solder vs crimp

swist

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Marine environments are so hostile that sometimes they defy logic. Marine grade wire is "tinned" throughout its length, even under the insulation. The theory, I believe, is that corrosive water vapor (i.e. salt) can be drawn up the wire by capillary action and eat copper over time. This sort of makes sense to me.<br /><br />What doesn't make sense is a recommendation that leads be crimped, but NOT soldered to the various types of connectors (spade, barrel, etc). I don't know where I saw this but isn't a soldered connection always better? If memory serves, it was also a corrosion issue of some kind?
 

crazy charlie

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Re: solder vs crimp

Solder your radio and tv,everything on a boat should be crimped.I believe it is also a CG reg. Charlie
 

Ralph 123

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jlinder

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Re: solder vs crimp

Solder works for electronics where you need small items connected. But:<br /><br />1. Solder does not guarantee a good very low resistance connection. "Cold solder" joints can occur where the flux is part of the joint which give a high resistance connection. Crimp connections put metal to metal with high pressure.<br /><br />2. Solder does not give a mechanically secure connection. Crimping holds the wire tight, solder can break free.<br /><br />Solder is not approved for any power connections that I know of, on water or land
 

Peter J Fraser

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Re: solder vs crimp

Adding solder to the joint can increase the resistance in the joint but worse is that its acid residues lead to corrosion later.<br />Get some battery terminal protector spray and apply to the crimped joint and if you can apply some glue lined heat shrink tubing after the sealer has cured a little.<br />The joint will then be almost bullet proof.<br /><br />Good luck,<br /><br />Peter
 

crab bait

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Re: solder vs crimp

crimp an then solder for the best trouble-free connection..<br /><br />i buy the non-plastic barrel kind..( red,blue,yellow ect ) if i do use them,, i cut the plastic off 'em first..then crimp an solder..
 

swist

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Re: solder vs crimp

I meant crimped PLUS soldered in the original post. Why wouldn't that be a superior connection?
 

ThomWV

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Re: solder vs crimp

I have always crimped and soldered, but I also follow that up with a little daub of 5200 and then shrink fit over top of that. I have never had one of these joints fail.<br /><br />Thom
 

18rabbit

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Re: solder vs crimp

Regs are that solder cannot be the only means of connection.* You can crimp a connection then apply solder, if you want to, tho it doesn’t really get you anything, except more work, possible damage from over heating conductor or terminal with the soldering gun/iron. Solder-only connections have two weak points; (1) most common is vibration. Over the long run, solder cannot hold up to the vibrations on a boat. It can break. (2) Over-current situations can cause solder to melt. If either of these situations happens you have the potential for a live wire flopping around that could start you boat burning. Often, you can run away from a fire on terra firma. On a boat there is nowhere to run.<br /><br />Done properly, crimping is better than soldering for electrical connection and has other advantages as well, no heat, quick, clean, etc. Crazy Charlie is correct…yesterday. :) Soldered terminals on coax were always a better connection. All that has changed in the last few years and, again…if done properly, the crimp connectors for coax are now as good as, or better than the old solder connections.<br /><br />Personally, I will not go back to soldering. I used to but there is simply no need to…IF you can crimp properly. I have never seen a proper crimp fail. Never.<br /><br />*There is an exception. As Ralph mentioned in his post above, battery lugs can be soldered to battery cable without any crimping IF the soldered area is not longer than 1 ½-times the diameter of the battery cable. You can get battery cable lugs that are primed with solder and all you do is slide the appropriately sized lug onto your cable and apply heat. I don’t use them. I crimp battery cables as well.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: solder vs crimp

If you use a good double ratcheting crimper and good high quality terminals and wire (ancor marine) solder isn't really necessary - If you are using cheap crimpers and terminals (Don't) I would solder. I think that is why people can't believe they are better than soldering - a cheap terminal crimped with a cheap tools is not a great connection.<br /><br />I second Thom's advice about a little 5200 or RTV with your shrink - gives you a nice water-tight connection. If you buy Ancor's shrink, it is already in the shrink and activates when you apply heat.<br /><br />Believe it or not, there is very Little soldering used in A&D applications (which is very similar to marine reqs)- mostly highly quality mechanical connections (with specific use crimp tools). When soldering is done (I'm talking about connectors now, not CC coated circuit boards) it is done by trained techs and inspected under magnification. That's my experience anyway.<br /><br />[edit] Not that I am shilling for Ancor, but their tag line is "a lasting solution" when you use high quality cmponents like they sell, that is exactly what you get.
 

kd6nem

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Re: solder vs crimp

One note about using RTV to seal electrical- some sorts of silicone sealers used to give off acetic acid while they cure, hence the vinegary odor. Not sure about the current varieties, but any acetic acid in contact with copper will cause a bit of unwanted corrosion. Be careful which sealer you use.<br /><br />I echo Ralph's comments about the need for a ratcheting crimper if you want it done properly. (Besides, what guy can resist having just one more neat & fun good quality tool?) :)
 

crab bait

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Re: solder vs crimp

the solder after the crimp is to make it one solid componet... so no oxidation ( greenies) can get in it/onit/around it/up in it..<br /><br />that bein' said,, no shrink, silicone, 5200 is wanted or needed..
 

JB

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Re: solder vs crimp

I prefer liquid electrical tape to 5200 for sealing wire connections.
 

KaGee

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Re: solder vs crimp

Originally posted by JB:<br /> I prefer liquid electrical tape to 5200 for sealing wire connections.
Right on JB. 3M 5200 is primarily a polyurethane adhesive caulk. It's not intended for electrical insulation uses.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: solder vs crimp

The idea of using 5200 or silicone is to help ensure a water tight seal between the shrink and the insulation - not the wire. If you use a marine grade insulated connector and tinned marine wire, a piece of shrink ensures moisture won't be pulled up the wire in any space that may exist between the insulation and the start of the connector by adhering the shrink to the insulation of the wire and the insulation of the connector.<br /><br />You do this when you are too cheap to buy adhesive lined shrink made by companies like Ancor or you just have a little work to do and have none on hand...<br /><br />Liquid tape is excellent for insulating connections like on a bus bar or alike. Any metal-to-metal situation.
 

Stumpknocker

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Re: solder vs crimp

Bought a pair of the double ratcheting crimpers mentioned by Ralph earlier in this thread. Wow what a difference. Now I have to go back and redo lots of connections to bring them all up to speed. There really is no comparison to using regular pliers ect. Kudos to Ralph!
 

jlinder

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Re: solder vs crimp

After you crimp there are a couple of ways to keep the connection dry and sealed.<br /><br />You can buy shrink tubing that has an adhesive on the inside that is heat activated. Once put on it seals water tight. I have used this on wires and connections that were outside exposed to all the elements. After 3-4 years I had to access the connection and it was the same as the day it was made.<br /><br />The other is a kind of electrical tape that is very thick and rubbery. It provides a nice seal. I have used this then covered with regular shrink to keep it in place. This works well too.<br /><br />If you need one of them and can't find it let me know. I might be able to steer you to the right spot.
 

lawyertob

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Re: solder vs crimp

Okay, I give up. What is a DOUBLE ratcheting crimper? I found ratcheting ones, and they sound great, but I want the best, because I HATE fighting with crimp connectors.<br /><br />Wondering,<br />Joe
 

Indymike

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Re: solder vs crimp

Joe look here web page click on online tool cat. then Strippers, Cutters, Crimpers .<br />Available thru local electrical supply house. peerless, wesco,ged etc. maybe even lowes.<br />I'm an electrician and klein is top notch.<br /><br />Mike
 
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