Restoring 1974 revisited.

[Jim Marshall]

I wrote in to find out some steps in getting my 1974 302 Volvo/Glastron boat going again. It had been in storage for 9 years. I found some good suggestions from the participants and launched myself into the project.

After draining the gas out I put some Kreen rust inhibitor in each cylinder and thought I would turn it over slowly with spark plugs removed. To my surprise I found that it was totally seized.

In looking closer I found that two of the freeze plugs were laying in the bilge. I always drained the block but it looking back I remembered a death in the family had messed up all of the things I usually did.

Now I am wondering which way to turn. I talked to a local engine rebuilder and he told me that the 302 Ford blocks are pretty thin and can collapse on the pistons or leak into the cylinder and may cause the lock up. He told me that I was probably looking at a new block and complete rebuild to the tune of up to $2000. They don't remove or replace engines and so I would be on my own.

I asked him if it would be better to replace it with a 351 and he advised me that it would add additional weight and change the boat characterstics.

I need some help on this one. Is the engine very tough to get out? If I take it out should I remove the stern drive first? Or is it even worth it on a boat of this age?

I need some help on this one.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[ringmaster]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

the only major differences between the 302 and 351 is the weight the 302 weighs 460lbs and the 351 weighs 525lbs i dont think the much weight difference would hurt anything but some one with bett knowlage with boats can help. as for the actual difference between the 2 motors they are both small blocks. the 302 has a bore and stroke of 4x3 and the 351 is 4x3.5 the 302 is 24" wide and the 351 is 25" wide the 302 is 27 1/2 high and the 351 is 29 " high. the only issue is the weight other then that i think you would be fine.

 

[SeaKaye12]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Hey Jim...no shortage of automotive 302's out there; eh?

You could find a good deal on one of those and switch over all the "marine" components for use in the boat.

Then; at your leisure you could tear down the present block to see exactly what if anything could be made of it.

You must feel that the hull is worth the effort; eh? What's it look like?

Chuck

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

It is a V-184 Glastron. I believe Glastron made one of the first sequential lift V-Hulls (vintage old James Bond). I bought it new in 1974 and took really good care of it. We lived on a lake and it was used in the summer. In the summer it was always kept covered at a dock. Waxing at least one time each year and treating the upholstery kept it in really good shape. Keeping it in my garage in the winter with a small heater kept it dry and mold free.

When we moved into town I didn't have as much space and kept it in covered but relatively open storage. There was no electricity to it so I couldn't keep it heated. In addition, I had little time and apparently I forgot to drain it fully and hence the damage occurred. Nine years passed and I decided to bring it back. I was surprised that the hull looked so good including shiny fiberglass and upholstery. Even the original top looked okay. I remember it being a great performing boat with a top speed of 46 mph. It was a good family runabout, pulled skiers well and was fun to go fishing and crabbing.

Amazingly the boat hull is still in great shape. The outdrive still looks good and I plan to change the bellows, etc. The engine would have probably been okay as well since I had fogged it before storing. I don't know how boats perform now and have not kept up with the best brands but I was impressed the most with Glastron at that time.

Jim

 

