Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

lawyertob

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

Originally posted by 12Footer:<br /> Yes, but have you ever put resin on styrofoam? Eww...Yukky.
12Footer,<br /><br />Yes, that is yucky...not mention that styrofoam is VERY flammable.<br /><br />Another $0.02 worth,<br />Joe
 

swimmin' for shore

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

Seems to be popular opinion that resin will encapsulate the foam pretty well. I love the idea, in theory, but at current prices....you get the picture. Joe would be happy to run the numbers for you. :) My estimate is over 4,000 for the complete restoration, in my case.<br />Joe, I was figuring on foil, also. I think I'm going to stick with plain old foam, though. I work for the government, and I can't seem to swing an approval to order epoxy resin through the Navy's stock system.
 

a_bullfrog_a

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Nov 23, 2004
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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

Now that everybodies minds are open. I've got a<br />a 14 foot mgf gyspsy tri-hull that I've used <br />bottles and greatstuff in. Here's the reasoning.<br />Foam is used because of the tiny air bubbles it creates helping things float. Down to the basics air is lighter then water. Now with the recapped, co2 added(which will eventually escape out of<br />the bottle), bottles you get GIANT, 24oz water tight BUBBLES. Laid bottles as tight together as possible so little foam was needed. The only reason only five cans of greatstuff is used is to<br />glue it all together nicely and to help prevent<br />bottles from rattling. <br /><br /> The space between the floor and the bottom of my boat is only 3in at most. so there was no stuctural value to the old foam. It was only laid down the middle between the 2 stringers and small amount on the sides. The bottles that I now have in place take up much more space then what I removed. <br /> If one of the bottles gets a small hole in it<br />It might not fill with water becouse of the vacuum<br />effect. If it gets 2 holes in it I still have 99<br />other giant bubbles (bottles)or in the case <br />of titanic; compartments, LOL.<br />does this make sense to anyone else? sometimes<br />I have a hard time explaining things clearly.<br /> For me it wasn't much to do with cost but more<br />about being creative and maybe even doing it<br />better then they did in 1978 when they cheaply<br />mass produced the boat. Before I even read any <br />post on foam I had removed all old water logged <br />foam and thought there must be something better<br />then this crap and being I work for pepsi, bottles<br />popped into mind. Thought I had something<br />original till I started reading the forum, LOL.
 

lawyertob

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

Originally posted by a_Bullfrog_a:<br /> Now that everybodies minds are open. I've got a 14 foot mgf gyspsy tri-hull that I've used <br />bottles and greatstuff in. . . . The bottles that I now have in place take up much more space then what I removed. For me it wasn't much to do with cost but more about being creative and maybe even doing it better then they did in 1978 when they cheaply mass produced the boat. Before I even read any post on foam I had removed all old water logged foam and thought there must be something better then this crap and being I work for pepsi, bottles popped into mind. Thought I had something original till I started reading the forum, LOL.
Well Bullfrog, whatever floats your boat. (Been wanting to say that since I started this thread ;) ) It probably would have cost you about the same to use marine foam, but I see your argument that the bottles shouldn't absorb water...but they could leak and take in water which is pretty much the same thing. However, with 100 watertight compartments I think you probably have a better chance than the Titanic...of course, the problem with the Titanic's water tight compartments was that they weren't water tight.<br /><br />In my particular case, I do need some structure from the foam. I have a tri-hull design and the plywood deck simply sits on the stringers (all two of them) and then rests on the upper curve of the hull between the middle V and the outer V's. In front of my chines the outer 6 or 7 inches of the deck had no support under it. At the outer edge, the deck is 2 inches above the bottom hull and just suspended by a layer of cloth that tied the deck to the hull. In fact, the curves of the hull themselves allowed some flexing of the floor. By tyeing it all together with 4 pound foam it will be much stronger and stiffer. I will probably also add some plywood strips along that 2 inch deep outer edge for solid support. It's either that or learn not to walk close to the edge of the floor. ;) Basically, I am looking forward to tyeing up at a marina somewhere...and when I get back in the boat I am just going to jump in...and watch all the surprised looks from people when I don't go right through the deck like I would on a regular floor. :) BTW, I am a pretty big guy, so people really will expect me to go through the floor. ;) <br /><br />Just my $0.02 worth,<br />Joe
 

lawyertob

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

Originally posted by swimmin' for shore:<br /> Seems to be popular opinion that resin will encapsulate the foam pretty well. I love the idea, in theory, but at current prices....you get the picture. Joe would be happy to run the numbers for you. :) My estimate is over 4,000 for the complete restoration, in my case.<br />Joe, I was figuring on foil, also. I think I'm going to stick with plain old foam, though. I work for the government, and I can't seem to swing an approval to order epoxy resin through the Navy's stock system.
Swimmin',<br /><br />I think I might have run enough numbers for a while...this thread has turned into a beast. ;) <br /><br />As for Navy resin...well, take a couple of cans of the old coffee...the inspection shack has got to be full of the stuff, and go see whoever orders stuff for whatever department might use resin. I was the RPPO on one of my subs and one shore assignment...trust me, those guys can figure out how to order ANYTHING. One time we ordered a 50 foot silk Russian flag..called it "lint free rags" on the 1348. We would have gotten away with it, but the NSN had some sort of diplomatic header on the number and our chop used to work at an embassy. Otherwise he never would have figured it out.<br /><br />All that being said, I can honestly say that I never took the chance of getting anything for personal use. We ordered lots of stuff to make life easier in engineering, and some stuff just for the heck of it...but the price of resin is NOTHING compared to the price of getting caught using Navy resin.<br /><br />Heck, I was just thinking the other day about how we had stainless tubing and stainless swage fittings laying around everywhere in the hydro testing shack...I almost wish some of them had followed me home, but since they didn't, I don't have to worry about bending over to pick up the soap if I drop it. However, I am having a hard time finding the tubing and fittings in the real world. Apparently in the real world not everything is made out of monel and such. ;) <br /><br />Another $0.02 worth,<br />Joe
 

jimmythekid

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

what are the 500.00 toilet seats nade of??
 

