Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

ezmobee

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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

The transom is the rear of the boat where the motor hangs. Fiberglass boats are typically reinforced there with two 3/4" sheets of plywood stacked for a total thickness of 1 1/2". If your transom is rotted out the force of the motor pushing your boat could crack and break the glass. Mine was pretty much mulch in my aluminum boat and I replaced it last year.
 
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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

The transom is the rear of the boat where the motor hangs. Fiberglass boats are typically reinforced there with two 3/4" sheets of plywood stacked for a total thickness of 1 1/2". If your transom is rotted out the force of the motor pushing your boat could crack and break the glass. Mine was pretty much mulch in my aluminum boat and I replaced it last year.

Yeah, thanks, I looked at it again last night and I see the actual piece of wood that you are talking about. I took a quick look in the middle of one of the bolt holes and it looked dry in the middle, but when in a day or so when the weatehr improves a bit I will take a core sample. I saw some threads where the top of the boat actually gets lifted off, and the transom is taken out this way. Is that the only way to do it? It seems pretty daunting! I'm still mulling over the thought of replacing the stringers, It really seems like a big jog, but not as big as the transom.

At this point I'm seriously evaluating how much work I really want to put into the boat. I don't have the funding I would like to to make it look like a new boat. I don't really expect it to last another 30 years as some were saying, and who knows where I will be then. With that in mind, I'm thinking how much work it will take to get at least 5 years before it would need work like this again.

Thanks again for all replies and advice :)
 

redfury

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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

The transom is easier than the stringers. You only have to deal with laminating two pieces of 3/4 ply together, and then bonding it to the hull, layering it with glass, then cutting a drain hole in the bilge, sealing that up and you are done. That's with the cap removed. That's a bit of a job, but there are other ways to go about doing it. It comes down to access.

Drill a few random spots from the inside of the transom and check for wetness of the wood. If it's dry, then you are fine, if it is wet, it will eventually rot if it hasn't started. There are certain things you can do, but we need to know exactly what is wet and what is dry in order to proceed.

You might get lucky. My Glastron had a REDWOOD ply transom...wasn't expecting that! Lightweight and rot resistant, but it had delaminated from the outer skin, and since I had taken the cap off anyway, it came out.

Now, the stringers are another thing.. You have to deal with keep the top of them level with each other in order to have a flat floor...that's the difficulty. Not impossible to do, there are many ways to accomplish a nice floor and good stringers, but you have to deal with 3 pieces instead of 1.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that don't be intimidated by the boat. It's only because you've never done it before that the job becomes a daunting task, when in reality, it isn't any harder than building a nice bird house.
 

redfury

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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

BTW, just looked over your pictures....that's a nice set up. I like the built in gas tank and battery. With as much as you've torn that boat down ( ie. windshield ), you might as well pull the rub rail off and yank off the cap.

Glastron did a MUCH better job building that boat than they did mine, it's obvious just looking at the 'glass wrap on your stringers.
 
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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

BTW, just looked over your pictures....that's a nice set up. I like the built in gas tank and battery. With as much as you've torn that boat down ( ie. windshield ), you might as well pull the rub rail off and yank off the cap.

Glastron did a MUCH better job building that boat than they did mine, it's obvious just looking at the 'glass wrap on your stringers.

Thanks. Yeah the windshield supports were pitted out anyways, and it made the boat easier to work on. I'm not sure if the stringers were the original ones but they certainly are in there good. Taking the cap off just adds one more thing for me to worry about :/. Keep in mind I've only driven a boat like twice, much less worked on one AT ALL! I'll take a look at the transom as soon as I can. Taking the cap off seems like a lot though, but might be worth it at this point too for the rub rails and transom. How easy is it to get the cap on/off?

