rubber seal on the hubs and I don't intend to buy bearing buddies - at least this year.

thanks.



receipt:

Rectangular Amber Reflector, Self Adhesive #98003Y1569168 $0.994 $3.96
Class-II Trailer Safety Chains w/S-Hooks #812025256036 $10.991 $10.99
75.25" Square Galvanized Trailer Axle (3500 lb.) #49551 5257069 $153.501 $153.50
2" x 20ft Trailer Winch Strap w/Loop End #WS2007005020198 $10.391 $10.39
TIE DOWN Vented Disc Brake S.A. Complete Kit, 5-Lug #821015256187 $339.951 $339.95
Flat 4-Prong Vehicle Knockout Adapter #476055177053 $8.991 $8.99
9/16" x 3-1/2" Shackle Bolt & Nut (1 pair) #11031A5212077 $6.791 $6.79
3" Spool Type Bow Roller - Black Rubber #3143-45272023 $2.691 $2.69
30" Flat End Slipper Trailer Leaf Spring (4 leaves) #US-30545266042 $50.002 $100.00
4, 5, & 6-Pole Trunk Connector Bracket #486055177067 $4.691 $4.69
4-Flat Connector Cover #201125223290 $2.491 $2.49
Tie Plate Kit for 2" Square Trailer Axle #811855256017 $26.501 $26.50
Amber Clearance/Side Marker Light #114A5005011 $6.492 $12.98
 
Subtotal:$683.92
Shipping:$68.67
Total:$752.59

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

you can't have to much grease, unless....

I would suggest a set of bearing buddies they are the simplest way of assuring that you have the proper amount of grease in your hubs and the easiest way of applying the proper amount of grease. they provide you with a grease port on the face of your hub all you do is simply hook up your grease gun and give it a few pumps until the hub indicator is pushed out to the proper length indicating you are at the proper amount of grease.

This is the simplified version but it really is that simple

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

If you have the spindle lube axle, you don't usually add grease through a bearing buddy, the grease flows from the back to the front of the hub. You didn't get directions?

 

[Lou C]

Re: Replace drum brakes with disc breaks?

http://www.tiedown.com/pdf/c718.pdf

take a look at this, if you have the grease fitting in the spindle, then it's the Tie Down super lube system. I have it on mine and it works great, but keep in mind the dust cap that goes on the hub, has a sharp edge inside, be careful. You adjust the bearing preload, replace that dust cap, then grease it while turning the hub so the grease gets spread throughout the bearings (you will see the new grease pushing out the old grease) and then clean out the opening (carefully) and install the rubber cap.