jimmythekid

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

made of i suk st typining (hee hee)
 

18rabbit

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Nov 14, 2003
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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

Originally posted by Joe Glastron T186:<br /> ... Another $0.02 worth
Well, you are up to 33 cents worth, so far. That’s 3 and 1/3 ping-pong balls that you could have bought and buried in foam. :p
 

lawyertob

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

Originally posted by 18rabbit:<br />
Originally posted by Joe Glastron T186:<br /> ... Another $0.02 worth
Well, you are up to 33 cents worth, so far. That’s 3 and 1/3 ping-pong balls that you could have bought and buried in foam. :p
18rabbit,<br /><br />That depends on whether you are the buyer or the seller. IOW, people usually only offer a "penny for your thoughts" but when giving their thoughts for free most people value them at "two cents worth". There is a market discrepancy there somewhere. ;) <br /><br />Just another $0.02 worth,<br />Joe
 

JustMrWill

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

At 140 posts...isn't he up to $2.80??<br /><br />-JustMrWill
 

swimmin' for shore

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

Joe, now you know you can't go telling all of these good taxpayers here that I could be using their tax dollars to fill out 1348-1's and ordering 500 dollar toilet seats, titanium props, or monel anchors. People will be coming for me like the frankenstein monster mentioned in earlier posts. <br />Jimmy, I've checked on your toilet seat question in times past. I believe it safe to assume that it won't be considered classified information for me to pass on to you that they're made of "fire retardant" plastic. There are lots of things made from this. Many things are made from fire retardant materials, and although I think that is a good thing, it's hard not to laugh at some of the outlandish prices. As I do not want to be keel-hauled or forced to walk the plank, I'll stop there. <br />Back to the question at hand, I'm going over this in a little more depth here, and have another thought. Seeing as how your foam isn't totally waterproof, yet your deck is supposed to be enclose. What's the problem with doing smaller batches of foam in a Glad bag or something, tying it off, and placing it between the stringers to rise? There's no reason, unless you make too much foam for a single bag, that you should ever end up with holes in a heavy plastic bag, and it's much cheaper than resin. It's also little enough work if it provided peace of mind. I hate to get out of hand here and go TOO far overboard, but it seems like less work than some of the other ideas for encapsulating foam that I've seen in this and a couple of other posts.
 

swimmin' for shore

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

Jimmy, I realized right after I posted the 1st message, that I have it wrong. The plastic, particularly, which is used in toilet seats for the government and PVC for our urinals, is not flame retardant. It's SUPPOSED to be non-toxic when it melts. Apparently the pvc in your home is going to kill you if it catches on fire. <br /> :( <br />With respect for all of Joe's hard labor in looking up numbers for the benefit of all concerned :) I also took the time to explore my supply program. The price of toilet seats is down to under 20 dollars now. However, I did not check the price of pencils. I'm supposed to be working here.
 

JustMrWill

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

I got it!!! Take all those 20oz bottle and fill them with helium!! That way you can have a lighter boat too!! :) Sorry...couldn't resist.<br /><br />-JustMrWill
 

jimmythekid

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

If my boat ever catches on fire Ill go sit on the porta potty that way I know ill be safe:)
 

jimmythekid

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

P.S. by the way, does anyone know the record number of posts in a single thread
 

18rabbit

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Nov 14, 2003
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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

JTK – for this web site it might have been the discussion/debate on evolution down in the dockside chat forum. Caution: it can be a sewer in there at times.
 

lawyertob

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

Originally posted by JustMrWill:<br /> At 140 posts...isn't he up to $2.80??<br /><br />-JustMrWill
MrWill,<br /><br />Nah, see post a few up...Sometime I offer a penny for other's thoughts and sometimes I just plain old say thanks. In fact, I seem to do a lot of that, because I sure get a lot of information on here. So if I haven't said thanks lately, here it is.<br /><br />Thanks again,<br />Joe
 

swimmin' for shore

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Oct 25, 2004
Messages
490
Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

I did an ebay search. You can buy 288 pingpong balls for 19.00, as the market is flooded with them. At that price, it would cost you 3958.33, plus shipping. I think if you buy more slowly, from people who don't have reserves, you could cut that price in half. I lost my bid for 40 cu. ft. of pourable foam to some snipe, but he paid 240 for 40 cu. ft. of 2 lb. pourable urethane foam. Delivered. That'll float 2400 lbs. of dead weight, which is more than my boat will ever weigh. I don't catch that many fish. I think the foam is cheaper yet. :)
 

jimmythekid

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Re: Saving money on foam: bottles and other bad ideas.

18 rabbit: I used to live in michigan, if its a sewer ill probly feel right at home. :)
 
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