Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

[chiefalen]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

Ok i have been looking at the pics real hard.

Where is the return hose to the fuel pump? Is it the plugged hole on the bottom of that carb?

If i am correct in that assumption, than fuel has no where to go but down in the carb into the manifold and past the rings into the oil pan.

This could be because of a bad seat, where the pin would not seal, or a bad float thats not holding air.

The oil level than must rise. Also another symptom would affect engine performance.

Solution: Take off the carb and rebuild it, install the return line to fuel pump.

Take off the cover of that fuel pump is the diaphram good? Leaking into the block from that way? Where the return line enters the fuel pump, Whats in that hole? Nothing, a plug?

Lets solve the fuel issue before we tackle the over heat condition.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

With the water getting into your oil, I would suspect either manifold and/or riser rotted out - or a cracked head /block - or a blown head gasket.

The droplets on your plugs are water - not gas.

With it overheating, that would point to the manifold / riser scenario. How old are they? And yes, you still need to pull the thermostat housing and check for pieces of the impeller.

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

Gas doesn't make oil milky. Water does. Sounds like you've got two separate problems. I'd start by rebuilding the carb, and checking the manifold thoroughly.

Hopefully it's not an internal engine problem, but if the engine was previously over-heated, it's likely to lose a head gasket...

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

you have a merc 120 engine

that's what you guys wanted to know? damn, I knew that...the paper work says 120/140... why the two numbers?

If it was a severe overheat you could have warped your head.

my head is def getting warped

Ok i have been looking at the pics real hard.

Where is the return hose to the fuel pump? Is it the plugged hole on the bottom of that carb?

If i am correct in that assumption, than fuel has no where to go but down in the carb into the manifold and past the rings into the oil pan.

This could be because of a bad seat, where the pin would not seal, or a bad float thats not holding air.

The oil level than must rise. Also another symptom would affect engine performance.

Solution: Take off the carb and rebuild it, install the return line to fuel pump.

Take off the cover of that fuel pump is the diaphram good? Leaking into the block from that way? Where the return line enters the fuel pump, Whats in that hole? Nothing, a plug?

Lets solve the fuel issue before we tackle the over heat condition.

I can't revisit the boat till mon eve.....never gave the plugged hole a second thought.. I have lots of advice here to chew on...
thanks

Anyone need this engine??
(jus kidding..i think)

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

That's not a plugged hole but two adjusting screws under the carb. My engine starts up and idles fine with the new plugs. I don't think I have a gas problem.

In a Hail Mary move, I removed the thermostat and ran the boat tonight. Let her idle for a while and it takes about 10 minutes to get out of the no wake zone...she was "ok"(I think this means little at this point). Once in the main body of the lake, the trim decided to act up, pushing the "in" button I got nothing, pushing the two "up" buttons the engine nearly shut down and the rpm gauge zoomed to max(the engine didn't follow suit, this was electrical). Ya know..this is all just great.
I'm keep an eye on the temp gauge, did a small loop and decided to head back to the dock figuring sooner or later my luck would run out with the tow backs I've been fortunate enough to land. The temp seemd "ok" but I didn't run her hard. I wanted to get back to see if the plugs had water on them and wanted to get back on my own power.

My trim problem....What would cause these two wires to melt and fuse together?

How much water is supposed to flow out of that tube when held vertical? I have water coming out of it with an overflow but not shooting up three inches or anything like that (did i read that this should be "spouting" water in geyser fashion?)

edit..I should add that in this pic i have two other hoses removed but my question is in regard to the intake hose that i've got sticking up

the last thing i want to research right now is how to post pics properly so bear with me...

I'm still thinking I have a bad head gasket or cracked manifold since I didn't get a chance to run her hard tonight...but humor me and tell me something good...
thanks


captJason...that "my head is def getting warped" is a joke. I have no idea yet wether the engine's head is warped yet. You'll have to put up with my sense of humor while I'm here..or not


i forgot to mention, i pulled a plug, second one in from front, it was dry, looked good but I guess a longer ride is needed...didn't have it in me to pull the others. ..went home

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

bumping for the electrical question in the pic...this is new.

 

[bolo78910]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

wow you remind me of me, the burnt wires you might have something ground out wires touching ect . on your over heating you might have a bad manifold/riser not every engine over heat gets a bad head gasket, sometimes you gets away with it, ???? when was the last time you change the manifold/risers .

last see if you can get a service manual for your engine, trust me its help a whole lot. by the way nice boat, and dont give up you wil get it fix, good luck also use the search features above there are always simular problem like yours you can learn from.