[Max Poston]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

I can help you with this. First step is to buy a Mercruiser repair manual that covers your motor/drive. About thirty bucks. Take pictures of the motor and note location of wires,hoses, and cables. The easiest way to remove the motor without a fight is to pull the outdrive first. Remove the six nuts that fasten the drive to the transom assy' on the outside of the transom (place the shifter in forward first) and slide the drive backwards until it is free of the boat. Un hook all wires, cables, and hoses that connect the motor to the boat. (not complicated - just pay attention to the location of each and take more pic's if needed) Unhook the exaust connections at the elbows (usually two hose clamps fastening the manifolds to the rubber exaust bellows or hoses) Take the carb off so you don't break or bend any linkage when lifting the engine. At the rear of the engine there are two large bolts that fasten the flywheel housing to the transom assy'. These are 8" or so left and right of the centerline of the crankshaft/flywheel at the rear or the flywheel housing oriented up and down so when you look at the rear of the housing you are either looking down on a large bolt head or nut. These are bolts with nuts. Feel them by running your hands underneath to get an idea of what you are working with. When you get these out the next step is to unbolt the front motor supports. The best way I've found to do this is to remove the large lag bolts that bolt the left and right supports to the stringers. Do not disturb the jack bolts on the supports or you will have to realign the engine/drive assy'. You will want to reseal these bolts with 3M 5200 marine sealer anyway upon re installation. To make the job easier I usually remove the alternator/brackets and the distributor and plug wires. Now hook a lifting chain to opposite front/rear corners and pick a lifting point slightly nearer the rear of the engine and give her an easy lift to see if everything is unhooked and clear. If all is good lift it out of the hull! I know it sounds complicated but I can set one of these out in about an hour to an hour and a half! When you get it out Email me and we can continue. While you are online you may want to check "Craigslist" in the boat section in your city (and nearby) for a possible donor boat with the 302 engine. I've bought complete boats with bad floors/interiors and good motors/drives for as little as $300.00 this time of year! Good Luck and email me if needed. Max

 

[Max Poston]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Ahhhhh batpoopie. I assumed you had a mercruiser drive when I launched this post between phone calls and other interruptions. I am going to leave this posted in hopes it will help someone else. BUT - You can replace your volvo penta 302 with a Mercruiser OR OMC 302. They ARE interchangeable so you can look for either. I'll post the volvo info later today or early tonight. :redface:

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

I noticed that you responded as if it was a Mercruiser. It is a Volvo 270 I/O. I believe that most of the steps you described after the stern drive would still pertain. It looks like there are several bolts that bolt the bell housing to the engine. Some look more difficult than others to get off. Assuming that I take the outdrive off first can I then remove the bell housing from the engine?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[JasonB]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

"talked to a local engine rebuilder and he told me that the 302 Ford blocks are pretty thin and can collapse on the pistons or leak into the cylinder and may cause the lock up"

Say what? Never heard of this before. I have a 302/Mercruiser in my '76 Glastron. Rebuilt it 5 years ago and had to bore the cylinders .030, which is the max I would go for marine use, but in auto, I've heard of .040. I have had no issues with it. I kow another Glastron guy that went radical on his 302. No failures related to boring.

There are a couple subtle differences in the 351. It is heavier as pointed out, but it is also a bit wider due to a taller deck on the block. It requires a wider intake. Otherwise it is almost bolt/go. Not 100% sure if the exhaust manifolds are further apart or not.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Sounds like it would be well worth the engine swap if you can do most of the work yourself. Just below 50 mph from a stock, carbureted 5.0 liter is still about what you see today.

If you take it to a marina or shop, expect at a minimum for it to take a day to pull the engine, a day to swap everything over, and a day to put it back in. Takes time to get those rusted bolts loose! Need to consider replacing exhaust manifolds too probably. At about $80 - $100 an hour for the labor plus the cost of a marine small block and other parts, it might end up being more than the boat's worth.

On the other hand, if you have the tools and know how to do most of it yourself, you can probably easily get it back together for less than $1000 and have a very nice boat to enjoy. Depends on how much free time you have!

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Stick with a 302 unless tou want to modify your exhaust, get a bigger carb & replace the intake......​

 

[ringmaster]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

as far as the manifolds are they are the same 302 and 351 bolt right up im not on the rest of the exhaust though.

 

[ringmaster]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

to bad your not close to michigan i have a merc 302 with or with out heads. id give it to ya.

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Well, I pulled the electrical, cooling, exhaust, etc. off the engine. Attached are pictures of the boat, the engine and the rear of the engine where I am wondering which bolts to take out. I am planning to pull the outdrive as previously suggested.

Jim

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Forgot this one of the stripped engine.