As for the stringers, I have an idea of how I think that's going to go. One at a time first of all. I could grind out the old ones, and sand down the area as much as possible. Then get a piece of wood, same dimensions, and cut out the area for the floor brace. then screw it in, so it can stand up straight on it's own. Then go ahead and fiberglass from a bit froward of the floor brace all the way up. Once that is set, remove the floor brace and continue wrapping the entire stringer. Then repeat for all three.

Is there any detailed questions for doing the transom and stringer? I've read through all the topics mentioned here and some more, there's a ton of information there, but still things i have questions on. Like "laminating two pieces of plywood together" for the transom, and "sealing it up". Really i know nothing about the two, and only recently red up thoroughly on fiber glassing. Also, what kind of fiberglass cloth should i use? It seems like there are quite a few different types and sizes. And how many layers? I hate to dump all these questions here, only because everyone here seems to be much more knowledgeable and in-tune with these sorts of beginner things, so is there any other definitive resource for this kind of information? Thanks again everyone.
 

redfury

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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

Removing the cap is only as hard as the lack of help you have. Help can come in the way of friends and human power, or help can come in the way of building a structure to use to lift it off by yourself. Look at my project pictures. I have a 17ft Glastron and EVERY bit of that has been done by just yours truly. I'm going to lift the cap off the boat again this summer and I'm going to video tape myself doing it to help others visually see what is involved in removing it.

Trust me, if I can do mine, you can do yours. The top is a great deal of the weight of the boat, at least half of it. With the cap off, I can slide the boat on the bunks with one hand back and forth. I can lift the front of the boat up, as well as the back. I can move the boat on my grass on the trailer with just me moving it...remember, it's a tandem axle trailer...those aren't easy to move just by themselves! Get the top on the boat and I can't do any of the things I just mentioned without some level of mechanical leverage or help.

Laminating the transom. What you essentially will do is create a bond between the 2 layers of plywood. This can be accomplished in more than one way. Some use PL premium subfloor adhesive, others will use a layer of fiberglass mat. What matters is that whatever you use, it creates a strong bond that won't come apart at the joint ( where the two pieces of ply meet ). You want to use a high quality plywood for the transom ( actually, everywhere you might use plywood it should be high quality ), for the reason that any void in the ply can be a source of problems down the road either by moisture getting past the void and infiltrating the wood, or simply air trapped. Either will expand at a different rate than the wood and cause premature failure to some degree. Any degree of failure isn't tolerable for a quality build. And if you are going to do this, do it right. Failure on the water means a lot of trouble, which is why everyone stresses this so much.

Any time we talk about "sealing it up", we are stressing the point of making sure that any wood you use in the boat that can potentially sit in water needs to be 100% sealed. You can wrap it in a layer of fiberglass, you can seal it with resin, or varnish, or thinned out epoxy...all depends on what you want to use and what you have available. Above deck, you can get away with some exposed wood if it has a chance to air out and dry ( such as wood bracing under the dash for a sonar unit.

Sealing it up also means that anytime you drill into the wood to put a screw into it or just a hole, you need to seal that hole before you leave the screw in there. Drill the hole, then seal it, then put in the screw permanently.

Fiberglass that you will be looking for is some lightweight cloth for covering the transom, or mat, the stringers you'll want to use a heavier cloth.

You'll hear terms like 1708 Biaxial cloth and what that means is the first 2 numbers are the weight in oz. of the cloth and the other are the weight in oz of the mat. It is two types of fiberglass stitched together for ease of use. The mat side goes against what you are glassing to, and the cloth is the side that you will see.

Mat is like the primer of fiberglass...the glue that binds if you will. This is true for almost all fiberglassing except if you chose to use Epoxy resins. Epoxy as you know, is an excellent glue, so you don't need the mat part of the Biax for a proper bond.

Keep in mind though, that epoxy resins break down in sunlight, so you will want to use it only where it will absolutely be covered in paint, carpet, vinyl, etc....no gel coat though...gel coat is strictly for polyester, vinylester, etc and you probably won't be using it anyway.