 

[Robj]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

I think your fuel problem can be solved by rebuilding the carb. If it has not been done recently, then it is probably due anyways.

Water in the oil, my first guess is a bad exhaust manifold. If that has not been changed in the last 5 years, it is probably overdue.

Depending on how bad the overheat was, that engine has a cast iron head and block, which is not as prone to eating head gaskets as an aluminum head would be. You may have gotten away lucky on that one. Do a compression check to be sure, then post the numbers.

Regarding the shorted out wires, those look like they were in contact with something hot which melted the insulation. It should be an easy fix and make sure you route it away from hot objects. Also use at least the same gage wire as was originally there. If there was a dead short somewhere else, the whole wire would be cooked, not just a short section.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

thanks for the replies

here's a before pic (taken last week) of the wires, red and black...they're just crossing each other, wouldn't there have to be a slice in the wires for these to melt like they did?

re pics
depending on the day or whatever, sometimes my pics are visible in the thread other than the attached thumbnails..and sometimes not
what's up with that?




and i searched and searched and couldn't find what i thought i read about how much flow of water is supposed to be" geysing" out....could'a sworn someone said something like "hold it vertical and there should be a three inch high spout of water

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

Same motor as mine. Heres what I would do.

1-Rebuild the carb.

2- Install the over flow hose back to the fuel pump from the carb that aint there. Next to the fuel inlet fitting is where it should be. If that is a marine carb should have a hole to stick that hose.

3-Remove the engine mounted water pump. Vanes there? If good reinstall, bad replace.

4-Remove t-stat housing, plugged up with rust? Bypass hole plugged with rust? Reinstall the t-stat or new t-stat correctly.

5-Remove manifold and riser. Plugged up with rust?

6- Did this boat have a flapper? If yes while riser is off check it. Not there
broke off clogging the exhaust?

7-I would do a full tune up if not done already.

8-Clean all the fuel filters, one in the fitting by the carb, one in the fuel pump,one in the fuel pickup tube in the tank,check the anti-siphon valve.

9-Pump out the internal tank.

10- Run it on a external tank anyway with fresh clean gas.

11- If all is well. And you go back to the internal tank after each run clean all the filters again. 3 times after each run.

12-Clean every connection, every ground, check every wire.

You ever do a compression check?

You could do a vacuum check will tell you everything. Heres a link.

http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/186.cfm

Good luck!

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

A rotted exhaust manifold an/or riser will allow water to get into cylinders, warping hot exhaust valves, loosing compression , possible hydro-locking the engine on the next start.

I believe one of your biggest problems is water fouled plugs caused by a warped cylinder head which was caused by the missing vanes off the impeller. Since these vanes were NOT found in the water hose leading to the engine, many times they travel INTO the cooling system and become lodged in the small holes between the cylinder block and the heaad, creating hot spots, overheating and warping the heat. Be VERY DILIGENT about fishing every piece out of the block while you have the head off and at the machine shop. These pieces will fall back down into the water jacket only to rise with the water flow and cause another flow restriction, leading to another warped head.

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

I want you to know I've been printing out your recommendations and bringing these to the boat for reference, so don't give up yet. The manual has been downloaded, difficult to find what I need readily just yet due to a browser search issue..
More pics, it's late so still not in tune with the proper download of pics but here's what I got.

took the boat out of the lake and put muffs on to see if cooling water is actually flowing through.
I didn't even notice until looking at this pic tonight that there appears to be a hole in that bellow. Which bellow is this and what is the implication?

I have water coming out of the exhaust ports with exhaust, water coming out of the prop (also with exhaust), and water coming out of a hole back of the lower end....besides what appears to be coming out that bellow

I went to remove the carburetor and this tube was found to have been broken. The break was unnoticeable being hidden by the fire protection lining, but could this be why she was running rich? The new plugs were black. What is the importance of this tube and the implication?

^^^^
I repaired the connection with a J-Weld type product. Before doing so as I looked into the hole I saw daylight...there was a hole on the "bottom" of the manifold directly in line with this broken tube. Is this supposed to be?....or is it a hole caused by rust?