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

I'll get this sooner or later.

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

To Max Poston and others,

Thanks so much for the information you provided me. I posted a few photos that will show where I am at this stage. It looks like there may be two places that the engine and stern drive are connected. I assume that the outdrive is connected to the engine something like in a typical clutch situation with a bell housing, etc. Removing the stern drive unit is like pulling the transmission with the bell housing left attached to the engine. Where is the disconnect point to free the engine? Things are looking up, I think.

Jim

 

[45Auto]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

Should be some bolts that attach the bellhousing to the outdrive plate at the back of the boat. Remove those, the bellhousing will stay with the motor when you pull it.

The outdrive attaches to the engine flywheel with a splined shaft. The shaft coupler is bolted to the flywheel. Easiest way to get that apart is pull the outdrive, the shaft stays with the outdrive. You'll want new bellows on that outdrive anyway, and will want to check and at least grease the u-joints.

Once the rear motor mount bolts, outdrive shaft, and front motor mount bolts are removed you're good to pull the motor. looks like you've got the rest of the claptrap already pulled.

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

I will look for the bolts at the back. It looks like there are two sets of them. I was glad to get the manifolds off (more room to work). It seems like there would be plenty of room but the way the Glastron is built there is not a lot of room at the very back.

I plan to replace the bellows. It has been a long time and bad ones could probably sink the boat. I see Sierra as a brand. Are these good?

Today, between football games I am going to pull the stern drive. Some of those manuals are really bad, aren't they. Any tips?

Next adventure is repowering the beast including such questions as:

1. 302 vs. 351? What things can I do with a 302 to give it a little more guts? Are the 351 engines worth the work?

2. How does all of that exhaust get out through the stern drive without restriction? No Flowmaster here.

3. Are the existing OEM exhaust manifolds really as bad as they are portrayed?

4. How am I going to convert this to freshwater given the fact that there is not much room back there?

5. The engine rebuilder says that there is not difference between an auto engine and a marine engine. Is that true?

6. If I opt for better exhaust manifolds will they connect up to the volvo 270.

7. Why do I get myself into these things? It looked simple at the outset.

Again, thanks to all of you that are more experienced than I am.

Jim

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

I will look for the bolts at the back. It looks like there are two sets of them. I was glad to get the manifolds off (more room to work). It seems like there would be plenty of room but the way the Glastron is built there is not a lot of room at the very back.

I plan to replace the bellows. It has been a long time and bad ones could probably sink the boat. I see Sierra as a brand. Are these good?

Today, between football games I am going to pull the stern drive. Some of those manuals are really bad, aren't they. Any tips?

Next adventure is repowering the beast including such questions as:

1. 302 vs. 351? What things can I do with a 302 to give it a little more guts? Are the 351 engines worth the work?
You can get 225hp with a 4 barrell.....

2. How does all of that exhaust get out through the stern drive without restriction? No Flowmaster here.
Relief ports....
There really is not that much restriction....

3. Are the existing OEM exhaust manifolds really as bad as they are portrayed?
No.....

4. How am I going to convert this to freshwater given the fact that there is not much room back there?
Redo your engine enclosure....

5. The engine rebuilder says that there is not difference between an auto engine and a marine engine. Is that true?
The cam will be different......

6. If I opt for better exhaust manifolds will they connect up to the volvo 270.
They depends......

7. Why do I get myself into these things? It looked simple at the outset.

Again, thanks to all of you that are more experienced than I am.

Jim

It always looks easy......

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Restoring 1974 revisited.

The engine says it is 200 hp on the valve covers. It has a 450 CFM Holley 4160 carburetor. The next step I see is a 600 CFM. Would that do any good?

If I get this rebuilt should I use the old cam? Would the rebuilder know marine engine cams? I have heard that boats require a lot more consistent torque and are hard on engines.

The sad thing about this is the engine was in great shape before with only 350 hours.

Jim