The number of layers of glass that you will need to use is wholey dependant on the part you are working on. I suggest you go to your local library and pick up a book on fiberglass. There are some excellent reads on boats, but I don't have the names handy...someone else can chime in on that. Definitely worth doing some studying up with your nose in a book. The knowledge you can gain there vs. reading what we have to say here is worth the effort as it is going to be all in one place and designed to be absorbed. Read up and then come here for the Q&A sessions ;)
 
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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

Just an update so far -

I've removed the rest of the deck, and got all the excess fiberglass removed from the sides. Let me just say working with fiberglass like that is an experience i can live without ever doing again.

The three small screwholes in the hull have been patched and they are drying right now.

I tested the transom the other day and it turned out to be pretty okay. 90% of it was bone try shavings. Happy about that.

Against almost everyone suggestions, I've decided not to replace the stringers. Here is why. I would like to have this boat for maybe another few years, tops. To put that much work into a boat that I probably not keep for longer than that anywyas just doesn't make much sense to me. I appreciate everyones advice and support, and I'm sure you all are right but the (somewhat waterlogged) stringers are going to stay. Here are my next steps:

Foam
Install floorbrace
Install deck
Fiberglass deck
Clean up the bilge aeria


Also got a 3.5hp motor today for next to nothing, I figure once I get the deck and bilge area out I'll take it out on a lake just to test it out.

Again thanks to everyone
 

Yar.

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Jun 17, 2008
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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

I redid my first stringer and sole last year and I was under a major timeline that I set for myself and I did not do the transom or lift the cap to get to the front bit of the stringers, just tied them together as others here have done.

Now that I am done and a year down the road, I wish that I pulled the cap and did everything. The expense and time put in to do the stringer and sole was significant and overall it would not have taken much longer to do it all!

Being my first rebuild, there was many a time when I just stared at it with a beer in my hand wondering what was wrong with my head for doing this! I got through it with the help of reading posts and asking around at local shops etc...It seemed like a daunting task, but the more I went along (and yes many mistakes!) the more I was comfortable with doing it. I love my boat now and I take huge pride in having people say it looks good and I did it! Although, If I hang onto it for long, I will eventually take it all apart and "do it right".

So,

If you are not going to do the stringers and the rest of the boat, I would not bother to glass anything, just glue down the floor. Toss in a brace of whatever, get some closed cell styrofoam blocks that can be reused. Use some crap plywood and throw it in there for a floor as you are going to have to throw it all away in a couple of years anyway! This will buy you a couple of seasons to "feel" out boating and then you will be ready to do your baby right!!!

Oh, and don't put more than a 9.9 on it until the rest is done or you will need the services of your local Coast Guard Rescue boat......

Just my 2 cents:)
 
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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

Yar,

I see what your saying. I think not putting this much work into the boat and trying out boating might not be a bad idea for me. Consider the "phases" i've gone through.

Five years ago, I walked into a SCUBA shop with the intent of simply learning to dive for a vacation. Well I did, and five years later, I'm working at that shop and am an assistant instructor, and dive almost ever weekend.

Almost a year ago, I got my Firearms ID card, and really wanted to get into guns (rifles mostly, 200m target). Well I did, but now have a closet of guns that really never get used too much these days, not nearly as much as I had intended.

So this may be one of these things I really want to get into now, but might not in another year.

Also, I considered my job situation. Right now the almost full time sales job won't quite cut it to support me, a boat, and other essentials. I'm finishing up my Bachelors Degree for Network Communications Management, Systems Administration, so another 5 years (HOPEFULLY!!) and maybe I'll just go buy a new one. I'd still kind of like the deck to look decent, but agree with not spending a whole lot of time/money on that part.

The least I could do at this point is just take more pics and document what I'm doing, maybe it will help someone in a similar situation.
 

Yar.

