Rusty U-Joints

[hacrwj]

Read several posts regarding this but still in need of some help. I recently purchased a 2000 FourWinns Horizon 190 with Volvo SX Drive. The local Marina just pulled the drive and found water in the bellows. The Gimbal bearing appears to be Seized and the U-Joints are rusty. The shop is recommending new Gimbal Bearing, Bellows (Drive & Exhaust) and U-Joints. While I verified the Gimbal bearing appears to be siezed I am confused as I had just drove the boat a few days earlier and everything seemed fine.

My real concern is if I should change the U-Joints and the Exhaust Bellows. The U-Joints do have some surface rust but no real pitting or other visual damage. The boat was used in the midwest (never in salt water). Why should I have to change the U-Joints? Also, if they did fail wouldn't I feel some vibration first? Secondly, why change the exhaust bellows? It looks fine. What purpose does this serve other than to pass exhaust through the drive.

Lastly, the total cost is $1,325 ($350 U-Joints, $55 for each bellows and $55 for the Gimbal assy and $700 labor).

 

[meesh]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

If water was in there and your u joints are rusty, I would change them. Water gets into the needle bearings in them and it's only a matter of time after that. While you have it apart why not change the exhaust bellows along with the drive bellows? Your already paying the labor to pull it apart, it only makes sense to do it right. Look at the blue signature line at the bottom of Dons posts and you will understand what I mean. Oh yeah, if you had water intrusion the gimbal bearing is done as well.

 

[hacrwj]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

Thanks for the advice...your right Don's signature says it all. One last question, does the price (labor & parts) seem right or am I getting fleeced?

 

[ShaneCarroll]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

Those prices are outrageous!! I found a gimbal bearing kit for a MerCruiser Alpha One Gen II, which contains: gimbal bearing, 2 ujoints, gasket, o rings, and I also bought the drive shaft bellows and paid $98 on eBay. I am not sure whether this guy sells stuff for VP, but it's worth a shot. The user name is jhall019 and his eBay store is Jim's Marine. Give him a shout.

 

[ken_23434]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

You can look up the part prices right here on this website. The Mercruiser u-joints for my Alpha 1 are usually listed about $50 each. From my research, a lot of people get by using a $10 or $15 automotive application one from the local Napa or similar. I would not think the Volvo parts are THAT much more expensive.

The Gimbal Bearing price is about what I have seen for Mercruiser name brand. The Sierra one is normally about $35. So, the price on that part seems in the correct ballpark to me.

Once again, I am quoting a Mercruiser kit, but the Sierra transome kit for my outdrive runs about $125 to $150 depending on where I look. That includes a gimbal bearing, the u-joint bellows, exhaust bellows, shift bellows, and the gasket kit. Throw in an extra $70 for 2 Sierra U-joints. So, $200 for Sierra parts to do that job on a Mercruiser. I would think the Volvo would be very comparable.

The quote I got last year for replacing a Gimbal Bearing was about $700 in labor at the local marina. The labor rate at marinas and car dealerships are pretty high.

The job has been done by many people on this board. So, it's doable for the average "home mechanic" with the time and some tools.

 

[ShaneCarroll]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

Another thing to consider, most people would be glad to do it for a much lower price if the outdrive is already removed. At least that's what most people around here say.

 

[meesh]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

The ujoint price seems way out there, I would question that. As for the bellows and bearing my guess is they are not that far off, especially if they are OE parts. I don't know anything about volvo, I can only compare to my own Mercruiser. As far as bringing in your own parts, the dealer may or may not let you do that. I'm in the auto business and when someone walks into my shop with his own parts, the labor goes way up to cover what I'm losing on parts, and I don't guarantee his parts, only my own. Mechanics have to make money on parts because they lose many times on labor. Bringing in your own parts is like bringing your own food to Mcdonalds.

 

[boatguya1]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

$350 for u-joints? Maybe they're selling you a yoke/yoke shaft/u-joint assy although off the top of my head that sounds low for the assy. Even Volvo doesn't charge $175ea for u-joints.

