solenoid and spark plugs

[spartanpele]

This past weekend I took my 1987-85hp Force to the lake for a test run. I came back with mixed results. <br /><br />It ran fine for a while, although it seemed to lack any top end speed as I could only get my boat (17 ft Bayliner cuddy) up to 30mph. During the slower speeds of no-wake zones, the engine was dogging. I figured that was because the exhaust tube seal wasn't installed and it was killing itself idling slow in the dirty water/exhaust. (The exhaust tube seal is one of my next projects.)<br /><br />Eventually I decided to head back to shore as it was starting to sound rough and idling poor. By the time we got to the dock, the engine had died. I loaded it up on the trailer and took a look at the plugs, fuel filter and other misc hoses. Everthing seemed fine, so I put her back in the water, and she failed to start. Having had enough of the inconsistent motor, I headed for home.<br /><br />Once home I hooked up the muffs and tried to see if she would start. She not only wouldn't start, but, wouldn't kick over either. After several troubling shooting items, I noticed a gas recirculation hose that wasn't connected, and, the ignition key was still in the on position!<br /><br />I turned off the key and connected the vacuum hose. After checking the battery charge, I tried to turn over the motor. The motor wouldn't turn over and the dash panel wouldn't light up when turning the key. <br /><br />Q: Is it possible to burn out a solenoid if the key is left in the start position, battery attached, while trailering and towing the boat all the way home? If I "jump" the solenoid I can get the starter to kick in, but otherwise, nothing, so I'm betting the solenoid is bad.<br /><br />My last question is about the spark plugs. The spark plugs I'm using are NGKs (BUHX). I suspect they're faulty and want to replace them. My manual states I should use Champion UL18V. I'm having a hard time finding those locally. <br /><br />Q: Can I use Champion L76V's? The L76V's are listed for practically every Force engine except the 85hp, and I'm wondering what the difference is and what would happen if I used the L7's.<br /><br />Sorry for the long rambling message...but this is a series of problems that are likley all related.

 

[chuckz]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

The key being on applies power to the accesories, not the starter solenoid. Check for loose connections on the starter solenoid.<br /><br />Those are the proper plugs for your engine. Use the right plugs. Order them online if you can't find them locally.<br /><br />Fix the exhaust boot before you do anything else.<br /><br />Was a vacuum hose or a recirculating hose off? That engine doesn't really have a recirculating system, it dumps excess fuel without recirculating it.<br /> <br />Take care of your maintenance problems before you start looking for faulty part. You may find the engine runs fine with everything connect properly.

 

[spartanpele]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

Chuck... With the key in the on position, I was unable to crank the starter. Yet when I would bypass the solenoid (jump from red wire to red wire), the starter would crank. Doesn't that infer a bad solenoid?<br /><br />I'll keep hunting for the correct plugs...<br /><br />The exhaust tube seal gasket is on order and I'm hoping to work on that this week.<br /><br />If that hose I connected wasn't part of a recirculation system, then I'm stumped as to what it was for. The hose came from the bottom of the power head and went to nothing...meanwhile... at the bottom of the intake manifold is a hose spigot that looks like a hose s/b attached to it. I assumed the two were related and attached the hose to the spigot. Is that wrong? Does that bottom spigot remain open? The Solec/Clymer manuals talk about a recirculation system and it would appear that any gas not burned would be recirculated back from the bottom of the power head back to the air intake to burn again. <br /><br />Hmm.... I'll have to keep investigating. Anyone else have some thoughts?

 

[chuckz]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

A bad solenoid or a bad connection from the key to the solenoid.<br /><br />The hose at the bottom of the powerhead, directly below the fuel pump, should go to the fuel pump (5/8"ID I think).<br /><br />The barb at the bottom of the intake manifold should go to the air box (3/16"ID)<br /><br />The Seloc manual covers many engines. I have the same engine. The manual talked about servicing the reciculating valves. When I pulled the intake manifold apart, there were no valves. Just passages that were connect to a hose barb about 2/3 of the way up that connected back to a fitting at the bottom of the powerheaad on the starboard side. This is a small 3/16"ID hose.<br /><br />Make sure you get the hoses straightened out before looking for other problems. The Seloc manual had some hose routing diagrams, but I'm not sure that they were all that useful. Post some picture and I'll check my engine and tell you where the hoses go.

 

[spartanpele]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

Chuck... I'll re eyeball my vacuum hoses and see where they go compared to Seloc. I agree, they show a lot of different models...so its hard to know what is or isn't relevant.<br /><br />btw: my engine is 856x7B

 

[chuckz]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

You're in luck, mine is the same model number.

 

[eurolarva]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

By leavimg the key in the on position you probably fried the points. They are not designed to take constant voltage and that is probably what drained your battery.