I ran the boat in the lake tonight, I still have the thermostat removed, she didn't over heat but I noticed water dripping out of this connecting tube to the breather/filter after removing the rubber hose that comes out of the valve cover and connects to the breather/filter. The rubber hose also dripped water.

i'm not supposed to be seeing anything milky in here...what am I supposed to see here and why is water running up the rubber hose...it's not condensation, is it?

thanks,
(as you can see I'm reluctant to take the manifold and the head off just yet...and she seems to be running strong when she runs...no compression check yet though, bear with me)

 

[Maclin]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

The bellows pic appears to be of the bottom exhaust bellows, and they do have drain holes in them so that is not a worry.

The tube is the choke stove heater tube, it comes from a well in the manifold that has exhaust crossing over and passes the heat to the choke to pull it open as the engine heats up. Gotta have it or the choke will be slooooow to open up, and may not on short trips. Regarding the hole you can see thru on the bottom, not sure what that could be from but if it does go all the way thru then that will leak exhaust gases into the engine compartment.

The water coming out of the crankcase vent hose is condensation but that amount seems high, and could be an indication of lots of moisture in the crankcase.

The gunky milky oil showing on the baffle under the vent hole is not a good sign either, too much moisture there as well in my opinion.

 

[achris]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

Lots of different problems...

1. Choke heater riser is just a tube thru the exhaust manifold. If you can see daylight, that is good. No problems there.

2. Water in the oil... This is really bad. Stop messing around and bite the bullet. Take the manifold off. The more you run the engine in that condition the more damage you're doing.

3. Overheating... probably caused by the bad manifold, and/or a blocked exhaust elbow. The 120's manifold and elbow don't have a very long life. If it more than about 5 years old... trash-can time!!!

Chris............

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

I could be wrong but I think this manifold is 35 years old....I'm getting a hint that this could be a problem.

)))


ok. i guess i gotta do it....can i j weld the **** outta it? i wouldn't put it past me to try cause i gots no money to be dumping into this thing

 

[Robj]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

It is cast iron, and internally it is corroded and plugged. Cannot be repaired. Nobody said boating is cheap, did they?

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

I do not intend to be rude, but there is no button under the dash that you can push to make all this better. So, if you do not have any budget then just use it 'till it quits and stop looking so hard to find something wrong that you can't fix anyway....

 

[ziggy]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

after reading all that. i think ya gots mulitpule issues too.

fore most to me is get the water out of the engine. save the engine. read this..... http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Bullet/01/01_13.pdf.

decide where ya think where the water is coming from. i'd suspect ya need to R&R the manifold and riser if they're 35 years old..... at 30 years old for mine. they were bad. and i got water intrusion too. get the water out of it asap.

i doubt your fuel pump has the clear fuel line up to the carb. i'm conviced that in the older boats, up thru 76-78 round abouts were not equiped with this feature. replaceing the fuel pump will be the only option ya have if it don't have 3 fittings on the fuel pump. this would be an upgrade to a much safer version of fuel pump.

do get all the impeller pieces out of the system as stated before. i removed my lower and flushed front to back and back to ft. from the water tube to the manifold and visey versy. ya'd be surprised how many fragments can be traped between these two points.. do put a tstat back in it. not good to run w/o one as the cooling system requires one to be there. when your flushing ft. to back, look close at the waterpocket cover to see if water is coming out of the gasket around the waterpocket cover. if so that needs fixed too. and i assure you, don't even look at the waterpocket cover bolts as they will break off and you'll wish ya'd never touched them. they're ss scres, screwed into cast aluminim. break them off and ya may need a new upper houseing. so be real careful with that.

get onto that compression test. ya really need to know. if compression is not good. nothing ya do to it will make it happy.

a carb rebuild will probably be in order too.....

 

[achris]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

Ziggy, Me thinks we all floggin' a dead horse with this one. I agree with all ya said, but he's got no money to do anything... He certainly ain't gunna cough a grand for a new manifold and elbow.... That would solve the water AND the overheat...

 

[EarlyWood]

Re: Spewing Gas Into the Lake. Yeah Baby.

It is cast iron, and internally it is corroded and plugged. Cannot be repaired. Nobody said boating is cheap, did they?

Have a great day,

Rob.

Nobody said that
but this gem comes to mind

"If you can't afford a new set of points each year, then you deserve to have an engine that doesn't run."


Listen I hear all of yas and I'm learning the tricks by being here to zero in on the problems, so still don't give up. I looked hard for that button under the dash ( I fixed the blower problem while there)...

I've always been lucky. This isn't over till the fat lady sings.

I'll be back.

with pics.

with questions.


with J-weld


))