$700 for labor on an SX? Sounds to me like they are adding up flat rate times for the various jobs without subtracting for things they only have to do once since they are doing more than one job. Once I have the drive off for the bellows I don't charge to take the drive off for the u-joints then charge to take the drive off for the gimbal brg. Or they could have a high hourly. Depending on how ugly it looked I'd est 5-6 hrs most likely 5 at $95hr. And yes we are a factory authorised Volvo service only dealer.

One thing to remember is I have not seen the boat so there could be more to it. Also I'm a big fan of OEM bellows, Line up a merc a volvo and a sierra u-joint bellows next to each other and tell me what you'd want on your boat. In a pinch I'll go sierra but you spend a lot in labor, might as well get the most life out of it.

James

 

[boatguya1]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

The ujoint price seems way out there, I would question that. As for the bellows and bearing my guess is they are not that far off, especially if they are OE parts. I don't know anything about volvo, I can only compare to my own Mercruiser. As far as bringing in your own parts, the dealer may or may not let you do that. I'm in the auto business and when someone walks into my shop with his own parts, the labor goes way up to cover what I'm losing on parts, and I don't guarantee his parts, only my own. Mechanics have to make money on parts because they lose many times on labor. Bringing in your own parts is like bringing your own food to Mcdonalds.

I like the McD's reference. I use it when people try to bargain with me on the price. You don't go into McDonalds and try to get a better deal on a whopper do you? When possible I'll offer cheaper routes to get back on the water, but only with a full explanation of why you should do it my way and a signed note of it on the work order.

James

 

[boatguya1]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

Read several posts regarding this but still in need of some help. I recently purchased a 2000 FourWinns Horizon 190 with Volvo SX Drive. The local Marina just pulled the drive and found water in the bellows. The Gimbal bearing appears to be Seized and the U-Joints are rusty. The shop is recommending new Gimbal Bearing, Bellows (Drive & Exhaust) and U-Joints. While I verified the Gimbal bearing appears to be siezed I am confused as I had just drove the boat a few days earlier and everything seemed fine.

My real concern is if I should change the U-Joints and the Exhaust Bellows. The U-Joints do have some surface rust but no real pitting or other visual damage. The boat was used in the midwest (never in salt water). Why should I have to change the U-Joints? Also, if they did fail wouldn't I feel some vibration first? Secondly, why change the exhaust bellows? It looks fine. What purpose does this serve other than to pass exhaust through the drive.

Lastly, the total cost is $1,325 ($350 U-Joints, $55 for each bellows and $55 for the Gimbal assy and $700 labor).

Many times u-joints will make noise prior to real failure. Sometimes not. If you really fail, as in break, a u-joint it will tear up some very expensive stuff while the motor is swinging it around in there.


James

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

For $350, they are more than likely replacing the yoke assembly. The Volvo price on the individual joints is around $60. If there is corrosion on the shaft as it goes into the drive near the seal area, I can see why they are telling you to replace the whole assembly.

I wouldn't bother replacing the exhaust bellows unless they are really torn and I would rather replace it with a tube than putting on another bellows.

The labor seems a little high but maybe they are going to be pressure testing the drive and other things that you don't mention here.

 

[IVAZ]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

I like the McD's reference. I use it when people try to bargain with me on the price. You don't go into McDonalds and try to get a better deal on a whopper do you? When possible I'll offer cheaper routes to get back on the water, but only with a full explanation of why you should do it my way and a signed note of it on the work order.

James

Dude Burger King sells the Whopper not McDonalds.
hacrwj,
You should consider doing it yourself. I was the same way. I wanted to just take it to somebody but after realizing that some of those items have to get changed periodically, I changed my mind. You will get help here from some very experienced people (I?m not in that category). You either have to pay the piper and not complain or learn yourself. I did not have to do bellows but I did change gimbal bearing, U joints and water pump in the drive. The gimbal bearing does suck (second time I do it I?m sure it will be easier). Buy the gimbal bearing driver and alignment tool and you will still save some money if you do it yourself. I?m glad I did my own and got to add some tools to my box.