 

[spartanpele]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

I took some pics of the vacuum hoses last night. I'll post the pics once developed.<br /><br />The electrical problem is still on going. One thing I noticed last night that I didn't notice the night before is that the circuit breaker was tripped. I reset the breaker, but, the starter will still not move unless I bypass the solenoid with a jumper wire.<br /><br />When I try to start the engine without jumping the starter, the dash lights come on, it sounds as though the choke clicks, then nothing. After a couple times of this, the circuit breaker trips and then everything is dead.<br /><br />I still think its the solenoid...but will listen to other thoughts...<br /><br />eurolarva...you mentioned frying the points... when I think of points I think of a distributor from a car. On a boat motor...where would I be looking for that?

 

[chuckz]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

This engine does not have points.<br /><br />There is a yellow wire on a small terminal on the solenoid. If you jump from the red batery cable to the terminal with the yellow wire on it, the solenoid should pull in and the engine crank. If the solenoid doesn't pull in, it's bad.<br /><br />If it pulls in and the starter doesn't engage, while the solenoid is pulled in:<br />1. Check for voltage at the battery terminal of the starter solenoid, if no voltage you have a bad connection between the battery and the solenoid. <br />2. Check for voltage at the terminal the starter is connected to, if no voltage the solenoid is bad.<br /><br />3. Check for voltage at the starter, if no voltage you have a bad starter cable.<br /><br />You also need to find out why the breaker is tripping. It may or may not be related to the starter problem.

 

[spartanpele]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

Chuck...thanks for the info. <br /><br />What do you mean by the solenoid should "pull in".

 

[chuckz]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

It should click. This means the contact moved from the open to the closed position. In some other applications you can see the contact literally be pulled in to complete the circuit.

 

[spartanpele]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

Ah....got it.<br /><br />I think each of the times I've tested it, the solenoids never made a sound. I've seen the choke linkages move when depressing the start button in, but the solenoid hasn't made a sound. After 2-3 times of trying it, its then that the circuit breaker will trip. <br /><br />I'll go through the different tests you listed tonight...but its still sounding like the solenoid. I've got that on order already...so I just need it to come in if thats what it is.<br /><br />Thanks!

 

[chuckz]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

Just make sure that the solenoid is grounded. Without looking I don't recall if it's grounded through the mounting bolts or through a separate ground wire. I think I recall seeing a separate ground.

 

[spartanpele]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

I've got the pics developed and I've clearly marked the vacuum hose that I'm uncertain about. <br /><br />To anyone who knows....how do I post pics on this forum?

 

[spartanpele]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

Chuck... if you can send me your email address...I can send you the pics of the engine with arrows marking the hose that I'm unsure of. (I can't figure out how to post the pics otherwise.) <br /><br />I'm at home now, but will be able to send pics tomorrow during the day. I'll check back with the forum tomorrow morning...

 

[eurolarva]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

On your starter issue Your motor has a neutral interlock switch. Motor needs to be in neutral for starter to work. The switch should be connected to the tower via the shift cable. If it is not clicking or engaging the tower in neutral the starter will not start.

 

[spartanpele]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

Chuck...and anyone else who has a 1987 85hp Force (856x7B):<br /><br />Here are the two pics of the engine. I'm questioning the hose in both pics. (Its the same hose, just showing the two connecting points.) <br /><br />The first pic is the starboard side, with the arrow pointing to the bottom of the air intake. I saw what looked like a vacuum nipple and attached a hose that wasn't attached to anything. This is the location that I'm not sure about. (The green hose clamp is attached) <br /><br /> http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/spartanpele/85hpForce1.jpg <br /><br />Pic 2 shows the port side. The arrow points to the power head, below the starter area, where that same hose attaches. I attached this hose to the bottom of the air intake in pic 1. <br /><br /> http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/spartanpele/85hpForce2.jpg <br /><br />The question is...is this correct? Does this hose from the power head area below the starter go to the bottom of the air intake?<br /><br />Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[chuckz]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

That looks right.<br /><br />Eurolarva is correct. The small yellow wire gets power through the neutral safety switch. Have someone hold the key in the start position and check for power at the neutral safety switch. You can also put a clip lead across the switch to jump it out and see if that's your problem.

 

[spartanpele]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

Chuck...you're saying your hose situation looks just like the pics I have? <br /><br /><br />As for the electrical (euro/Chuck)... (I took a break from it last night in order to do the hose pics)...I'll reexamine the wires including the neutral safey switch and see what I come up with.<br /><br />Thanks guys!

 

[chuckz]

Re: solenoid and spark plugs

I believe that is a drain line. Mine is connected to the engine centered a bit more under the carbs. I don't think it's critical if it's connected or not.