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Jun 17, 2008
Messages
93
Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

Greg,

I think I have the answer for you! Sell the guns you don't use and use the cash to fix the boat! How can a diver not appreciate the need for a strong boat!!:p

I have a garage full of assorted stuff too so I shouldn't say a whole lot:redface: including a newly aquired kitesail that I may kill myself on...

Whatever you decide to do, the guys on here are more than happy to lend a helping post. Good luck with school, I am a process control nerd myself!

There are a few posts on here for guys that have done inexpensive roller jobs on their decks that have turned out super! Have a snoop around as I can't recall the post names at the moment.....

Cheers,
Yar.
 

redfury

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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

With the run on guns and ammo, you could snag a pretty penny for what you have got too! :D
 
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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

Yeah i've thought about that. It's tough in NJ though, and its really not enough to do all the paperwork for.

I'm going to the MVC tomorrow to transfer the title of the boat, some epoxy and fiberglass is on order, AC plywood is waiting at the lumber yard. Can't forget about the foam. Was thinking of using froth-pak, any thoughts on it?
 

redfury

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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

The foam isn't 100% necessary, but putting it in is still a good idea for a catastrophy. What's frothpack?

I like the idea of using something that traps air, like 1/2 gallon OJ containers sealed up tight and set with a dab of PL so they don't shift around.
 
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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

Froth Pak - http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=80&
It just seems easier than mixing and pouring. Also I removed the foam on either side of the transom on the inside, I think you can see it in the pics. It was painted grey. Not waterlogged but hey if I have the stuff....

While were at it, what's PL?

Also figured i'd share this site:
http://store.creative-wholesale.com/Home/tabid/201/Default.aspx
It seems like they have a pretty good price on stuff, at least a few dollers off other sites.
 

redfury

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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

Ah, spray foam is awesome...wish I had sprayed my basement ceiling with it before I sheetrocked for sound insulation.

PL is essentially a subfloor or deck adhesive. It's a murky brown colored caulking type glue....construction adhesive. PL premium is a proven marine grade substitute for 3M 5200 adhesive, which is not nearly as cheap as the PL Premium.
 

Yar.

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Jun 17, 2008
Messages
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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

Hey Greg,

I haven't been on here in a bit.... I looked at the foam and I couldn't tell if it is closed cell. You want closed cell for sure or you will have a giant sponge in your boat!!! I used a 2 part foam and it was a pain but at least I know it is the right stuff!

Keep us posted with your progress!!!

Cheers,
Yar.
 

special_kaye

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 5, 2009
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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

So many questions!

Don't let yourself become overwhelmed. Yes, it's big project now. But, take one step at a time and you're golden. These forum dwellers have tons of knowledge and will practically walk you through every step if you do your research and look at the threads already posted. Good luck.
 
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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

Thanks special_kaye. From the time I started this thread/project i've leraned about as much as boats as possible in this amount of time. As an update, the stringers have been reinforced, the sides of the hull have been cleaned on the insides in preparation for the deck, I found a stainless steel transom reinforcement that I'm going to put on the back, I've got the boat and trailer titled/registed, trailer hitch on the car, boating safety course out of the way, trailer leaf springs, axel and hub on order, rollers fixed up, trailer winch cable replaced, electrical work all diagrammed out and parts on order, etc. I've really come a long way (i think), and have a clear picture of the rest of this project. It's still no small task but I have a much clearer idea of what and how things need to be done. I guess I'll keep posting updates here and there as I go if the mods don't mind me keeping this thread going a bit.

The next big hurdle as I see it is the motor. I've looked into new ones (70hp = ~ $7,000) and decided to go for a used one instead (= ~ $2,750) for the reasons I listed a post or to ago (see also: not keeping this boat forever). So again thanks to everyone for keeping me going and I'll be sure to update when the deck is on at least.
 
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Re: Restoring 1978 Glastron, in over my head!

Yar,
The foam in there problly was open, only becuase it did look/act like a giant sponge! I got a bunch of frothpak (2 part spary foam) and will be using that when it's time to deck it.
 
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