 

[boatguya1]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

Dude Burger King sells the Whopper not McDonalds.
hacrwj,
You should consider doing it yourself. I was the same way. I wanted to just take it to somebody but after realizing that some of those items have to get changed periodically, I changed my mind. You will get help here from some very experienced people (I?m not in that category). You either have to pay the piper and not complain or learn yourself. I did not have to do bellows but I did change gimbal bearing, U joints and water pump in the drive. The gimbal bearing does suck (second time I do it I?m sure it will be easier). Buy the gimbal bearing driver and alignment tool and you will still save some money if you do it yourself. I?m glad I did my own and got to add some tools to my box.

Doh!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whopper/Quarterpounder/colesterol bomb I enjoy them all.

James

 

[gshldon]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

Like many of you, i was in the same boat so to speak, when my ujoints bellows tore last summer and was letting water into the boat i used the boat only a few times after that and was ready to take it into a dealer and have them fix it but then decided to tackle the problem myself, i did find the parts on ebay from jhall as someone else had mentioned earlier, and it included everything i needed with the exception of the seal behind the gimble bearing, so after reading alot of threads on here ( very helpful i might add) and also doing some research on the net and also asking a mechanic at my local dealer, i found the job to not be as bad as i thought it would be as long as you take your time and watch what you are doing. i replaced all bellows, bearing seal and ujoints just so i know that they are all done and now i wont have to worry about them this year and know that with maintenance they will be just fine. My motor is a mercruiser 898 and with a alpha drive that is a 1979 and all parts were original. I am more confident that i will not have a failure while on the water.

Just my 2 sense worth. Hope it helps.

 

[WorldOfJohnboy]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

I have a related issue, but unlike the others, I don't have to worry about my gimble or bellows.

My Mercruiser 3.0L Alpha One drive was toasted... upper gears got so warn that one was nearly smooth (you can't tell that there were teeth on it)!

Anyway, I found a nice replacement outdrive from a boat for parts. (I only paid $400 for the entire thing!) Since I was mainly interested in the outdrive, I first drained the gear lube and it was clean as a whistle (no metal flakes, no discoloration/water). Looked at the gears, they look like brand new and the bearings were in just as good, if not better shape. The ONLY thing wrong with it that I can see is that when I took off the drive from the gimble, the bellows/gimble had collected some water and it put some surface rust on the U-joints.

I know that I could (with the right tools) take them off and just put my own back on, but is there any reason why I couldn't also take them, and using vinegar, steel wool and/or wire brush and clean them up while I am at it to have as a backup? I am purchasing som new lube/grease, so after I clean it, I would grease them and store them. As long as there are no pits, indents, and/or cross bearing damages, is it OK to clean and keep?

 

[WorldOfJohnboy]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

I have a related issue, but unlike the others, I don't have to worry about my gimble or bellows.

I know that I could (with the right tools) take them off and just put my own back on, but is there any reason why I couldn't also take them, and using vinegar, steel wool and/or wire brush and clean them up while I am at it to have as a backup? I am purchasing som new lube/grease, so after I clean it, I would grease them and store them. As long as there are no pits, indents, and/or cross bearing damages, is it OK to clean and keep?

Sorry to bump this again, but I am about to go on a trip and want to know if anyone has any thoughts/tips/etc. on cleaning the u-joints/bearings and re-using them? Is it possible to grease the joints and salvage them?

 

[Maclin]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

"any thoughts/tips/etc. on cleaning the u-joints/bearings and re-using them"


Don't.

Why would you once you have them out and all apart? Putting worn parts back in after all the labor it takes to get them out is not a good idea. If you have no issues with u-joints leave them alone.

 

[cooter2506]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

Replace them you will have a better piece of mind while out on the water. Instead of thinking about it every time your turn the wheel or trim the outdrive.

 

[WorldOfJohnboy]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

Understood, but can I recondition them to use as backups?

 

[Maclin]

Re: Rusty U-Joints

U-Joints are not an item that can be re-conditioned. Re-use at your own peril.